Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VII - Cliff Pu and other shit

[TheOllieC]

Flyers fans were all over it, demanding No. 1. A few were willing to settle for "definitely Top 3."

"Some things never change, they just stay the same."

 

[CandyCanes]

Buffalo has got us beat with their top 2 vs ours. But I like our depth a whole lot better.

 

[HisIceness]

Lol yeah I knew as soon as it was posted how much outrage there'd be. Jesus Flyer fans are insufferable with their prospects

It wasn't that long ago, 2011ish that they had arguably the worst crop of prospects of any other team. But you couldn't tell some of them that fact because they refused to believe it.

 

[geehaad]

It wasn't that long ago, 2011ish that they had arguably the worst crop of prospects of any other team. But you couldn't tell some of them that fact because they refused to believe it.

Probably true of us back then, too, though.

 

[cptjeff]

Probably true of us back then, too, though.

We just need to give Boychuck a real chance in an offensive role and he'll be a star.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Necas needs to be a the real deal. A 1-2 lunch of he and Aho as legit top 6 centers is the key to this team being competitive in the next 5 years.

That and ofcourse someone’s making a f***ing save.

 

[Moosetache]

Necas needs to be a the real deal. A 1-2 lunch of he and Aho as legit top 6 centers is the key to this team being competitive in the next 5 years.

That and ofcourse someone’s making a ****ing save.

Bobrovsky next summer...thats the answer.

 

[MinJaBen]

Bobrovsky next summer...thats the answer.

That's a $9-10M answer. Not sure we can afford to ask the question.

 

[My Special Purpose]

That's a $9-10M answer. Not sure we can afford to ask the question.

If our two current goalies both suck, I'm not sure we can afford *not* to ask it.

 

[Moosetache]

That's a $9-10M answer. Not sure we can afford to ask the question.

well after we sell Faulk for a bag of pucks and picks we will be below the floor.....either way, we will have way more space than we need if we wanted to go that direction.

yes, I know that won't be an issue once the extensions are signed

 

[Lempo]

That's a $9-10M answer. Not sure we can afford to ask the question.

If our two current goalies both suck, I'm not sure we can afford *not* to ask it.

Rats. If I wanted to deal with stuff I can't afford and can't not afford, I'd stay in my IRL.

 

[emptyNedder]

I have been playing in the SKATR tool that was the basis for the Jaccob Slavin discussion earlier this week.

The caveats are: 1) it was only 10 games; 2) it was against several teams that were out of the playoffs, so the games weren't meaningful; 3) beginner's luck.

Still, Zykov played 10 games last season (including the last one on a line with another rookie, Roy, and Nordstrom), so his data are in the SKATR tool. I can't determine how to copy it into this post. Basically for those 10 games Zykov looks like a combination of Brad Marchand and Nikita Kucherov.

As excited as everyone is (and rightly so) about Svechnikov and Necas, is it possible that Zykov is 75% as good as this tool indicates? If so, then the top line will be quite strong in 18-19.

I also think Zykov's numbers support the arguments for those who think Aho is capable of being a #1 center.

 

[RibFrabcus]

I have been playing in the SKATR tool that was the basis for the Jaccob Slavin discussion earlier this week.

The caveats are: 1) it was only 10 games; 2) it was against several teams that were out of the playoffs, so the games weren't meaningful; 3) beginner's luck.

Still, Zykov played 10 games last season (including the last one on a line with another rookie, Roy, and Nordstrom), so his data are in the SKATR tool. I can't determine how to copy it into this post. Basically for those 10 games Zykov looks like a combination of Brad Marchand and Nikita Kucherov.

As excited as everyone is (and rightly so) about Svechnikov and Necas, is it possible that Zykov is 75% as good as this tool indicates? If so, then the top line will be quite strong in 18-19.

I also think Zykov's numbers support the arguments for those who think Aho is capable of being a #1 center.

Yeah I agree I think Zykov is more likely to have a greater impact *this* season than Necas.

 

[Unsustainable]

Yeah I agree I think Zykov is more likely to have a greater impact *this* season than Necas.

