Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VII - Cliff Pu and other shit

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Anton Dubinchuk

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I must say I think Martinook was a fantastic acquisition.
However--
Given the players in Charlotte, the Canes shouldn't need to add any 3rd/4th liners for the next 5-8 years. Foegele, McKegg, Bishop, and Maenalanen are already proving that the Checkers can provide NHLers. With players like Geekie and Roy already in Charlotte plus Mattheos, Luostarinen, and Cotton on the way the pipeline for depth is excellent.
If Necas and one of Kuokkanen, Gauthier, or Saarela can get close to their ceiling, the Canes might be able to fill out those top 2 lines as spockrock mentioned.
The organization is building a winning culture starting in Charlotte.

That's not how the NHL works. Jordan Staal and Justin Faulk are the only players still on the team that were here 5 years ago, and not a single player currently on the team was here 8 years ago.

I agree with your overall point regarding having stocked cupboards, but I'd be willing to bet Aho, Svech, Slavin, and Pesce are the only 4 players right now that even have a chance to still be here in 8 years.
 

emptyNedder

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Maybe the Darling saga has a silver lining. Booth is getting more playing time on loan to Reading in the ECHL. The last two games (really one game and one period as he only played one period last Friday for some reason) he has stopped 30 of 31. Booth has already played more games in one month than he played in the first two in Charlotte.
ECHL competition is not ideal, but Booth and Helvig are getting regular starts and both have improved significantly in January. In a perfect world, next season Ned is ready to be the back-up in Raleigh, then Booth and Helvig split time in Charlotte. I know that isn't likely, but at least it is positive to have several decent goalie prospects.
 

MinJaBen

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In a perfect world, next season Ned is ready to be the back-up in Raleigh...

In a perfect world, or good realistic world more likely, I'd rather we not break what is working and extend the two guys we have who are doing well sharing the load. The last thing this team needs is to go into another year with a question mark in goal.
 

emptyNedder

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In a perfect world, or good realistic world more likely, I'd rather we not break what is working and extend the two guys we have who are doing well sharing the load. The last thing this team needs is to go into another year with a question mark in goal.
Don't disagree. But the team needs to decide if Ned is NHL material in the next two seasons. Having him play 75% of the games in Charlotte if he isn't going to end up in Raleigh is holding one of Booth or Helvig back.
 

MinJaBen

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Don't disagree. But the team needs to decide if Ned is NHL material in the next two seasons. Having him play 75% of the games in Charlotte if he isn't going to end up in Raleigh is holding one of Booth or Helvig back.
I agree that he is holding Booth and/or Helvig back playing in Charlotte another year, but I haven't seen anything in his play that suggests he is an NHL calibre goalie deserving of moving on from the guys we have now. The only thing he has going for him are his wins, and that is more of a function of the goal support he gets in Charlotte. He'd be eaten alive up with the big club. My expectation is that we sell off one or both of Mrazek and McBackup at the deadline if we are out of it and then Ned gets his audition. If he does as well as I think he will do, he probably won't get extended an offer at the end of his contract this year and the club will move on to Booth and Helvig in Charlotte.
 

NotOpie

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@Lempo I'm curious about the level of competition in the 2 lower level Finnish leagues. I always thought that Mestis was at a higher level than the Jr. A SM-Liiga. Can you clarify? The reason I ask is it appears that Makiniemi is playing pretty well once he moved to Mestis. Would love to see him get a year in regular Liiga play next season. Is that a possibility given his play?
 

Lempo

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@Lempo I'm curious about the level of competition in the 2 lower level Finnish leagues. I always thought that Mestis was at a higher level than the Jr. A SM-Liiga. Can you clarify? The reason I ask is it appears that Makiniemi is playing pretty well once he moved to Mestis. Would love to see him get a year in regular Liiga play next season. Is that a possibility given his play?

Liiga may be bit iffy, because Kiekko-Vantaa is the affiliate of KHL team Jokerit and Makiniemi's contract is with the Jokerit organization. I'm not sure if they do Loans with Liiga, I understand there's some sort of embargo the Liiga teams have been having with the Jokerit after they ditched to KHL. BUT this is something Makiniemi's camp without a doubt has taken into consideration and they got their planned routes.

I gotta admit I don't really follow the Finland scene to give a legit assessment and comparison on the level of competition. BUT, as raw facts go, Mestis is the former 1st division, so the 2nd highest level of adult hockey, and when there's an opening in the Liiga the Mestis organizations are the ones who fight for it. So the teams are adult teams right below the Liiga level, and Eetu is moving on up.

If we trust Sebastian Aho, and we obviously should, I guess his assessment that with the grown-up the game in Liiga is more celebral (compared to juniors dump&rush) also applies to Mestis.

Jr A SM-Liiga on the other is the "final" level of the juniors system and it is U20. There's B, C, D etc juniors according to age cohorts below them. The most promising players obviously play a couple of letters above their age, and graduate to or get given a try in the mother Liiga team when considered "ready". It is known that when the Liiga teams start have injuries amassing towards the spring, they'll raid their A juniors' locker rooms to get the filler players from among the best in there.

