How would you like Center time partitioned between Danault, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Domi, etc?

[Kriss E]

Gionta was 4 years removed from that 80 point season by the time he joined us. Also he was like 30 years old and had more or less peaked.

Domi is only 12 months removed from that 70 point season and is 25 years old. There’s still room for him to grow with him playing around 300+ NHL games.

He got dicked around all year long and didn’t have good wingers to compliment him and we expect him to still keep producing?

What choice do we have anyway? Be stuck in limbo and wait another decade to get a 70 point player? I’d rather bet with the guy who produced recently and say Domi can repeat last years production.

Doesn't really matter, I'm not specifically talking about when Gionta joined us. Calling him a proven 80 pt player a year after he did it was still running before walking. He needed to do it regularly otherwise it's just a one off.
As it stands, Domi is a one off.

We have to be very careful when trying to assess young players like Suzuki and Kotkaniemi. It would be nice to see them become impact players but they need to prove it first. Let’s just say our track record developing young players doesn’t reassure me that trading Domi is a good idea.

Well we don't have a very good track record building our team to be contenders in any way anyways so I don't think that should be your approach.
We are currently building for the future, Suzuki and KK are our youngest and biggest potential forwards so I keep them. I'm not saying we need to move Domi at all cost, just saying, we need two of Tatar-Gallagher-Drouin-Domi moved because our top 6 is just too small and not talented enough to battle through it.

 

[Kriss E]

Domi and Shaw rode epic PDO seasons to higher point total than to be expected. Domi's season this year is what his season last year would have looked like if he wasn't on a PDO bender.

Agreed, which is why many expected him to drop down in production to his usual self.

 

[Kriss E]

If we landed Lafreniere, who would you play him with right now? It has to be Domi, not another young unproven guy, nor Danault.

Domi may have had a great PDO, but he was still playing with Shaw and Drouin. Imagine if he had better wingers!

Well we don't have Lafreniere so guess that answers it.
For the record, I never said we have to move Domi, just saying we cannot expect to compete for anything with Domi, Gallagher, Tatar, Drouin, Suzuki and Byron in our top 6-9. It's a group not talented enough to compensate for their small size. Trade whichever ones but 3 of those guys need to go.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed, which is why many expected him to drop down in production to his usual self.

Same was said about Tatar, Danault, and Gallagher too. Honestly, I don't think we know Domi's "usual self" numbers. He has not played with elite level talent and his numbers are better with the Habs... even in his 2nd season with the Habs.

I have Domi anywhere from 55 - 80 pts. All depends on who he plays with and the circumstance from season to season. He's 25 next year and just touching prime years. It's anybodies guess what he does from season to season

 

[Omar]

I'd jump on a top 10 pick alone for Drouin, that's what we gave up in Sergachev.
I agree, Domi likely yields a bigger return and I'm happy to move him too. I'd move both without hesitation.


To be fair, I don't think too many free agents would sign here anyways.

Same here. I keep Suzuki, Caufield, KK, new prospect, Danault because of his age and performance, and Gallagher for his leadership. Maybe Armia for his size. Everyone else is expendable for size and power.

 

[Be a Hab]

Domi is the the man out? As a center?

Yeah, maybe not next season but in the next couple years, I don't see a future for Domi at Center.

Domi is what? 5.10 190 pounds? I find him a little small to be a top 6 center in the NHL on a team who wants to contend for the Stanley Cup. Domi is good but he doesn't have enough skill/talent to make up for his lack of size to play Center. He is a perfect stop-gab until both KK and Suzuki are ready to take the role as 1C and 2C.

 

[Kriss E]

Same was said about Tatar, Danault, and Gallagher too. Honestly, I don't think we know Domi's "usual self" numbers. He has not played with elite level talent and his numbers are better with the Habs... even in his 2nd season with the Habs.

