Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VII - Cliff Pu and other shit

[The Jerk Store]

Hopefully he's the real dealio.

 

[GoldiFox]

I've noticed that Jack Drury has been coming on strong offensively as the seasons progresses.

Forwards from 2018 1st/2nd round in NCAA this year:

Pick	Player	GP	G	A	Pts
11	Oliver Wahlstrom	26	7	7	14
14	Joel Farabee	29	11	16	27
19	Jay O'Brien	21	2	3	5
42	Jack Drury	24	7	14	21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[NotOpie]

I've noticed that Jack Drury has been coming on strong offensively as the seasons progresses.

NCAA Forwards from 2018 1st/2nd round in NCAA this year:

Pick	Player	GP	G	A	Pts
11	Oliver Wahlstrom	26	7	7	14
14	Joel Farabee	29	11	16	27
19	Jay O'Brien	21	2	3	5
42	Jack Drury	24	7	14	21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Don't forget about David Cotton....clearly a late bloomer but he is a Hobey Baker nominee.

Cotton's line: 17g 10a 27p in 29 games.

 

[MinJaBen]

Don't forget about David Cotton....clearly a late bloomer but he is a Hobey Baker nominee.

Cotton's line: 17g 10a 27p in 29 games.

I wonder if we have a better chance of signing Fox than we do Cotton? While at the NHL level, Fox has more guys in front of him, he'd be the Number 1/2 prospect on defense for us and the next guy up when there is room. Cotton, while having a nice season, has a lot more guys to jump to get into a Canes roster spot for a likely bottom six role. If I were him, I'd probably look at other clubs with shallower prospect pools.

 

[Incubajerks]

Hopefully he's the real dealio.

Trade chip?

 

[Lempo]

I wonder if we have a better chance of signing Fox than we do Cotton? While at the NHL level, Fox has more guys in front of him, he'd be the Number 1/2 prospect on defense for us and the next guy up when there is room. Cotton, while having a nice season, has a lot more guys to jump to get into a Canes roster spot for a likely bottom six role. If I were him, I'd probably look at other clubs with shallower prospect pools.

That's bad for us, because (with 4 years having passed since his Draft) he can become a Draft-related UFA after June 1st 2019 by leaving the college. If he stays in school until Jan 1st 2020, we'll have his rights until August 15, 2020.

We can sign him this spring and offer to burn the first year of his ELC immediately to entice him, but after that we got nothing on him that others wouldn't have (except the college degree).

 

[DougieSmash]

Trade chip?

I hope not.

 

[Vagrant]

i don't see a reason why cotton would be a difficult sign for us after this season. he's having a good year, but he's not exactly breaking records. it seems lost in the shuffle that a good 90% or so (a number pulled out of my arse) of college drafted players sign with the team that drafted them. they've developed relationships with the organization and have only communicated with this one franchise since draft day. lots of camps, tournaments, in-season scouting visits, etc. there's a comfort level there. in a sport where just getting a contract offer is an honor, it shouldn't be too hard to sign most of your NCAA kids unless you fumble their development entirely or just run into the odd example of a late bloomer that exploded his stock between his junior and senior seasons.

 

[WreckingCrew]

i don't see a reason why cotton would be a difficult sign for us after this season. he's having a good year, but he's not exactly breaking records. it seems lost in the shuffle that a good 90% or so (a number pulled out of my arse) of college drafted players sign with the team that drafted them. they've developed relationships with the organization and have only communicated with this one franchise since draft day. lots of camps, tournaments, in-season scouting visits, etc. there's a comfort level there. in a sport where just getting a contract offer is an honor, it shouldn't be too hard to sign most of your NCAA kids unless you fumble their development entirely or just run into the odd example of a late bloomer that exploded his stock between his junior and senior seasons.

This, plus the fact that I don't think he's at a point in his career where he can "expect" an NHL spot like Fox might be able to do given his production (or a guy like Vesey)...of course I haven't watched him at all recently so not sure how his game is or how it might translate. That means he's likely 2-3 years from having any chance to crack the NHL roster (IF he develops well), and as everyone here knows, a LOT can change in 2-3 years. More often than not, guys are better signing with the team that drafted them than trying to go the UFA route. How many guys < 1 PPG in NCAA make the jump straight to the NHL? I will say, the fact that he's leading ALL of his BC teammates by 10G & 9PTS is promising at least

 

[The Jerk Store]

Trade chip?

Chip Alexander? Sure.