Laine famously did his transition to adults through Mestis playing in LeKi at 16 after having played through the Liiga juniors system but not being quite in the Liiga level.

Mestis has their own junior A Mestis that's below JR A Liiga. There is actually a relegation series played between four worst in JA A Liiga and two best in JR A Mestis, so a team can move up from JR Mestis to JR Liiga. The main Liiga is a closed series because of business and cabinets, and a Mestis team moving into Liiga is a business decision maybe more than a sportsing consideration.

Eetu is competing for the starter job with Waltteri Ignatjew, Kiekko-Vantaa's own ward, who is of same age and also moving up from JR A.

Waltteri Ignatjew at eliteprospects.com

Looking up the KV and U20 Jokerit rosters, there's a plenty of goalie Loan movement between the two Jokerit affiliates.

Jokerit U20 at eliteprospects.com
Kiekko-Vantaa at eliteprospects.com

Jere Huhtamaa is mixing it a bit, because he's bound to NCAA in 19/20 and therefore can't play in pro Mestis series to retain eligibility.
 
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Lempo

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So how do Finnish fans in general feel about Jokerit and the KHL thing? That still seems super weird to me.
Well. Jokerit always had this capital city "bought team" rep when in Liiga (as opposed to provincial teams growing their own) which maybe serves as the backdrop intel.

In that context it's kind of understandable that they'd try their wings in KHL. But Finland didn't really buy the "Finland's own team" marketing angle.

The political realities of KHL as Putin's pet league have come clear a couple of seasons in, especially when the national main entertainment venue Hartwall Arena where Jokerit play was hit with the USA sanctions due to the Russian owners Rotenbergs. The KHL refereeing goes into serious game management mode come the playoffs time.

Apparently they're bleeding money, and the Rotenbergs pour more in. The Finnish owner Hjallis Harkimo to whom the franchise in the way has always been identified to is looking to unload his ownership. He's been promising a new Finnish part-owner "very acceptable" to the populus, and Selanne and Kurri has been the talk in town, but deadlines for the announcement have burst one after another. Harkimo maybe said more than he should have when asked in an interview if his son Joel (up and coming business man) will be the new owner and Harkimo horrifiedly and apparently unthinkingly noted: "Dear god I'd never do that to him!"

I think we feel a bit dirty, looking into the abyss and the abyss looking back.

(further reading: wikipedia article on "Finlandization")
 

Lempo

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A curious tidbit of the Kiekko-Vantaa goalie job, maybe helping to assess the level: Noora Räty famously signed up to play as pro with men with KV in 2014-15 and had a couple of starts. At the same time Kevin Lankinen played there as 18 or 19 y.o. and is now trying to make it in AHL/ECHL in the Blackhawks organization. He went to be a good Liiga goalie in HIFK, the other KV affiliate. As Helsinki-based teams, Jokerit and HIFK always were rivals in the Liiga, but maube that's one potential route to Eetu,

Kiekko-Vantaa at eliteprospects.com
Kevin Lankinen at eliteprospects.com

Räty was only second woman to play in Mestis, after Hayley Wickenheiser who mostly played in Suomi-sarja, the level below Mestis, and couldn't quite cut it in Mestis when her team got promoted there.

Noora Räty - Wikipedia
Hayley Wickenheiser - Wikipedia
 

emptyNedder

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Man it would be cool if it turned out the Canes have something in Mattheos
The interesting coincidence is that playing for the same junior team, the Brandon Wheat Kings, Mattheos' junior numbers are similar to Micheal Ferland's. Goals, assists, penalty minutes and +/- are all tracking. They are close size wise--the only real difference is that Ferland is a left shot and Mattheos is a right shot.
 

NotOpie

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Who has the higher ceiling between Jake Bean and Adam Fox? Are they similar players or is one more of a two way player than the other?
Right now Jake Bean has 23 points in 38 games in the AHL, clearly a level of competition above NCAA. Fox has 22 points in 14 games, clearly an extremely high level of play. I'd argue that Bean has the higher ceiling but that Fox is slightly more likely to reach his.
 

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i still can't help but feel like roland mckeown is being wrong handed away from being in the nhl right now. he just continues to do everything for charlotte. it's unfortunate for him that our rhd is solved at the nhl level and we could potentially have adam fox on the way. he deserves a call. leads charlotte at plus 17. next closest is bean at plus 7 among defensemen.
 

CandyCanes

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i still can't help but feel like roland mckeown is being wrong handed away from being in the nhl right now. he just continues to do everything for charlotte. it's unfortunate for him that our rhd is solved at the nhl level and we could potentially have adam fox on the way. he deserves a call. leads charlotte at plus 17. next closest is bean at plus 7 among defensemen.

I’ve had the exact same thoughts. I liked what I saw with McKeown during his callups. Funny enough I feel like his game could be extremely similar as to how Calvin DeHaan is, but on the right side.
 
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