I have Domi anywhere from 55 - 80 pts. All depends on who he plays with and the circumstance from season to season. He's 25 next year and just touching prime years. It's anybodies guess what he does from season to season

55-80 is quite the range. Should maybe let him score 80pts once before...

 

[WeThreeKings]

Same was said about Tatar, Danault, and Gallagher too. Honestly, I don't think we know Domi's "usual self" numbers. He has not played with elite level talent and his numbers are better with the Habs... even in his 2nd season with the Habs.

I have Domi anywhere from 55 - 80 pts. All depends on who he plays with and the circumstance from season to season. He's 25 next year and just touching prime years. It's anybodies guess what he does from season to season

Not really on Gallagher, he was producing very much in line with his regular production.

52 pts was less than his previous year, and only a 10-5 point jump from his healthy 2013/2014 campaigns. His 64 game campaign is very close in production to his shortened season here. So, Gallagher's production is normal.

Danault's production is what it is when you play as many minutes as he does playing with the teams best wingers. We would expect his numbers to drop when he plays in a role more suitable to him.

Tatar's production was in line with his best year in Detroit, and again, getting top PP minutes and top line ice-time will easily account for an increase in production for a good top 6 player.

Domi & Shaw's production were PDO benders and were not representative of their actual ability. Shaw was on pace for his best season ever and he's played a support role in the top 6 to better players previously, so the puck luck and PDO easily explained why he was scoring higher. PDOmi on a bender of his own, playing with Shaw who was also on a bender, set a perfect storm for his production to be much higher than its ever been and set a benchmark he won't repeat again.

 

[Sorinth]

Danault is your best defensive center and you want to shift him to the wing? Why? It’s more than just about faceoffs.

Because you don't need to play center to contribute defensively. Just ask one of if not the best defensive forwards to ever play the game Bob Gainey who was a winger.

And yes it's more than just faceoffs so here goes.

First defensive roles are based on who gets back first. The first forward who enters the defensive zone is supposed to assume a given role regardless of whether they are a winger or a center. So even as a winger since Danault is a consummate back checker he's likely to be doing much of the same things defensively regardless of being center or winger.

Second, Danault's strength is his board work and fore-checking so we are actually playing to his strengths by moving him to wing.

Third, teams should focus on maximizing their offensive players abilities first because the gap between an good/great offensive player and an average one is much much higher then the gap between a good/great defensive player and an average one.

And finally, the most important thing for our team going forward is the proper development of both Suzuki and Kotkaniemi. That is best served with Domi as the #1 center where he attracts the other teams focus allowing the two young guys to go up against weaker opposition. Furthermore finding out if Danault can be effective on wing would go a long way in determining whether we can/should offer him a long term deal after his current one finishes, because if the future is Suzuki/Kotkaniemi as our top-6 centers we can't commit big money to Danault to play 3rd line center.

 

[Habs Halifax]

55-80 is quite the range. Should maybe let him score 80pts once before...

It is a big range but a player like Ehlers and Nylander have also shown to be in that range heading towards their prime years. And Domi doesn't play with the talent they play with.

There are a lot of guys who have that 55-80 pts range and depends on who they play with. Plus you factor in his age of 25 and he is just touching prime years. Think about Huberdeau, Zibanejad, RNH, Hoffman, Schenn, Perron, Voracek. Point totals will vary from season to season. I bet you Drouin surprises you with a Domi type season from (18/19) in his prime.

Domi is 25 and has 5 NHL seasons. He's just not consistent enough or has played with consistent talent to nail him down in production. That's why I say a bigger range is more accurate. You play him with Barkov and you better bet he gets 70+ pts

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not really on Gallagher, he was producing very much in line with his regular production.
View attachment 351841

52 pts was less than his previous year, and only a 10-5 point jump from his healthy 2013/2014 campaigns. His 64 game campaign is very close in production to his shortened season here. So, Gallagher's production is normal.

Danault's production is what it is when you play as many minutes as he does playing with the teams best wingers. We would expect his numbers to drop when he plays in a role more suitable to him.