Necas at Center has a bigger impact though.

Aho and Necas at Center is going to be our biggest ? For impact, along with 2 goalies with redemption needs.

 

[AD Skinner]

I've been saying all summer I think Zykov is going to be a big part of the canes this year. Even if he doesn't generate a ton of points hes still going to park his ass in front of the crease and make sure they know he's there. If he and ferland both make a habit of doing that it will give the offense a look it hasn't had in years

 

[NotOpie]

As excited as everyone is (and rightly so) about Svechnikov and Necas, is it possible that Zykov is 75% as good as this tool indicates? If so, then the top line will be quite strong in 18-19.

Yeah I agree I think Zykov is more likely to have a greater impact *this* season than Necas.

I'm one who also believes Zykov is the dark horse for "best goal scoring rookie" on the team.

Necas at Center has a bigger impact though.

Somebody's got to replace Skinner's goal scoring and, for better or worse, I think the team thinks that's Zykov. While Necas may end up putting up points, it wouldn't surprise me if he's more of an assist monster than a goal scorer. I could see both guys getting 30-35 points, but with Necas having 10g/25a and Zykov having the exact inverse, 25g/10a.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm not as high on Zykov as many of you are. 17 of his 33 AHL goals were on the PP because he was getting prime PP time on a team that had one of the best powerplays in the AHL. Now, maybe some of that team PP success, was due to Zykov being on the PP, but I can't believe all of it was. I'm not so sure Zykov will get prime PP time on the Canes with guys like Aho, TT, Svechnikov, Necas, Rask, Staal, etc., and until I see it, I don't expect the Canes to have nearly as good of a PP, and NHL goalies are a lot harder to score on than AHL goalies. He also has never had a reputation for being strong defensively, which Brindy will demand.

It seems he's taking this opportunity seriously by staying in Raleigh this summer to work out, he has good hands, is physical and not afraid to go to the net so that part of it bodes well for him. If we get a good all around game from him and 15G-30P, that will be a big success in my book.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I'm not as high on Zykov as many of you are. 17 of his 33 AHL goals were on the PP because he was getting prime PP time on a team that had one of the best powerplays in the AHL. Now, maybe some of that team PP success, was due to Zykov being on the PP, but I can't believe all of it was. I'm not so sure Zykov will get prime PP time on the Canes with guys like Aho, TT, Svechnikov, Necas, Rask, Staal, etc., and until I see it, I don't expect the Canes to have nearly as good of a PP, and NHL goalies are a lot harder to score on than AHL goalies. He also has never had a reputation for being strong defensively, which Brindy will demand.

It seems he's taking this opportunity seriously by staying in Raleigh this summer to work out, he has good hands, is physical and not afraid to go to the net so that part of it bodes well for him. If we get a good all around game from him and 15G-30P, that will be a big success in my book.

I’m with you, except I don’t consider myself low on Zykov at all. 15 goals is exciting.

While obviously I’d love for him to compete for the Calder, score 25 goals, etc., there’s a reason he’s a 23-year-old rookie. If he had 30 goal potential this season, you’d think he’d have been in the NHL before now.

 

[GoldiFox]

I'm not as high on Zykov as many of you are. 17 of his 33 AHL goals were on the PP because he was getting prime PP time on a team that had one of the best powerplays in the AHL. Now, maybe some of that team PP success, was due to Zykov being on the PP, but I can't believe all of it was. I'm not so sure Zykov will get prime PP time on the Canes with guys like Aho, TT, Svechnikov, Necas, Rask, Staal, etc., and until I see it, I don't expect the Canes to have nearly as good of a PP, and NHL goalies are a lot harder to score on than AHL goalies. He also has never had a reputation for being strong defensively, which Brindy will demand.

It seems he's taking this opportunity seriously by staying in Raleigh this summer to work out, he has good hands, is physical and not afraid to go to the net so that part of it bodes well for him. If we get a good all around game from him and 15G-30P, that will be a big success in my book.

