How to fix the flyers...fire the idiot behind the bench, get mdz back in the line up and trade grossman and Shultz for picks, trade coburn for a 1st, draft 2 scoring left wingers in the 1st round. Give PEB some time with coots and read and redo the 4th line completely aka get rid of umberger,
Vl, vdv and Rinaldo and give white a shot to center some ahlers
Vl, vdv and Rinaldo and give white a shot to center some ahlers
Appleyard
Registered User
May-October:
Everyone preaching patience about letting players develop and wait a few years until the D are aged 22-24 and the forwards still mid to late 20s... (which is a fine mix if you appreciate that people vastly overestimate how long it takes for D men to develop, if they are going to be a top 4 d man they are 80% going to be there by the time they are 23.)
December after realising we likely aren't making the playoffs:
TRADE ALL OUR GREAT FORWARD ASSETS FOR MEDIOCRE RETURNS.
What we should do:
Just stand PAT for the most part, try and move some of the older D men and somehow Vinny, make ~2 sensible 3rd and 4th line UFA acquisitions in the offseason to make the lineup even more balanced and take pressure off Couturier and Giroux, develop the D men with patience and wait for the window that should appear in a few years time and should last for ~4-5 seasons.
If Couturier and Schenn never develop from now on and Laughton is only ever a 40 pt centre our forward group in 4 years should still be one that is good enough in a vacuum to contend... Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Schenn and Laughton is frankly a pretty great core group to build around, and the oldest of them is 26.
Everyone preaching patience about letting players develop and wait a few years until the D are aged 22-24 and the forwards still mid to late 20s... (which is a fine mix if you appreciate that people vastly overestimate how long it takes for D men to develop, if they are going to be a top 4 d man they are 80% going to be there by the time they are 23.)
December after realising we likely aren't making the playoffs:
TRADE ALL OUR GREAT FORWARD ASSETS FOR MEDIOCRE RETURNS.
What we should do:
Just stand PAT for the most part, try and move some of the older D men and somehow Vinny, make ~2 sensible 3rd and 4th line UFA acquisitions in the offseason to make the lineup even more balanced and take pressure off Couturier and Giroux, develop the D men with patience and wait for the window that should appear in a few years time and should last for ~4-5 seasons.
If Couturier and Schenn never develop from now on and Laughton is only ever a 40 pt centre our forward group in 4 years should still be one that is good enough in a vacuum to contend... Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Schenn and Laughton is frankly a pretty great core group to build around, and the oldest of them is 26.
There's nothing you can do. You stand pat and try and trade off assets like Umberger, Lecavalier, MacDonald, Coburn, L. Schenn, Read, and Grossmann. Get as many draft picks as you can and let your prospects develop
renberg
Registered User
Pretty much spot on. Teams will need defensive help/depth for the PO runs; also scoring. That's when Vinny and the blue line judge can get moved.
I agree with this approach however, craig berube isn't the coach i want leading these guys going forward. I don't like anything about him all the way down to the comments he makes in interviews regarding this team and hockey. I don't think he's a good decision maker and i don't trust him enough to change and get better as a coach. As far as this roster goes I think it's important to find a way to get rid of umberger and lecavalier even if it's eating the majority of the contract and bringing in 2 900K guys for the next few seasons. The current top 7 dmen should all be available as we have a solid core getting ready to make way. Hextall needs to show some signs of life
renberg
Registered User
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20141231_Flyers_GM_open_to_trades.html
He may be getting the picture but he's not going to get ripped off in a deal. When he lets the axe drop on Berube is another matter.
That works if the majority of the defense prospects hit and Giroux and Voracek maintain there 1st line 5on5 dominance well into their 30's. Those two things could happen but are against the overall trends of the league.
Appleyard
Registered User
I don't mind keeping Umberger as a 3rd liner, or even a 4th liner if we could bring in Bergenheim or an equivalent on a good deal, he is decent and capable of 14 mins a night in that role... his salary is a pain, but so long as the cap goes up next year even slightly they should be fine.
I mean, trading him and not giving something up to do so is favourable, but so long as he fits under the cap with no repercussions until he can be bought out with little damage it is not TOO big a deal.
