Management How would you rate Sweeney?

[Aussie Bruin]

Cost them? I mean it’s the butterfly effect so it’s an impossible argument to make, but I’ll say this. They don’t have a banner hanging and $12.6M of the $79.5M salary cap was allocated toward Seidenberg, Backes, Moore, Hayes, and Beleskey in 2018-19. They combined for 11 total minutes in game 7(thanks John Moore).

This is my thinking too. Sweeney put together a team that in the last couple of years was capable of contending for a Cup. He deserves credit for that. But he also left too much money and high draft picks on the table, that resulted in a team with a weaker roster than it quite easily could have had. Did it 'cost' them a Cup? Well it's probably not that simple, but he made decisions that actively hurt their chances of doing so. That's how it goes - he bears responsibility for both the good moves and the bad.

 

[Eddie Munson]

• Drafting - C - He’s has Had some good picks and some complete wiffs. He has a tendency to reach for players and value character of skill. He will never live down the 2015 draft especially as guys like Bergeron, Chara, Krejci, Rask come to the end of their careers.
• Developing draft picks and young talent - B - This is his bread and butter. Where he made his name before he was the GM.
• Identifying and signing college free agents - B - Good. He consistently seems to find college defensemen.
• Acquiring NHL talent to fill holes (like Krejci's RW) - D - He’s missed out on big UFAs. He has tried at the deadline To address this but has had some bad trades and bad luck.
• Making trades (player for player, player for futures, futures for player) - C - I feel like most of the trades he’s made has been to send out bad cap. So this is tough to answer. Love the Coyle trade though.
• Trade deadline acquisitions - B - He’s had a few swing for the fences that had some bad luck. He hasn’t been afraid to move picks for help which is nice.
• Free Agency (as in July 1st UFA's) - F - Hasn’t added a single viable piece through free agency to this teams core.
• Getting existing players to sign at discounts - B - Seems to do well with this. Obviously Tory Krug stands out but McAvoy and Carlo deals were strokes of genius.
• Overall team performance under Sweeney - B - Hard to argue against his success with this team.
• Overall Grade: - B - 20+ other teams would kill for our success.

All that said. I’m still displeased with this offseason. We’re running out of kicks at the can and this offseason feels like a punt. His greatest asset is his greatest weakness just like Bill Belichick. There’s a hubris that they can develop any player they want into big league talent. To think that Sweeney and Neely were talking about big changes this offseason and then suddenly pivoted to the answers for what ails this team will need to come from internally is very disheartening. I feel like the B’s are in for a difficult transition from their aging, successful core much like the Pats. Sweeney is a good GM but I’m not sure he’s the GM for the rebuild this team will need in the coming years.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

The fact that he has not been able to close on a top notch free agent is concerning. I would love for someone with more knowledge than me to expand on this.

Is it the management team?

Is it the hate of for our ownership?

The city?

The players that are currently the core players?

Not saying it's any of the above but it's a little curious to me that DS hasn't been able to close on any impact players to push them over the top from the FA market.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

This is my thinking too. Sweeney put together a team that in the last couple of years was capable of contending for a Cup. He deserves credit for that. But he also left too much money and high draft picks on the table, that resulted in a team with a weaker roster than it quite easily could have had. Did it 'cost' them a Cup? Well it's probably not that simple, but he made decisions that actively hurt their chances of doing so. That's how it goes - he bears responsibility for both the good moves and the bad.

Correct. That's his job.

Once that is done, its up to the players and coaching staff to finish the job.

 

[Shroud of Orrin]

...I mean what is DS going to say in the presser? "Gee you know, that's a lot of pressure on Grz and Vaak in there. Glad I had Ray as a partner"

WTF?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

This is my thinking too. Sweeney put together a team that in the last couple of years was capable of contending for a Cup. He deserves credit for that. But he also left too much money and high draft picks on the table, that resulted in a team with a weaker roster than it quite easily could have had. Did it 'cost' them a Cup? Well it's probably not that simple, but he made decisions that actively hurt their chances of doing so. That's how it goes - he bears responsibility for both the good moves and the bad.

He inherited a Cup winning core and added a couple pieces. That is not the same as actually putting it together himself.

You give him way too much credit there.

Really he was given the keys to a Ferrari and had gotten Honda results

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The fact that he has not been able to close on a top notch free agent is concerning. I would love for someone with more knowledge than me to expand on this.