If you go watch those 17 PP goals the majority come from a heady, decisive play in the slot/crease. Those plays are tougher to make in the NHL but Zykov did a great job in his audition last year. If the Canes can't find a way to implement Zykov on the PP when they don't have one other player half as good at this element then shame on them. Jordan Staal is the closest thing the Canes have had to a net-front guy but his hands are legitimately among the worst in the NHL.

This is all theoretical based on Zykov's ES play. Peters never played Zykov on the main PP unit. He got 9-10 minutes on the 2nd unit late in his 10 game stint.

15G is a good target for Z. 20G would be something to get excited about and anything more than that puts him squarely in the "Best value contracts in the league" discussion potting 20+ for $650k in 2019-20. I think he could be next year's Ondrej Kase putting up ~20/20 and opening a lot of eyes around the league.

 

[AD Skinner]

Oh for sure- I'm not saying he's going to light the league on fire. I just think he's going to take the step from prospect to nhl regular

 

[vorbis]

yeah that oddly low-leverage 2 year deal he signed plus reports of him sticking around Raleigh to work out on the regular are very good signs that he's poised and preparing for a big year.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I’m with you, except I don’t consider myself low on Zykov at all. 15 goals is exciting.

For a guy whose goal scoring is about the only thing he brings to the table, 15 goals isn’t much above replacement level. Unless he’s a better defender or playmaker than advertised, he’s going to need to do a little better than that to make us a better team.

 

[NotOpie]

I'm not as high on Zykov as many of you are. 17 of his 33 AHL goals were on the PP because he was getting prime PP time on a team that had one of the best powerplays in the AHL. Now, maybe some of that team PP success, was due to Zykov being on the PP, but I can't believe all of it was. I'm not so sure Zykov will get prime PP time on the Canes with guys like Aho, TT, Svechnikov, Necas, Rask, Staal, etc., and until I see it, I don't expect the Canes to have nearly as good of a PP, and NHL goalies are a lot harder to score on than AHL goalies. He also has never had a reputation for being strong defensively, which Brindy will demand.

It seems he's taking this opportunity seriously by staying in Raleigh this summer to work out, he has good hands, is physical and not afraid to go to the net so that part of it bodes well for him. If we get a good all around game from him and 15G-30P, that will be a big success in my book.

The "Summer in Raleigh" thing is super impressive in my opinion and, if allowed to make some rank speculation, I'd guess that HCRBA intimated something of that sort to him. I'd characterize Zykov's skating as average, neither slow nor fast, but he is pretty agile on his skates for a guy of his size. The Checker's games that I've watched never showed him to be a defensive liability. I do, believe, that BBA does have it right, he's going to have to prove that part of his game every night for him to get time on any prime scoring line.

In the end, I have him doing slightly better than BBA (around 19 goals and between 35 and 40 points), but that is assuming time on Aho/Teravainen's line as well as some PP time.

15G is a good target for Z. 20G would be something to get excited about and anything more than that puts him squarely in the "Best value contracts in the league" discussion potting 20+ for $650k in 2019-20. I think he could be next year's Ondrej Kase putting up ~20/20 and opening a lot of eyes around the league.

If Zykov pots between 15 and 20 goals and between 35 and 40 points, he then becomes the part of the "replace Skinner's offense" equation that should move that into net positive territory. I personally believe that Svechnikov and Necas likely produce in the 35 goal range between them. Adding Z's goals to that mix really does put the team in a good position. But as I've said elsewhere, DEPENDING on rookie scoring is a fools errand....even for the resident optimist such as myself.

 

[RibFrabcus]

For a guy whose goal scoring is about the only thing he brings to the table, 15 goals isn’t much above replacement level. Unless he’s a better defender or playmaker than advertised, he’s going to need to do a little better than that to make us a better team.

He tilted the ice heavily in the canes favor in the games he played. Small sample size but his style of play suggests he can maintain that positive impact.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He tilted the ice heavily in the canes favor in the games he played. Small sample size but his style of play suggests he can maintain that positive impact.

Starting 70% of your shifts in the offensive zone will do that.