Tatar's production was in line with his best year in Detroit, and again, getting top PP minutes and top line ice-time will easily account for an increase in production for a good top 6 player.

Domi & Shaw's production were PDO benders and were not representative of their actual ability. Shaw was on pace for his best season ever and he's played a support role in the top 6 to better players previously, so the puck luck and PDO easily explained why he was scoring higher. PDOmi on a bender of his own, playing with Shaw who was also on a bender, set a perfect storm for his production to be much higher than its ever been and set a benchmark he won't repeat again.

I expect lots of up/downs to come with most of our assets. I don't believe Domi has a normal at this point. Gallagher does though yes.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I expect lots of up/downs to come with most of our assets. I don't believe Domi has a normal at this point. Gallagher does though yes.

I think he does.. he is 5 seasons into his career, where he has always had plenty of ice time and top 6 opportunities. He's a 40-55 pt player with defensive deficiencies.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think he does.. he is 5 seasons into his career, where he has always had plenty of ice time and top 6 opportunities. He's a 40-55 pt player with defensive deficiencies.

Yes but he clearly has played with slightly better talent in Montreal vs Arizona and his numbers are better... even in his off year or disappointing year with the Habs. Regardless, he has not played with the talent that the other players I mentioned did.

2nd tier talent like this need to play with talent. That's my point. They are not stars so in order to produce, they need consistent players with talent to play with. Domi had Shaw in his first season and they played together for most of the years. His other winger was Drouin for a bit and then multiple others. This past year? The list of players Domi has played with was all over the place.

You put Tatar in Domi's spot and he struggles too. Same as Patch. Same as Drouin. You put Nylander or Ehlers in Domi's spot and you would see the same ish

 

[The Real Timo]

I think these 4 centers in whatever order assure few more high picks for the Habs. Suziki is the only one I think will become something that will come close to a legit top 2 centers on a good team. And even then... only if Habs "development" doesn't come in between.
Every time someone posts a lines combination it just looks so depressing...

 

[Be a Hab]

Well we don't have Lafreniere so guess that answers it.
For the record, I never said we have to move Domi, just saying we cannot expect to compete for anything with Domi, Gallagher, Tatar, Drouin, Suzuki and Byron in our top 6-9. It's a group not talented enough to compensate for their small size. Trade whichever ones but 3 of those guys need to go.

Although Suzuki isn't huge he still is 5.11 200 pounds. I think he is big/strong enough to be a Center on a contending team in the NHL. I agree with the rest though, I think Domi is too small/not strong enough to be a center on a good team.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Not really on Gallagher, he was producing very much in line with his regular production.
View attachment 351841

52 pts was less than his previous year, and only a 10-5 point jump from his healthy 2013/2014 campaigns. His 64 game campaign is very close in production to his shortened season here. So, Gallagher's production is normal.

Danault's production is what it is when you play as many minutes as he does playing with the teams best wingers. We would expect his numbers to drop when he plays in a role more suitable to him.

Tatar's production was in line with his best year in Detroit, and again, getting top PP minutes and top line ice-time will easily account for an increase in production for a good top 6 player.

Domi & Shaw's production were PDO benders and were not representative of their actual ability. Shaw was on pace for his best season ever and he's played a support role in the top 6 to better players previously, so the puck luck and PDO easily explained why he was scoring higher. PDOmi on a bender of his own, playing with Shaw who was also on a bender, set a perfect storm for his production to be much higher than its ever been and set a benchmark he won't repeat again.

I wouldn't go that far. Domi's difficult to read, because while his production definitely wasn't sustainable last season, his production this year was also kind of unsustainably bad. He had a career worst season in terms of PDO and IPP. This despite the fact that he was one of the better players in terms of getting the puck to the slot for prime shooting percentages. And the lack of winger support really hurt him more than his shooting falling back to earth.It kind of all points to the fact that he never really played with anyone who could reliably score.

