Ian Cole accused of grooming/sexually abusing a minor; Cole Suspended By Tampa Bay.

[swiftwin]

Out of curiosity, do you have any proof that the author of the "Emily Smith" post is even a female?

I don't think there's even enough substance to warrant a suspension here unless and until there is some tie to a bona fide complainant.

Do you have any proof that the NHL does not have enough substance for a suspension-with-pay? Do you know what kind of evidence the NHL does or does not have that isn't publicly available?

 

[crowi]

Out of curiosity, do you have any proof that the author of the "Emily Smith" post is even a female?

I don't think there's even enough substance to warrant a suspension here unless and until there is some tie to a bona fide complainant.

Yea, I'm not sure I understand why this person is a "she". It could just as well be some person who hates Cole with a VPN.

Usually why I just stay away from these threads. You get crucified for even saying that you'd prefer to see some evidence.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If we are playing the what if game, an easily plausable answer would be his ex. There are stories about him cheating on his fiancé/wife aren't there?

A vengeful ex out for blood is a reasonable explanation for why Ian Cole.

I'd agree that's essentially the only explanation that could possibly fit if this is a complete fabrication. False accusations essentially never happen unless there's an actual relationship in the background and it's gone bad.
There are multiple problems with that theory too that require leaps of logic, but it's more plausible than a completely random person deciding to go after the good name of known cheater Ian Cole.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

But innocent until proven guilty, right?

Until you can prove that she's lying, she's innocent. That's what "believe the victim" means.

Cole is the one being accused, and the burden of proof is on the accusing party. Messages, emails, photos, witnesses, something more than an anonymous tweet, and a proper investigation.

You are going out of your way with mental gymnastics to make the unknown author of an anonymous tweet the accused party here.

 

[MuckOG]

This type of mentality is exactly the reason lots of women refuse to report rape. By taking no position, you are implying that she must be judged on her credibility before we can believe her. That means the victim is suddenly defacto on trial for potentially lying, (lying about rape is an incredibly rare thing) without a single shred of evidence whatsoever. The last thing a victim wants is to be on trial.

If you truly want to take no position, you should choose to believe the victim, while simultaneously not judging the accused.

That's kind of how it works in our system. It might not be perfect, but its the best one there is.

Someone makes a claim of a serious crime, which is then followed by an investigation. After we see the evidence we can then make a more informed decision about the guilt of Cole. The evidence I'm talking about should be available. If they had a relationship, I would imagine they have communicated via text messages. It might not lead to a rape charge, but it would at least establish they had a relationship - which helps when it comes to credibility.

I agree that lying about rape is a rare thing. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Gainesvillain]

Do you have any proof that the NHL does not have enough substance for a suspension-with-pay? Do you know what kind of evidence the NHL does or does not have that isn't publicly available?

Hopefully they have some evidence but I suspect they do not based on their statements so far - especially w/r/t calling their meeting with Cole an interview and not an investigation.

If they have no such evidence then they are setting a dangerous precedent, imo.

 

[horner]

Who truly knows, it’s likely not a single person here knows Cole off ice and what he’s like. If it was a post designed to cripple his reputation and career, it’s probably from someone who knows him personally and wants serious revenge for a variety of reasons, not some aggrieved fan. But the poster is correct, this is setting a precedent. I’m not saying you don’t investigate the claim and treat it seriously, but what is in fact stopping someone from doing this towards a big name player that their favourite team is about to play? How do you say well in this instance, it’s likely made up and is a hoax, without being seen as someone who doesn’t trust victims and believe women? You’d have to suspend the player until you can confirm or deny the claim. Maple leafs are set to begin game 1 of the playoffs against Tampa again or Boston and a deranged fan decides to create a burner account, type out a long and seemingly believable story about him raping them while he was in Switzerland or while on the road in a city, and now what does the NHL and Leafs do? Ignore it? Can’t really do that because what if there’s a 1% chance it’s real? I know people will say well nobody should ever do this and they’d be correct, it’s abhorrent and unethical beyond belief, but we all know people are nuts and are willing to do almost anything.

He screwed around on his wife while she was pregnant with someone in the Carolina organization. She quit her job.
He gets mo leway.

 

[swiftwin]

That's kind of how it works in our system. It might not be perfect, but its the best one there is.

Someone makes a claim of a serious crime, which is then followed by an investigation. After we see the evidence we can then make a more informed decision about the guilt of Cole. The evidence I'm talking about should be available. If they had a relationship, I would imagine they have communicated via text messages.

I agree that lying about rape is a rare thing. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Oh, I completely agree that's how it works in our legal system, and that's 100% how it should happen in our legal system since the bar for conviction is rightfully incredibly high. That's also why many do not report these crimes. They don't want to be put "on trial" for a crime where they were the victim.

