I just want two top 6 wingers, thats it.

[alcanalz]

Sid scored 14 of those 19 points vs. Ottawa in 6 games. Then 5 points in 7 games against Montreal.

Malkin scored 8 of his 11 points vs. Ottawa in 6 games and then 3 points in 7 games vs. Montreal.

Kunitz scored 6 of his 11 points vs. Ottawa in 6 games and then 5 points in 7 games vs. Montreal.

Yes, we lost against Montreal because all of our scoring dried up.

Dupuis, Letang, and Goligoski scored more than Malkin's line against Montreal and as much as Sid.

While I know they destroyed Ottawa, that still doesn't discredit how badly Mtl's timely scoring destroyed us. At the end of the day, it was definitely MAF and our D that lost us that series, not Halak or Hal Gill or out top-six or whoever.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Can Kane play RW? I don't think anybody wants an Iginla situation until 2018.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

While I know they destroyed Ottawa, that still doesn't discredit how badly Mtl's timely scoring destroyed us. At the end of the day, it was definitely MAF and our D that lost us that series, not Halak or Hal Gill or out top-six or whoever.

This is what you said:

We did not lose that series because of our goal-scoring, we lost because we couldn't keep a goal out even when we absolutely dominated play (which we obviously did)

We held Montreal to 3 goals in 3 different games. Shut them out a game and gave up 1 goal in another. So in 5 games, we could keep the goals low. We lost because we couldn't score.

 

[billybudd]

That is all the team needs, they don't need to be first team all stars, hell, not even top end first liners, just two legitimate, proven top 6ers. No Ray, they cant be "reclamation projects", no Ray they cant be over 37 years old, or 3rd line middling tweener top 9ers with feet where their hands should be. I just want two guys with the wheels and the chops to be productive on Sidney Crosby's line, that really isn't a huge demand. My reason for this is depth by trickle down, no other acquisitions needed. Anything outside of Crosby, Malkin, Neal and Maatta can be had. Picks, prospects, roster players, Primanti sandwich full o' fries, whatever gets it done.

x-Crosby-x
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal (best line in hockey when they were together)
some combo of Goc/Sutter/Dupuis/Stemp/Megna
some combo of Engelland/Vitale/Zolnierczyk/Sill/Leblond....anyway,not Gladams.

yes, I left out Beauner, he could play a year in the A or put in a deal for said established, proven top 6er, which he at this point is not.

You're assuming next season Shero retains that are not under contract, which is a stretch. I assume Goc will want in the neighborhood of 3.5 million...Sutter probably a tad more (even though it's Goc who should be looking for $4 million and Sutter, idk, $800k).

Assume Stempniak makes $3 million, and you're nearly out of money for these two extra top 6 wings you'd like to add (probably costing in the neighborhood of $10 mil between the two).

In addition, while the possibilities of that fourth line are better than ours, it's still one of the five worst in the sport by my estimation. Engelland is not a forward, Vitale has no skill and is about 5 inches undersized for his job and Zolnierczyk was not good enough to crack a Flyer lineup that finished 20th out of 30 teams.

A third line of Goc/Dupuis/Stempniak doesn't have the toughness I generally want on a third, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't have a shot at being very effective.

 

[billybudd]

Guys, what are the chances Kane doesn't re-sign in Chicago after 14-15? I mean the cap is going up but both he and Toews are going to command BIG money. My money would be on Chicago keeping their Captain but who knows.

IF (big IF) Kane were to hit the open market after next year, and we clear a lot of space out, is it feasible to sign a guy like Kane?

Nope. Those two are going to set the new cap ceiling. We can't add him to the three guys we already have making north of $7 million and expect our depth to not look like, well, like it looks now.

 

[billybudd]

Watching the Jets game and they are talking about a very real possibility of Cheveldayoff trading Kane at the draft.