 

[Lempo]

i don't see a reason why cotton would be a difficult sign for us after this season. he's having a good year, but he's not exactly breaking records. it seems lost in the shuffle that a good 90% or so (a number pulled out of my arse) of college drafted players sign with the team that drafted them. they've developed relationships with the organization and have only communicated with this one franchise since draft day. lots of camps, tournaments, in-season scouting visits, etc. there's a comfort level there. in a sport where just getting a contract offer is an honor, it shouldn't be too hard to sign most of your NCAA kids unless you fumble their development entirely or just run into the odd example of a late bloomer that exploded his stock between his junior and senior seasons.

The NCAA players do have the 'advisor' because they can't call him 'agent'. That advisor isn't doing his job if he doesn't look for the best option for his player. If Cotton signs with us after the season, he leaves college, but at this point leaving college would mean that he can sign with anyone after June 1st 2019.

In his circumstances he would be fool to honor the NHL Entry Draft system just for honoring's sake, if some other organization is a better option for him. He has done his CBA-mandated four years' waiting out.

 

[HisIceness]

I've noticed that Jack Drury has been coming on strong offensively as the seasons progresses.

Forwards from 2018 1st/2nd round in NCAA this year:

Pick	Player	GP	G	A	Pts
11	Oliver Wahlstrom	26	7	7	14
14	Joel Farabee	29	11	16	27
19	Jay O'Brien	21	2	3	5
42	Jack Drury	24	7	14	21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

For those that watch, would it be fair to say that Jack Drury is an Erik Cole type?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

For those that watch, would it be fair to say that Jack Drury is an Erik Cole type?

He doesn’t seem to be nearly the skater that Cole was in my viewings so I don’t see that comparison, although I’ve only watched him a few times.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Am I the only one uncomfortable bending a knee to Fox? I mean I get the kid should be good, but potentially "guaranteeing" him a spot in the lineup in order to entice him to sign? f*** off.

 

[GoldiFox]

Am I the only one uncomfortable bending a knee to Fox? I mean I get the kid should be good, but potentially "guaranteeing" him a spot in the lineup in order to entice him to sign? **** off.

If the Canes are uncomfortable giving their prospects power over their own destiny then they should stop drafting and trading for NCAA players. Bending the knee to top flight NCAA talent is part of the dance. Boston had to burn a year of McAvoy's ELC to entice him. Nashville is reportedly considering dealing Fabbro over similar concerns to Fox.

I don't disagree with you, just saying it would be really dumb for the Canes to continue to draft and deal for these guys and then expect any different.

 

[MinJaBen]

Am I the only one uncomfortable bending a knee to Fox? I mean I get the kid should be good, but potentially "guaranteeing" him a spot in the lineup in order to entice him to sign? **** off.

 

[RodTheBawd]

If the Canes are uncomfortable giving their prospects power over their own destiny then they should stop drafting and trading for NCAA players. Bending the knee to top flight NCAA talent is part of the dance. Boston had to burn a year of McAvoy's ELC to entice him. Nashville is reportedly considering dealing Fabbro over similar concerns to Fox.

I don't disagree with you, just saying it would be really dumb for the Canes to continue to draft and deal for these guys and then expect any different.

Is Fox really a McAvoy level talent? I guess I'm just skeptical of his ceiling.

 

[MinJaBen]

Is Fox really a McAvoy level talent? I guess I'm just skeptical of his ceiling.

I think his hockey IQ is better, but his wheels are worse than McAvoy. I think McAvoy has the better shot, but Fox makes better passes.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Do we know that Fox is even saying he won’t sign without an NHL guarantee? Or just assuming that?

 

[RodTheBawd]

Do we know that Fox is even saying he won’t sign without an NHL guarantee? Or just assuming that?

It's the internet, you already know the answer.

 

[Lempo]

Boston had to burn a year of McAvoy's ELC to entice him. Nashville is reportedly considering dealing Fabbro over similar concerns to Fox.

NSH was also offering to do that to sign Jimmy Vesey, but he went the Draft-UFA way nevertheless. BUF did that to sign Casey Mittelstad after only one year in NCAA.

Apparently teams don't think it's all that big a deal; they are much more concerned of the Game 42 milestone that will give their ELC boy an Accrued Season that may see their young superstars reach UFA at 25 at earliest (7 Accrued Seasons needed).

There's a clause in the CBA that says that boys on hastened ELC won't yet get RFA status until after the legit ELC amount of years spent in the League, so teams only need to give them a Qualifying Offer to keep their exclusive negotiation rights when the ELC ends.