But I'm simply talking about the court of public opinion. Why is it that we must put her on trial for potentially lying when there isn't a single shred of evidence that she is lying? When lying about rape is incredibly rare? Lots of people in this thread throwing around potential motives for her lying, like a vengeful ex, a random fan trying to f*** with a team, etc.

The idea that she is lying is pure speculation that nobody has accused her of, is statistically highly improbable, and there hasn't been a single shred of evidence revealed that would indicate she's lying. We have no reason whatsoever to put her "on trial" for lying. None. The only truly "neutral" approach is to believe the victim, but also not judge the accused.

 

[norrisnick]

Hopefully they have some evidence but I suspect they do not based on their statements so far - especially w/r/t calling their meeting with Cole an interview and not an investigation.

If they have no such evidence then they are setting a dangerous precedent, imo.

That's because that is what it is referred to in the edit CBA not SPC under Article 18-A.3.

 

[swiftwin]

Cole is the one being accused, and the burden of proof is on the accusing party. Messages, emails, photos, witnesses, something more than an anonymous tweet, and a proper investigation.

You are going out of your way with mental gymnastics to make the unknown author of an anonymous tweet the accused party here.

From reading this thread, you would think it's the other way around, and the girl is the one being accused and on trial. I'm seeing all sorts of talk about how she could be a jilted ex, an angry fan, questions about if she's even a girl in the first place.

I'm seeing almost no talk about Ian Cole and what he's alleged to have done.

 

[DougKnowsBest]

With the crap Hockey Canada is going through, the only move is immediate suspension with pay the moment the allegation hit major coverage.

It's Ian Cole, not Kucherov. If it was a bigger named player maybe it would play out differently.

If they had more facts, it would be without pay.

thats a mighty fine slippery slope you have there

the way to handle these is the same way most western courts operate. Innocent until proven guilty

 

[RangerDoggo]

If things don’t work out for Ian Cole in hockey, he’d fit in well as a pop punk lead singer.

 

[MuckOG]

From reading this thread, you would think it's the other way around, and the girl is the one being accused and on trial. I'm seeing all sorts of talk about how she could be a jilted ex, an angry fan, questions about if she's even a girl in the first place.

I'm seeing almost no talk about Ian Cole and what he's alleged to have done.

Then you aren't looking. Plenty of posts in this thread suggesting that Cole is guilty of rape, all on the basis of one tweet.

I've seen very few (1 maybe 2?) posts that are suggesting she is lying. There is no evidence of that because all we have is the tweet. It's really too soon to know one way or another.

 

[MXD]

If things don’t work out for Ian Cole in hockey, he’d fit in well as a pop punk lead singer.

...Okay...
I SHOULDN'T HAVE LAUGHED.

...
BUT I DID.

 

[swiftwin]

Plenty of posts in this thread suggesting that Cole is guilty of rape, all on the basis of one tweet.

Plenty more posts in this thread suggesting that she is guilty of lying, all on the basis of zero tweets.

 

[ponder]

Who truly knows, it’s likely not a single person here knows Cole off ice and what he’s like. If it was a post designed to cripple his reputation and career, it’s probably from someone who knows him personally and wants serious revenge for a variety of reasons, not some aggrieved fan. But the poster is correct, this is setting a precedent. I’m not saying you don’t investigate the claim and treat it seriously, but what is in fact stopping someone from doing this towards a big name player that their favourite team is about to play? How do you say well in this instance, it’s likely made up and is a hoax, without being seen as someone who doesn’t trust victims and believe women? You’d have to suspend the player until you can confirm or deny the claim. Maple leafs are set to begin game 1 of the playoffs against Tampa again or Boston and a deranged fan decides to create a burner account, type out a long and seemingly believable story about him raping them while he was in Switzerland or while on the road in a city, and now what does the NHL and Leafs do? Ignore it? Can’t really do that because what if there’s a 1% chance it’s real? I know people will say well nobody should ever do this and they’d be correct, it’s abhorrent and unethical beyond belief, but we all know people are nuts and are willing to do almost anything.

This is hardly the first time we've seen sexual assault allegations against an NHL player. The response is different each time - keep in mind that the teams/league likely have quite a bit more information than they're sharing with the general public, that helps inform their initial decisions.

For example, Panarin and Patrick Kane have both been accused of sexual assault in recent history, but I don't think either were suspended at all, and over time it came out that neither accusation looked very credible. Probably the teams did some rapid initial digging, thought the allegations seemed suspect, and didn't suspend. Here, the Lightning have chosen to suspend while investigating more - I'm guessing that's because initial digging suggest there could be something here. Keep in mind the teams will have huge numbers of connections to Cole's past teammates, coaches, trainers, etc., they'll immediately have a decent handle on "no, this doesn't seem like Cole at all" to "yeah, there could be something here, we have seen him with a number of suspiciously young looking girls".