I'd rather see them blow their wad on him than Kesler.

whynotboth.gif

Adding two players like that transforms the product on the ice. Shero's rumored offer by Elliott Friedman--Sutter and a 1st--still gives you the assets to acquire a Kane, and Winnipeg has nothing in the pipeline (or the lineup) on the left side on D.

That said, Kane would probably be substantially more expensive and far more likely to spark a bidding war. A real one, not a fake one that Gillis made up and leaked to Rossi. Kane's got no no-trade clause to restrict bidders and Holmgren's been kicking the tires on him since he was picked.

Holmer was a false contestant in "the price is Kesler." For Kane, he'll actually go all in.

Those pie in the sky packages Vancouver fans were kicking around for Kesler--Bennett, Pouliot, 1st + 2nd--they'll be the actual types of packages being tabled for Evander Kane by real general managers. I would do this for Kane. But how many others would?

That or the Peg would want a 1 to 1 type player. In which case, say goodbye to Maata, because he's the only player we have with roughly Kane's value. If even. That line, I wouldn't cross.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Can Kane play RW? I don't think anybody wants an Iginla situation until 2018.

Don't think so, but Kane-Crosby-Bennett would be just fine with me.

Edit: I've said before that I wouldn't move Bennett in a deal for Kane. I see there was talk on the last page about him being able to create on his own, but I don't see that in his game. He's big, goes to the dirty areas, and has a great shot, but a playmaker he is not. Often times he has tunnel vision and doesn't always use his linemates well.

If we traded Bennett in that deal, then we'd need a RW for Sid (assuming we don't switch Kane) and that would be Dupuis. I don't believe that Kane-Crosby-Dupuis is a sizeable enough upgrade over Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett that it would be worth trading all the other pieces that would need to be involved.

 

[Captain Hook]

I don't think switching wings is that big of a deal. I think the Iginla situation is the exception and not the norm and I even think Iggy could have adjusted to it too if given a full year or so to do it. He just couldn't adjust to it as quickly as the Pens needed him to. He only played about 20 something games here. There just wasn't enough time. DB should have understood that and made a different lineup adjustment but whatever.

 

[PensPlz]

Letang for Eberle, then sign Hemsky. Boom! Now if one of those guys can play LW, we would be set.

Eberle-Crosby-Hemsky
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
BB-Goc-Dupuis

Wont really need a 4th line tbh.

would be like

 

[Zero Pucks]

Now that Staal is out of the picture and has been for two years, there's no excuses why this hasn't been addressed. This should have been priority #1 the second he left. I'm getting so sick of watching garbage being played on Malkin and Crosby's wings.

Does anyone know if Shero tried to go after Bobby Ryan at all last summer?

 

[Captain Hook]

Anaheim got a good young forward in Silverberg, a top forward prospect in Noesen and a 1st. Pretty safe to say they were targeting forwards in a Ryan deal. We didn't have any to offer outside of Bennett. I don't think too many people were real excited about trading Bennett back then either after the way he played as a rookie.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Can Kane play RW? I don't think anybody wants an Iginla situation until 2018.

Kunitz is the only top 6 left wing we have signed after this year, so I don't see why that really matters. Put Neal and Kunitz together with one center. Put Kane and _____ (hopefully we didn't trade Bennett) together with the other center. Problem solved.

 

[WayneSid9987]

It would be nice if Kulemin just signs here and you let JJ walk.
Hopefully the Pens see that as one of the easier potential moves this summer.

Then you make a play for Kesler again.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

It would be nice if Kulemin just signs here and you let JJ walk.
Hopefully the Pens see that as one of the easier potential moves this summer.

Then you make a play for Kesler again.

That's a move they have to make, use that money that belongs to Jokinen on another younger player like Kulemin

I still think we will see that trade that should have happened 2 weeks ago at the draft. Kesler will be coming to Pittsburgh

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Don't think so, but Kane-Crosby-Bennett would be just fine with me.