 

[WreckingCrew]

If the Canes are uncomfortable giving their prospects power over their own destiny then they should stop drafting and trading for NCAA players. Bending the knee to top flight NCAA talent is part of the dance. Boston had to burn a year of McAvoy's ELC to entice him. Nashville is reportedly considering dealing Fabbro over similar concerns to Fox.

I don't disagree with you, just saying it would be really dumb for the Canes to continue to draft and deal for these guys and then expect any different.

If we did that though we wouldn't have Faulk (remember his prime years), Pesce, OR Slavin...I guess it's just a calculated risk you sometimes have to take. Didn't we also deal with the same from Hanifin? If I remember right, he wanted a guaranteed roster spot and we gave it to him (of course our D was pretty weak)...though it probably wasn't the best for his development. If indications are Fox really doesn't want to sign with us then he gets traded for something, I think the odds of him making it all the way to UFA are pretty slim. The "NHL guarantee" is also a gentleman's agreement (someone please correct me if there is actually an ELC contract that locks that down), so if he really does **** the bed, I think you can discuss sending him down to the AHL for some development time...OR trade him somewhere that stinks on defense that could use him. There are a lot of different "what if" scenarios, and I think ultimately they're not worth worrying about for a while still...how many highly regarded NCAA guys 100% go the UFA route without being traded for anything?

 

[Lempo]

If we did that though we wouldn't have Faulk (remember his prime years), Pesce, OR Slavin...I guess it's just a calculated risk you sometimes have to take. Didn't we also deal with the same from Hanifin? If I remember right, he wanted a guaranteed roster spot and we gave it to him (of course our D was pretty weak)...though it probably wasn't the best for his development. If indications are Fox really doesn't want to sign with us then he gets traded for something, I think the odds of him making it all the way to UFA are pretty slim. The "NHL guarantee" is also a gentleman's agreement (someone please correct me if there is actually an ELC contract that locks that down), so if he really does **** the bed, I think you can discuss sending him down to the AHL for some development time...OR trade him somewhere that stinks on defense that could use him. There are a lot of different "what if" scenarios, and I think ultimately they're not worth worrying about for a while still...how many highly regarded NCAA guys 100% go the UFA route without being traded for anything?

Gentlemen's agreements are actually strictly forbidden in the NHL. The SPC has clauses to that:


19. The Club and the Player represent and warrant that there are no undisclosed agreements of any kind, express or implied, oral or written and that there are no promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, supplements or understandings of any kind between the Player or his Certified Agent and the Club that have not been disclosed to the NHL, with regard to: (i) any consideration of any kind to be paid, furnished or made available during the term of the SPC or thereafter; and/or (ii) and future renegotiation, extension, amendment or termination of this SPC.

and

23. It is severally and mutually agreed that this SPC and the CBA contain the entire agreement between the parties and there are no oral or written inducements, promises or agreements except as provided herein.


Strictly speaking Dubas' promise to Nylander that he won't be traded after he signs the contract was a circumvention to the CBA. Only UFAs are legally eligible to be protected from a trade (if agreed in writing on the SPC!), no such courtesy can be given to a RFA.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Yeah, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Once he puts pen to paper, he's ours regardless of "guarantees". That's not to say lie to him, but if he can't cut it, we are within our rights to do what we need to do with him. Our guys clearly think/thought a lot of him, so I'm sure they'll know what they are doing and what he's capable of, and not just be doing it to make sure he signs.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Gentlemen's agreements are actually strictly forbidden in the NHL. The SPC has clauses to that:


19. The Club and the Player represent and warrant that there are no undisclosed agreements of any kind, express or implied, oral or written and that there are no promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, supplements or understandings of any kind between the Player or his Certified Agent and the Club that have not been disclosed to the NHL, with regard to: (i) any consideration of any kind to be paid, furnished or made available during the term of the SPC or thereafter; and/or (ii) and future renegotiation, extension, amendment or termination of this SPC.

and

23. It is severally and mutually agreed that this SPC and the CBA contain the entire agreement between the parties and there are no oral or written inducements, promises or agreements except as provided herein.


Strictly speaking Dubas' promise to Nylander that he won't be traded after he signs the contract was a circumvention to the CBA. Only UFAs are legally eligible to be protected from a trade (if agreed in writing on the SPC!), no such courtesy can be given to a RFA.

I appreciate you posting that (I knew someone here would have CBA knowledge and be able to share). So it sounds like a player can "ask" for an NHL spot, but technically none can be guaranteed or agreed to without technically circumventing the CBA. I guess if a player signs "expecting" an NHL spot and isn't given it, all they can really do is request to be traded