Is it the management team?

Is it the hate of for our ownership?

The city?

The players that are currently the core players?

Not saying it's any of the above but it's a little curious to me that DS hasn't been able to close on any impact players to push them over the top from the FA market.

When you are a top team in a Cap league, its pretty hard to sign top notch free agents.

 

[member 96824]

Sweeney put together a team that in the last couple of years was capable of contending for a Cup.

For the most part, I disagree...but it's difficult and nuanced. That's why I brought up the Chiarelli thread earlier.

12 forward, 6 D, 1 goalie wise I don't think Sweeney has done anything at all to make the roster better than the one that @BruinDust posted. A large portion of it is the same, which...that's a decision by Sweeney to keep those guys and credit to him for that I guess(even though in some cases he's needed to be saved from himself..like wanting Martin Jones over Tuukka Rask).

I really struggle to say any roster transaction and especially the collective group of transactions has lead to a 20 point swing in the standings and missing playoffs to cup finalist.

I think even the most avid Sweeney defenders know this little window has been driven by an incredibly abnormal resurgence of the core, which looked just about down and out a couple of years ago. If I told you 5 years ago that Bergeron, Krejci, and Rask were all going to be having career years in their mid-30s, Chara would still be collecting Norris consideration and all star votes in his 40s, and Brad Marchand was going to jump from a 42 point player to a 100 point player at the age of 30 you would have looked at me as if I had 3 heads if not more.

So I know I've mentioned this in the past and hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm very specific when I say roster transactions because we all saw the night and day difference from the second Bruce Cassidy took over behind the bench and Sweeney was the one who made that change(even if he did it in a completely cowardly way by waiting until the middle of the Patriots SB parade to do so). Overnight they became a different team. Sweeney definitely deserves credit for identifying a problem in the locker room and not only acting on it, but filling that hole with someone who was able to drive much much better results from the same level of talent..

 

[Dr Hook]

For the most part, I disagree...but it's difficult and nuanced. That's why I brought up the Chiarelli thread earlier.

12 forward, 6 D, 1 goalie wise I don't think Sweeney has done anything at all to make the roster better than the one that @BruinDust posted. A large portion of it is the same, which...that's a decision by Sweeney to keep those guys and credit to him for that I guess(even though in some cases he's needed to be saved from himself..like wanting Martin Jones over Tuukka Rask).

I really struggle to say any roster transaction and especially the collective group of transactions has lead to a 20 point swing in the standings and missing playoffs to cup finalist.

I think even the most avid Sweeney defenders know this little window has been driven by an incredibly abnormal resurgence of the core, which looked just about down and out a couple of years ago. If I told you 5 years ago that Bergeron, Krejci, and Rask were all going to be having career years in their mid-30s, Chara would still be collecting Norris consideration and all star votes in his 40s, and Brad Marchand was going to jump from a 42 point player to a 100 point player at the age of 30 you would have looked at me as if I had 3 heads if not more.

So I know I've mentioned this in the past and hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm very specific when I say roster transactions because we all saw the night and day difference from the second Bruce Cassidy took over behind the bench and Sweeney was the one who made that change(even if he did it in a completely cowardly way by waiting until the middle of the Patriots SB parade to do so). Overnight they became a different team. Sweeney definitely deserves credit for identifying a problem in the locker room and not only acting on it, but filling that hole with someone who was able to drive much much better results from the same level of talent..

I don't think this is far wrong, but I would add the caveat here that five years, and really four if we want to be generous and give the guy a year's grace for his first season (we all I think know the stories about the draft from the mouth of Harry), might not be enough time to assess whether he's been good or shit. The results have been mostly good and a lot of that is the team he inherited but that is true for any GM. If Sweeney had walked into a dumpster fire lottery level team, how long would he get to make that team competitive again? The real test of his effectiveness is going to be over the next five year window if he remains in the job. This is where he will own almost the entire roster. We'll see.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

For the most part, I disagree...but it's difficult and nuanced. That's why I brought up the Chiarelli thread earlier.

12 forward, 6 D, 1 goalie wise I don't think Sweeney has done anything at all to make the roster better than the one that @BruinDust posted. A large portion of it is the same, which...that's a decision by Sweeney to keep those guys and credit to him for that I guess(even though in some cases he's needed to be saved from himself..like wanting Martin Jones over Tuukka Rask).