Edit: I've said before that I wouldn't move Bennett in a deal for Kane. I see there was talk on the last page about him being able to create on his own, but I don't see that in his game. He's big, goes to the dirty areas, and has a great shot, but a playmaker he is not. Often times he has tunnel vision and doesn't always use his linemates well.

If we traded Bennett in that deal, then we'd need a RW for Sid (assuming we don't switch Kane) and that would be Dupuis. I don't believe that Kane-Crosby-Dupuis is a sizeable enough upgrade over Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett that it would be worth trading all the other pieces that would need to be involved.

Kunitz is the only top 6 left wing we have signed after this year, so I don't see why that really matters. Put Neal and Kunitz together with one center. Put Kane and _____ (hopefully we didn't trade Bennett) together with the other center. Problem solved.

I don't think taking away both of Crosby's most familiar wingers would go over so well.

 

[IcedCapp]

I think people are getting too caught up in names here.

Does this team need a rework, top-to-bottom? Yes, definitely. But I think people are aiming too high.

1) Let's look at the 1st line. "The search for Crosby's Neal." In all of our "searching for Crosby's Neal" I think we missed Chris Kunitz becoming James Neal.

- Takes stupid penalties: check
- Occasionally physical: check
- 30-40 goal scorer: check
- amazing chemistry with his center: check

The Penguins don't need Crosby's Neal, they need Crosby's Kunitz.

Playing this role will extend Kunitz's career, and he seems to be filling it just fine.

The Penguins need to find what Kunitz was 4 years ago: a fast banger who can get to the dirty areas, get the puck, and get it to Crosby or Kunitz. Dupuis doesn't fit this because he can't handle the ******* puck. But they don't need a $6MM player here.

I also think it's insulting to try to find ways to get Kunitz on Malkin's line.

Crosby AND Kunitz have had their best seasons with each other. This desire to put Kunitz with Malkin is basically saying, "I don't care about anything other than Malkin's production."

2) The goal for the Malkin line shouldn't be to increase PRODUCTION but rather CONSISTENCY.

When they are playing a bad defensive team or a team who gives them space, the JMN line thrives, because they can do their cute drop passes with ease and exploit those holes.

When they are playing a good defensive team, they are suffocated because they don't have the space to make those moves or the muscle to win board battles.

This is why Jokinen is an issue and why upgrading this line should be a priority, but not a high-priced one.

Again, upgrading Malkin's line isn't about getting Malkin to score 150pts, it's about having him reach his 110-120 points in a non-boom/bust fashion (it would also increase his production as a byproduct, but that's not really important for this discussion).


3) The bottom-6 needs a total rework. Honestly, outside of maybe Goc and Vitale, do we have any championship-caliber bottom-6 players? (I know people will disagree on Vitale, but if he played 7 minutes a night did his "win all the face-offs, hit all the bodies" thing, no one would care).

While they need to find better players and an identity, one thing HAS to be accepted by Shero: they have to find a way to get scoring from all 4 lines. All great teams in today's NHL have 3 line scoring and a 4th line who chips in the occasional marker. The Penguins are a two line team. Their "4th lines" chip in a goal a month? It's depressing and it's not sustainable.


The team needs a severe overhaul, but I don't think selling the farm for players like Kane or Kesler is necessary. Yes, I'd take either of them in a heartbeat, simply because they are great players, but even with a Kane or Kesler on the top line and Bennett on the 2nd line, you still have to find a way to create viable 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I don't think taking away both of Crosby's most familiar wingers would go over so well.

Don't worry. Jack Adams guaranteed Duper his spot on Sid's wing next season as soon as he got hurt.

 

[Shady Machine]

And yeah. Watch what Wheeler just did in OT and tell me he has no place on this team.

Yeah that was ridiculous. Such a sweet goal.