Teams aren't going to blindly suspend, they'll look at the information they have available and make a decision. I doubt this suspension is based on nothing but a tweet.

 

[MuckOG]

Plenty more posts in this thread suggesting that she is guilty of lying, all on the basis of zero tweets.

Actually, everyone is judging everything on the basis of one tweet...and that's the problem.

 

[ThatGuy22]

This is hardly the first time we've seen sexual assault allegations against an NHL player. The response is different each time - keep in mind that the teams/league likely have quite a bit more information than they're sharing with the general public, that helps inform their initial decisions.

For example, Panarin and Kane have both been accused of sexual assault in recent history, but I don't think either were suspended at all, and over time it came out that neither accusation looked very credible. Probably the teams did initial investigations, thought the allegations seemed suspect, and didn't suspend. Here, the Lightning have chosen to suspend while investigating more - I'm guessing that's because initial investigations suggest there could be something here.

Teams aren't going to blindly suspend, they'll look at the information they have available and make a decision.

The tweet hitting main stream reporters happened like 4 hours before the suspension.

With the Hockey Canada scandal, suspend with pay is the obvious PR move to not have it over shadow the start of your season regardless of if they had even spoken to Cole about it.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Singling out hockey players. That's why

People had no problem singling other athletes out on this board for years.

Now the shoe is on another foot it's BS.

 

[norrisnick]

The tweet hitting main stream reporters happened like 4 hours before the suspension.

With the Hockey Canada scandal, suspend with pay is the obvious PR move to not have it over shadow the start of your season regardless of if they had even spoken to Cole about it.

Did anyone in the media get tagged in the tweet? The NHL and Tampa did. If their social media interns weren't asleep at the wheel I'd imagine this was very quickly escalated internally.

 

[ponder]

The tweet hitting main stream reporters happened like 4 hours before the suspension.

With the Hockey Canada scandal, suspend with pay is the obvious PR move to not have it over shadow the start of your season regardless of if they had even spoken to Cole about it.

The Tweet @-mentioned both the Lightning and the NHL in the afternoon of Oct 7th, and the suspension came a bit over 2 days after, the evening of the 9th, so it wasn't quite that quick. They were likely looking into this before it blew up in the news, though obviously it blowing up in the news would apply pressure to act:



Also, the NHL is a small, tight knit community, and the people making these suspension decisions are literally a part of that community. They're well connected to Cole's ex teammates, coaches, trainers, etc. It's not hard for them to very, very quickly get to a decent early take of "this seems like BS" to "this could be legit". If you're in Lightning management, doesn't take long tend send out a few "early feeler" texts/emails/calls to your friends who know Cole to help you decide on your first actions.

They aren't passing any final judgements off of that, there will be a proper investigation, but I'll bet they have a lot more information than the general public does. That doesn't mean Cole is definitely guilty, but it does mean not all accusations will result in immediate suspensions.

 

[Statto]

If you believe the victim and accept what she says happened as fact, then you would have to conclude that Cole is a rapist. You can't have it both ways.

Or it could be her truth… and perhaps from his perspective things are different. So you have to give her credence and treat the accusation in good faith.


Also people complaining about it being an account just to make this accusation. Can you imagine what would happen to her personal twitter feed if she used that? Women that stand up and get counted for this sort of thing often get death/rape threats and all sorts of other abuse. She’d end up having to delete her main account. It makes much more sense to use a separate account than her own in this scenario. Because she used @ TampaBay instead of # they can contact the account and only them.

 

[MikeyMike01]

lol are we to suddenly question everyone because of one sensationalized court case

It’s one of the foundations of western democracy, yes.

 

[ThatGuy22]

The Tweet @-mentioned both the Lightning and the NHL in the afternoon of Oct 7th, and the suspension came a bit over 2 days after, the evening of the 9th, so it wasn't quite that quick. They were likely looking into this before it blew up in the news, though obviously it blowing up in the news would apply pressure to act:



Also, the NHL is a small, tight knit community, and the people making these suspension decisions are literally a part of that community. They're well connected to Cole's ex teammates, coaches, trainers, etc. It's not hard for them to very, very quickly get to a decent early take of "this seems like BS" to "this could be legit". If you're in Lightning management, doesn't take long tend send out a few "early feeler" texts/emails/calls to your friends who know Cole to help you decide on your first actions.

They aren't passing any final judgements off of that, there will be a proper investigation, but I'll bet they have a lot more information than the general public does. That doesn't mean Cole is definitely guilty, but it does mean not all accusations will result in immediate suspensions.

While its possible they saw it, If I was a betting man given the shear volume teams get mentioned I wouldn't put my money on it.

 

[sansabri]

It’s one of the foundations of western democracy, yes.

ah yes. genocide, slavery and skepticism. what was i thinking