I really struggle to say any roster transaction and especially the collective group of transactions has lead to a 20 point swing in the standings and missing playoffs to cup finalist.

I think even the most avid Sweeney defenders know this little window has been driven by an incredibly abnormal resurgence of the core, which looked just about down and out a couple of years ago. If I told you 5 years ago that Bergeron, Krejci, and Rask were all going to be having career years in their mid-30s, Chara would still be collecting Norris consideration and all star votes in his 40s, and Brad Marchand was going to jump from a 42 point player to a 100 point player at the age of 30 you would have looked at me as if I had 3 heads if not more.

So I know I've mentioned this in the past and hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm very specific when I say roster transactions because we all saw the night and day difference from the second Bruce Cassidy took over behind the bench and Sweeney was the one who made that change(even if he did it in a completely cowardly way by waiting until the middle of the Patriots SB parade to do so). Overnight they became a different team. Sweeney definitely deserves credit for identifying a problem in the locker room and not only acting on it, but filling that hole with someone who was able to drive much much better results from the same level of talent..

It's amazing what only a few changes can do for a veteran group of players in any sport. As you say, the introduction of Cassidy was very impactful, plus I would also cite the rise of Pastrnak and McAvoy as A-grade players, and you can probably factor Krug into that mix as well as an elite PP operator. These things reinvigorated the older core and gave it belief again and a hope that it could take another realistic run at a Cup. Sweeney was responsible for two of those things, and accordingly deserves credit for them, plus his overall guiding hand in restoring team morale and vision. That's why I'm somewhere in the middle - Don has done some good, positive things as GM, just not as many as could reasonably have been expected given what he inherited.

 

[LSCII]

It was summer 2014. The Bruins were coming off a presidents trophy win where they lost to an Atlantic team in the 2nd round

The year before that, they made it to the finals before watching a central division team raise the cup on TD Garden ice.

The big offseason move? Cap mistakes lead to watching a beloved defender and locker room leader leave for no immediate return as we wait for the other shoe to drop.

The thread?
Grade Peter Chiarelli as a GM

Looking back on my post in the linked thread above, I think I was a little too easy on PC. I think the cup win in 11 made me soft and took away my edge, a la Rocky Balboa in Rocky III....

You ever see a post you made a number of years ago and say to yourself, WTF was I thinking?

 

[Dr Hook]

Looking back on my post in the linked thread above, I think I was a little to easy on PC. I think the cup win in 11 made me soft and took away my edge, a la Rocky Balboa in Rocky III....

You ever see a post you made a number of years ago and say to yourself, WTF was I thinking?

Yep, although sometimes it doesn't have to be even that long ago

 

[LSCII]

Yep, although sometimes it doesn't have to be even that long ago

 

[BruinDust]

It's amazing what only a few changes can do for a veteran group of players in any sport. As you say, the introduction of Cassidy was very impactful, plus I would also cite the rise of Pastrnak and McAvoy as A-grade players, and you can probably factor Krug into that mix as well as an elite PP operator. These things reinvigorated the older core and gave it belief again and a hope that it could take another realistic run at a Cup. Sweeney was responsible for two of those things, and accordingly deserves credit for them, plus his overall guiding hand in restoring team morale and vision. That's why I'm somewhere in the middle - Don has done some good, positive things as GM, just not as many as could reasonably have been expected given what he inherited.

Really this is the difference between Boston and say Chicago and LA. Those two teams haven't added any A-level, core-level players to augment the older A-level core-level players they already had.

Boston was able to add an elite RWer and top pair RD to augment the core of Bergeron/Marchand/Chara/Krejci/Rask that was already here. We can give Sweeney full credit for McAvoy, his impact on Pasta is debatable (certainly he did have SOME impact, no question).

 

[Dr Hook]

Really this is the difference between Boston and say Chicago and LA. Those two teams haven't added any A-level, core-level players to augment the older A-level core-level players they already had.

Boston was able to add an elite RWer and top pair RD to augment the core of Bergeron/Marchand/Chara/Krejci/Rask that was already here. We can give Sweeney full credit for McAvoy, his impact on Pasta is debatable (certainly he did have SOME impact, no question).