 

[FDBluth]

I think Wheeler would be a better player with Sid than Kane. He's more of a puck-possession, handsy, playmaking winger, whereas Kane is more of just a straight-ahead guy that does his thing off the rush. Kane would definitely get his points with Sid, but I don't think they could combine to make themselves better players the way that Sid and Wheeler could. I could see Sid and Wheeler having the same kind of dynamic that him and Bergeron have had in the past, as they're the same kind of players with the puck on their stick.

I really like Wheeler. I've been impressed with him every time I've seen him play.

 

[gopens66]

I've been pining for Wheeler for years now. Am I wrong to think he could be easier to acquire than Kane? I do like the idea of Kane's combo of skill and toughness, but he is a LW. Not saying that as if it's a major problem or anything, but there would be a bumping of players around the lineup.

Also, the Kesler thing: It seems like everyone here is assuming that he would be Crosby's RW. He reportedly did not like playing wing in Vancouver, and that was with the Sedins. He's also reportedly a bit of a malcontent. Is that a great mix to bring him here, and then play him where he doesn't like to play, or feel comfortable playing?

I think it would be simpler(and make more sense) to find a true RW for the 1st, and a speedy, banging, puck retrieving LW for the 2nd.

Also, right now, I think Stempniak looks great on the 1st, but I also want to see how that pans out in the playoffs.
I'd still be down with Shero re-signing Stemp, regardless of who else we pick up.

 

[billybudd]

I think people are getting too caught up in names here.

Does this team need a rework, top-to-bottom? Yes, definitely. But I think people are aiming too high.

1) Let's look at the 1st line. "The search for Crosby's Neal." In all of our "searching for Crosby's Neal" I think we missed Chris Kunitz becoming James Neal.

- Takes stupid penalties: check
- Occasionally physical: check
- 30-40 goal scorer: check
- amazing chemistry with his center: check

The Penguins don't need Crosby's Neal, they need Crosby's Kunitz.

Playing this role will extend Kunitz's career, and he seems to be filling it just fine.

The Penguins need to find what Kunitz was 4 years ago: a fast banger who can get to the dirty areas, get the puck, and get it to Crosby or Kunitz. Dupuis doesn't fit this because he can't handle the ******* puck. But they don't need a $6MM player here.

I also think it's insulting to try to find ways to get Kunitz on Malkin's line.

Crosby AND Kunitz have had their best seasons with each other. This desire to put Kunitz with Malkin is basically saying, "I don't care about anything other than Malkin's production."

2) The goal for the Malkin line shouldn't be to increase PRODUCTION but rather CONSISTENCY.

When they are playing a bad defensive team or a team who gives them space, the JMN line thrives, because they can do their cute drop passes with ease and exploit those holes.

When they are playing a good defensive team, they are suffocated because they don't have the space to make those moves or the muscle to win board battles.

This is why Jokinen is an issue and why upgrading this line should be a priority, but not a high-priced one.

Again, upgrading Malkin's line isn't about getting Malkin to score 150pts, it's about having him reach his 110-120 points in a non-boom/bust fashion (it would also increase his production as a byproduct, but that's not really important for this discussion).


3) The bottom-6 needs a total rework. Honestly, outside of maybe Goc and Vitale, do we have any championship-caliber bottom-6 players? (I know people will disagree on Vitale, but if he played 7 minutes a night did his "win all the face-offs, hit all the bodies" thing, no one would care).

While they need to find better players and an identity, one thing HAS to be accepted by Shero: they have to find a way to get scoring from all 4 lines. All great teams in today's NHL have 3 line scoring and a 4th line who chips in the occasional marker. The Penguins are a two line team. Their "4th lines" chip in a goal a month? It's depressing and it's not sustainable.


The team needs a severe overhaul, but I don't think selling the farm for players like Kane or Kesler is necessary. Yes, I'd take either of them in a heartbeat, simply because they are great players, but even with a Kane or Kesler on the top line and Bennett on the 2nd line, you still have to find a way to create viable 3rd and 4th lines.