Its wise not think that Domi will be a reliable 70+ point player going forward, but its also reasonable to expect more than 50 point pace from him too. With complementary wingers (which Montreal really doesn't have), he's probably a 60+ point guy, with the chance to break 70 if he's got a great goal scorer on his wing.

I wouldn't be in any rush to move on from Domi. Guys like Suzuki and Kotkaniemi may end up being more suited to playing at center down the line, but you'd be hard pressed to get serious production out of them if they had no line-mate consistency and their most common wingers were Lehkonen, Armia and rookie Suzuki. Montreal has an excess of 3rd line wingers and lack of 2nd line wingers. Also, the one guy that might be effect on the 2nd line (Drouin) isn't a dangerous enough shooter or a frequent enough shooter to properly support a pass-first center.

 

[Kriss E]

It is a big range but a player like Ehlers and Nylander have also shown to be in that range heading towards their prime years. And Domi doesn't play with the talent they play with.

There are a lot of guys who have that 55-80 pts range and depends on who they play with. Plus you factor in his age of 25 and he is just touching prime years. Think about Huberdeau, Zibanejad, RNH, Hoffman, Schenn, Perron, Voracek. Point totals will vary from season to season. I bet you Drouin surprises you with a Domi type season from (18/19) in his prime.

Domi is 25 and has 5 NHL seasons. He's just not consistent enough or has played with consistent talent to nail him down in production. That's why I say a bigger range is more accurate. You play him with Barkov and you better bet he gets 70+ pts

But then that's not really Domi's potential, it's more a byproduct. Not really impressed in a player who can produce more by playing with better guys, you can say that for the majority of players in the NHL.
Pascal Dupuis isn't a 60pt player because he could produce that pace playing with Crosby.
I think Domi is on the lower end of your range and would need to have everything go his way to get towards that 80 pt range and I doubt he'd be able to repeat it.

 

[Hins77]

If Danault reached his roof, and Domi has had a 72 point season, then I'm not willing to send Domi back to the wing until I know that KK or Suzuki is a 70+ point C.

Im not conviced that Domi is a regular 70 pts/season guy. He did it once in Montreal his first year and far from it last year. Suzuki should reach 50/60 pts easily this year if he can play on a second line at center. Kk should start next season in laval and outperform for a call back. So he gonna come back with a lot of confidence. On long term. I think Domi will be a winger. But right now. 1. Domi, 2. Suzuki 3. Danault. The problem is really danault. Hes playing right against first line, but he sis starting too much on o zone. Hes playing too much. Give him good forcheker instead of producer player. He should be our Rob Niedermayer on the 3rd line. Not our first line center

 

[Habs Halifax]

But then that's not really Domi's potential, it's more a byproduct. Not really impressed in a player who can produce more by playing with better guys, you can say that for the majority of players in the NHL.
Pascal Dupuis isn't a 60pt player because he could produce that pace playing with Crosby.
I think Domi is on the lower end of your range and would need to have everything go his way to get towards that 80 pt range and I doubt he'd be able to repeat it.

Byproduct applies to a lot of 2nd tier talent though. You think Nylander puts up 60+ pts on the Habs? If Drouin was still with the Lightning, he would have multiple 60+ pts seasons.

I'm open to trading Domi but it's scary to me what he can do if he played with better talent.

 

[Omar]

Because you don't need to play center to contribute defensively. Just ask one of if not the best defensive forwards to ever play the game Bob Gainey who was a winger.

And yes it's more than just faceoffs so here goes.

First defensive roles are based on who gets back first. The first forward who enters the defensive zone is supposed to assume a given role regardless of whether they are a winger or a center. So even as a winger since Danault is a consummate back checker he's likely to be doing much of the same things defensively regardless of being center or winger.

Second, Danault's strength is his board work and fore-checking so we are actually playing to his strengths by moving him to wing.

Third, teams should focus on maximizing their offensive players abilities first because the gap between an good/great offensive player and an average one is much much higher then the gap between a good/great defensive player and an average one.