The book is still to be written to some extent. Studnicka is on his way and who knows what else will emerge and surprise us from the prospect cupboard. As I wrote above, if Sweeney is around in five years we will know much more because he will largely own the roster at that point. There may be a couple hanging on from the last regime like Pasta and Brad, but most of it will be his work.

 

[Gordoff]

Looking back on my post in the linked thread above, I think I was a little too easy on PC. I think the cup win in 11 made me soft and took away my edge, a la Rocky Balboa in Rocky III....

You ever see a post you made a number of years ago and say to yourself, WTF was I thinking?

Yeah, sometimes it's the day after I wrote a post!

 

[BruinDust]

The book is still to be written to some extent. Studnicka is on his way and who knows what else will emerge and surprise us from the prospect cupboard. As I wrote above, if Sweeney is around in five years we will know much more because he will largely own the roster at that point. There may be a couple hanging on from the last regime like Pasta and Brad, but most of it will be his work.

I have high hopes for Studnicka and Swayman. I think Studnicka will at the very least become a No.2 center who can play on your PP (maybe not your No.1 unit but at least your No.2) and also kill penalties. A poor man's Bergeron to some degree. Swayman to me has the highest upside of any Bruins prospect goalie since Rask was a baby-B prospect.

We're quickly approaching put-up or shut-up time for the rest of the 2015-17 draftees. Their is a group of by my count 9 guys who are either precariously close to either making the NHL or finding themselves out of the organization altogether. Zboril, Senyshyn, Lauzon, Vlader, Hughes, Steen, Koppanen, Frederic, and Vaakanainen. The need to hit on a few of these guys. I think they absolutely need to have at least ONE of Lauzon/Vaak/Zboril become a legit Top 4 LD. That group of forwards I'd be shocked and dumbfounded if any of them ever becomes more than a bottom 6 forward, which is concerning.

They are playing the long-game with the 2018-2020 guys. Most of them we won't even see in Providence for 3-4-5 years, let alone contribute to the parent club. Doesn't help that they only made 14 picks across all 3 drafts.

 

[ON3M4N]

He inherited a Cup winning core and added a couple pieces. That is not the same as actually putting it together himself.

You give him way too much credit there.

Really he was given the keys to a Ferrari and had gotten Honda results

McAvoy
Carlo
Coyle
DeBrusk
Mojo
Kuraly
Halak
Nordstrom
Acciari
Khulman
Backes
Clifton
Moore

I maybe missing a few but those were all guys on the Cup run team and tied to Sweeney as a GM.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

McAvoy
Carlo
Coyle
DeBrusk
Mojo
Kuraly
Halak
Nordstrom
Acciari
Khulman
Backes
Clifton
Moore

I maybe missing a few but those were all guys on the Cup run team and tied to Sweeney as a GM.

a bunch of dime a dozen 4th liners and 3rd pair D. it takes no talent to sign those types of players.

 

[Dr Hook]

a bunch of dime a dozen 4th liners and 3rd pair D. it takes no talent to sign those types of players.

That's a little hard when you consider there is two top 4 d men, a top 6 wing, and an elite 3c in that list.

 

[ON3M4N]

a bunch of dime a dozen 4th liners and 3rd pair D. it takes no talent to sign those types of players.

So McAvoy/Carlo are 3rd pair D and DeBrusk, Coyle and Mojo are 4th liners? Yikes that's a terrible take

 

[Don Cherry]

When you are a top team in a Cap league, its pretty hard to sign top notch free agents.

"Trades are hard". Don't forget that!

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

"Trades are hard". Don't forget that!

Like having the best record in the league.

 

[Don Cherry]

Like having the best record in the league.

The best record in the league all goes out the window when the games get real. You need to be physical to win when it counts. Sweeney has filled the roster with players who hate contact and confrontation. That leads to postseason failure.

 

[GordonHowe]

No. Next question, please.

And if he's channeling his inner Sinden w/r/t to re-signing players, how long will it be before the team is back to the MOC era when no UFA with functioning brain cells would sign on and players currently signed could not wait to get out???

I have the distinct feeling they are already there.

They will burn another year and go nowhere while Sweeney and Neely keep their jobs. Then perhaps Charlie will step in as he did when hiring Chiarelli and later, Claude Julien.

Barring a major shift in attitude and behavior, I don't see things changing much. Which means, OC mediocrity redux.

They don't get it. They don't.