Excellent post, IC. The bit, in particular, about Kunitz

a) not being a grinder on his line any more and
b) that probably extending his career

should be required reading.

I'm still not sold on the idea that adding Kesler, if possible, wouldn't be an incredibly important step in the sea change the roster needs, but it's not because you haven't been persuasive enough.

 

[billybudd]

I've been pining for Wheeler for years now. Am I wrong to think he could be easier to acquire than Kane? I do like the idea of Kane's combo of skill and toughness, but he is a LW. Not saying that as if it's a major problem or anything, but there would be a bumping of players around the lineup.

Also, the Kesler thing: It seems like everyone here is assuming that he would be Crosby's RW. He reportedly did not like playing wing in Vancouver, and that was with the Sedins. He's also reportedly a bit of a malcontent. Is that a great mix to bring him here, and then play him where he doesn't like to play, or feel comfortable playing?

I think it would be simpler(and make more sense) to find a true RW for the 1st, and a speedy, banging, puck retrieving LW for the 2nd.

Also, right now, I think Stempniak looks great on the 1st, but I also want to see how that pans out in the playoffs.
I'd still be down with Shero re-signing Stemp, regardless of who else we pick up.

In terms of assets? No, you're not wrong. Availability? Probably.

The Peg media, rightly or wrongly, has all but run Kane out of town over the last few years, which, I guess has put him on the market. Wheeler was just a name that was out there earlier because they were contending for a lottery pick. Maurice came in, roster started winning, reasons for trading Wheeler probably disappeared.

 

[FDBluth]

I've been pining for Wheeler for years now. Am I wrong to think he could be easier to acquire than Kane? I do like the idea of Kane's combo of skill and toughness, but he is a LW. Not saying that as if it's a major problem or anything, but there would be a bumping of players around the lineup.

Also, the Kesler thing: It seems like everyone here is assuming that he would be Crosby's RW. He reportedly did not like playing wing in Vancouver, and that was with the Sedins. He's also reportedly a bit of a malcontent. Is that a great mix to bring him here, and then play him where he doesn't like to play, or feel comfortable playing?

I think it would be simpler(and make more sense) to find a true RW for the 1st, and a speedy, banging, puck retrieving LW for the 2nd.

Also, right now, I think Stempniak looks great on the 1st, but I also want to see how that pans out in the playoffs.
I'd still be down with Shero re-signing Stemp, regardless of who else we pick up.

The good thing about Stempniak is that he's proven that he can play on the top line. If we get a better player for the first, then he'd be a very good third line option and if there's injuries (which, of course, there will be), he's shown that he can slot into the top six.

 

[gopens66]

In terms of assets? No, you're not wrong. Availability? Probably.

The Peg media, rightly or wrongly, has all but run Kane out of town over the last few years, which, I guess has put him on the market. Wheeler was just a name that was out there earlier because they were contending for a lottery pick. Maurice came in, roster started winning, reasons for trading Wheeler probably disappeared.

Yeah, it really does come down to whether the Peg wants to keep him, or even have any kind of need they would fill by trading him.

The good thing about Stempniak is that he's proven that he can play on the top line. If we get a better player for the first, then he'd be a very good third line option and if there's injuries (which, of course, there will be), he's shown that he can slot into the top six.

This is how I feel. Re-sign him because he can play with Sid and Kunitz. If you're able to land a better looking date for the dance, then make Stemp your back-up plan.

Dupuis-Goc-Stempniak has depth scoring written all over it. Proven winger on the right, face-off stud(one of the best in the league) defensive-minded center, and a speedy(yeah I'm aware of his knee) fore-checking winger on the left is a remedy for much of what ails this team.

 

[eXile59]

Two top 6 wingers? That's it! Why hasn't Shero thought of this!!!

You have any idea how hard it is to get one top 6 winger? It's hard enough to get guys with warts like Gaborik and Moulson.