And finally, the most important thing for our team going forward is the proper development of both Suzuki and Kotkaniemi. That is best served with Domi as the #1 center where he attracts the other teams focus allowing the two young guys to go up against weaker opposition. Furthermore finding out if Danault can be effective on wing would go a long way in determining whether we can/should offer him a long term deal after his current one finishes, because if the future is Suzuki/Kotkaniemi as our top-6 centers we can't commit big money to Danault to play 3rd line center.

Considering Suzuki and KK’s current and next contracts, I’m fine overpaying Danault in the third hole. Not to mention that Suzuki and KK have to eclipse 60 points to even become top two centers. And unless one becomes a PPG, we need Danault in the third hole to roll 3 lines. I prefer Danault and his elite Selke level defensive play than Domi, whose unproven at center over multiple years, there (if I have to pick one over the other).

 

[Kriss E]

Byproduct applies to a lot of 2nd tier talent though. You think Nylander puts up 60+ pts on the Habs? If Drouin was still with the Lightning, he would have multiple 60+ pts seasons.

I'm open to trading Domi but it's scary to me what he can do if he played with better talent.

I don't think Drouin would produce much more, his issue has more to do with effort and mental push than skills.
I think Domi's skills are more limited and I just don't think saying he's in 55-80pt range is all that realistic given he's never even done it. Maybe he could do it once...I think he's a 50-60pt guy, and if all goes well he could reach 70.

 

[Sorinth]

Considering Suzuki and KK’s current and next contracts, I’m fine overpaying Danault in the third hole. Not to mention that Suzuki and KK have to eclipse 60 points to even become top two centers. And unless one becomes a PPG, we need Danault in the third hole to roll 3 lines. I prefer Danault and his elite Selke level defensive play than Domi, whose unproven at center over multiple years, there (if I have to pick one over the other).

It seems strange to me that the young guys have to eclipse 60 points to be considered top-6 guys which ironically is something Danault has yet to do. Meanwhile the one guy whose actually done it is the guy you consider unproven at center and wouldn't pick.

Overall very strange way of thinking, and intentionally or not you skipped over the main point of the post which is ironic considering your last sentence about if you had to pick one over the other because the whole post was about how you don't have to pick one over the other if you move Danault to wing where he'd likely be just as effective and we wouldn't miss a beat.

 

[Omar]

It seems strange to me that the young guys have to eclipse 60 points to be considered top-6 guys which ironically is something Danault has yet to do. Meanwhile the one guy whose actually done it is the guy you consider unproven at center and wouldn't pick.

Overall very strange way of thinking, and intentionally or not you skipped over the main point of the post which is ironic considering your last sentence about if you had to pick one over the other because the whole post was about how you don't have to pick one over the other if you move Danault to wing where he'd likely be just as effective and we wouldn't miss a beat.

Danault’s job isn’t to score but he’s consistently among the best shutdown centers in the game.

Domi has yet to show consistency at center in a scoring or defensive role so there’s no way I choose him over Danault right now at the center position.

I want elite players in their roles. Simple really.

Domi would be competing with Suzuki and Kk for me, not Danault as they are different roles.

 

[Sorinth]

Danault’s job isn’t to score but he’s consistently among the best shutdown centers in the game.

Domi has yet to show consistency at center in a scoring or defensive role so there’s no way I choose him over Danault right now at the center position.

I want elite players in their roles. Simple really.

Domi would be competing with Suzuki and Kk for me, not Danault as they are different roles.

Every line should be expected to produce. Which is why it makes the most sense to move Danualt to wing where he can still contribute his defensively and the team can run more offensive lines.

 

[Omar]

Every line should be expected to produce. Which is why it makes the most sense to move Danualt to wing where he can still contribute his defensively and the team can run more offensive lines.

You don’t move a Selke candidate from center so you can play someone who’s had one good season in his place. I keep my elite players in their positions and Domi hasn’t proven me anything yet.