Appleyard
Registered User
The odds likely mean Giroux is a ~75 point centre until age ~34. Voracek likely at a similar level until ~32.
The odds also say if the d men hit they will have by age 24, and ~50% will by age 22.
Start of 2017-18:
Giroux (age 29)
Voracek (age 28)
Simmonds (age 29)
Couturier (age 24)
Laughton (age 23)
Schenn (age 26)
Morin (age 22)
Hagg (age 22)
Gostisbehere (age 24)
Sanheim (age 21)
That year IMO is the first year where if things go right there is a legitimate possibility the team contends... 2022-23 is the last. Though Simmonds is almost certainly done years before 2022-23, but he is far more replaceable than Giroux and Voracek, who are the crux.
I have no doubt that Giroux will still be productive just like joe Thornton. But if you look at Joe Thornton in the playoffs the last few years in his 30s he has been outplayed by younger centers in their prime like kesler, toews and Kopitar. So in a 7 game series, who do you think will perform better, a 30-34 year old Giroux or and 22-26 year old Barkov or 22-26 year old McDavid.
BringBackHakstol
Registered User
That's why you continue to draft well, scout heavily college FA's, etc.. Other players will come along.
Sure it's hard, but you just simply can't get rid of players of Giroux and Voracek's abilities when they are still 26 and under.
- Sep 28, 2014
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Craig Berube said before Monday's loss in Arizona he'd like to get Michael Del Zotto back in the lineup. Del Zotto, 24, has sat for nine consecutive games. "Right now, the six 'D' are playing well and doing what we've asked of them," Berube said
Is he watching the same games?
Also, where is the mention of the fact the PK is single-handedly destroying this team more than anything else?
Is he watching the same games?
Also, where is the mention of the fact the PK is single-handedly destroying this team more than anything else?
This team can't trade
Giroux
Voracek
Couturier
Simmonds
B. Schenn
Laughton
Read
Raffl
----------
Build around them.
Trade Coburn, Lecavalier(20% retained), 1st Round Pick to Edmonton for Hall.
Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Hall-Couturier-Read
Schenn-Laughton-Simmonds
Rinaldo-Bellemare-Umberger
Morin-Streit
Sanheim-Macdonald
Del Zotto-Schenn
Giroux
Voracek
Couturier
Simmonds
B. Schenn
Laughton
Read
Raffl
----------
Build around them.
Trade Coburn, Lecavalier(20% retained), 1st Round Pick to Edmonton for Hall.
Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Hall-Couturier-Read
Schenn-Laughton-Simmonds
Rinaldo-Bellemare-Umberger
Morin-Streit
Sanheim-Macdonald
Del Zotto-Schenn
Read, Schenn, and Raffl are all very tradeable. Even Laughton and Simmonds could be traded for the right price. Really G, Voracek, and Coots are the only truly untouchable guys out there.
BernieParent
In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
That quote at the very end about why the fourth line is so successful made me facepalm so hard I think I have fingerprints on my skull.
- Sep 28, 2014
- 76,865
- 123,534
Yeah I wouldn't say those guys are untradeable, but at the same time, teams trade quality players less and less so the likelihood of another team offering up an asset that we would deem worthy of Laughton or Simmonds is very unlikely. Also, keeping these guys together will help them build into a stronger team rather than recycling through players. That's what helped Boston win in 2011 and return to the Finals in 2013. Most of the players from 2010 Bruins were still around and they had figured out how to win together after some brutal losses.
Larry44
#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
- Mar 1, 2002
- 11,996
- 7,359
add re-signed Coburn and Schenn as big, defensive RD vets and maybe Alt and you've got a nice set of 7.
at F:
Raffl in his 4th yr
Bellemare in his 3rd yr
Leier is probably starting his second yr - three fast, gritty 2-way players to fill out the bottom lines
We really need another scoring winger and goalie out of this draft/deadline deals.
Great coaches have a way to keep their teams competitive and when the right personnel gel they win championships. This team should at least compete in games. It looks disorganized and pitiful. The coaches, all of them, need to get fired immediately. It was a huge mistake giving Berube the reins to an NHL team. Just like it was with Stevens. Do it now before we ruin what we have.
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