How will this team get better?

[Hammertyme]

Two parts to the deal:

Gryba + Prince for Stone
Spezza + 2015 2nd for Boedker + 2014 1st

Both are fair value.

Boedker is young and has big potential. Just hit 50P on Phoenix while playing a solid two-way game. Going from a defense-first team like Phoenix to an offense-first team could make him a 60P two-way winger. Very valuable player.



Who needs a great farm team when almost the entire roster is young and not yet in their prime? That team has a great future ahead of it, and still has several for-sure NHLers coming through the ranks (Lazar, Pageau, Claesson, Boro etc...).

If we were intent on replenishing the prospect pool system after moving Puempel and Prince, we could easily move Methot for a 2014 1st and Anderson for a 2015 2nd.

Keeping Hemsky, Spezza and Michalek makes for another year of an one-dimensional, inconsistent, and soft forward core. Replacing them with Kulemin, Grabovski and Boedker means a much faster, better defensively and harder working forward group.

How do you trade Gryba if he'e an RFA with arbitration rights?
1) Qualify him.
2) Applies for arbirtation.(Fairly good numbers)
3) Awarded fair market value. (1.8-2.3+)(L Schenn 3.6..Gryba has better numbers)
4) Ottawa accepts or lets him walk.
Do you go through this whole process to trade him?

 

[Magix]

... and replace them with young good players.

You can't replace spezza but the rest are trash and are an addition by subtraction. Insert pageau, da costa, prince, lazar, hoffman, and stone. You know, players that will be motivated and will compete instead of lazy crappy veterans.

 

[Stylizer1]

The issue we have is that Karlsson is our only superstar. We have no prospects who look like they are going to produce elite level numbers. A bunch of good looking players who might top out at 20 goals/ 6o points maybe but no real heavyweights.

Spezza needs a quality winger to be an elite center.

I would rather gamble with getting a elite winger for Spezza than trading him away and hoping what we get in return will be better.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

The issue we have is that Karlsson is our only superstar. We have no prospects who look like they are going to produce elite level numbers. A bunch of good looking players who might top out at 20 goals/ 6o points maybe but no real heavyweights.

Spezza needs a quality winger to be an elite center.

I would rather gamble with getting a elite winger for Spezza than trading him away and hoping what we get in return will be better.

Good argument. But can we spend?

Also, I think Lehner can be a star too. Star goalie + Star defender + bunch of 2 way 60 point top 6ers = Boston like.

 

[trentmccleary]

I think the teams are headed in different directions.

After a surprise season last season, the Sens lost two capable vets in Alfie and Gonchar. We counted a lot on young players that hadn't shown consistent results. We didn't have a enough key guys in their primes years.

Columbus has a good amount of young players and some solid vets. They have players like Johnson and Foligno just hitting their prime years. They have shown they are willing to make changes and spend money. I don't think they are Cup contenders but they look to be trending in the positive direction.

Meanwhile going into next season the Sens look to be dealing Spezza, who will likely be replaced by an inferior talent and we have budget talk rather than talk of a commitment to use every avenue to improve the team.

Take away that run at the end led by Spezza and Hemsky (two guys most likely not around next season) and this team is a lot worse than CBJ.

I don't think last season was an abberation for the Sens and would not be at all surprised to see this team perform worse next season. Especially if we let more vets like Spezza and Michalek go.

The teams are too close to call right now, because they're both bubble teams. The ages aren't particularly different between both clubs.

Possibly the biggest difference between the teams this year was that we gave up Gonchar and left a gaping hole in our lineup:
Ott = Karlsson, _______ , Methot
Clb = Johnson, Wizniewski, Tyutin

That's 22 mins a night we were trying to patch with bottom pairing D-men.

Two parts to the deal:

Gryba + Prince for Stone
Spezza + 2015 2nd for Boedker + 2014 1st

Both are fair value.

Something like Boedker, Stone and a 1st looks like the kind of deal you'd get for a player like Spezza alone. Yet, you've cancelled out most of the value we receive by giving up a bottom pairing d-man for a slightly younger bottom pairing d-man and giving up two 2nd rounders (Prince & 2nd) for a 1st. Which leaves us giving up Spezza for a player for looks an awful lot like Nick Foligno did when we traded him.

Boedker is young and has big potential. Just hit 50P on Phoenix while playing a solid two-way game. Going from a defense-first team like Phoenix to an offense-first team could make him a 60P two-way winger. Very valuable player.

Who needs a great farm team when almost the entire roster is young and not yet in their prime? That team has a great future ahead of it, and still has several for-sure NHLers coming through the ranks (Lazar, Pageau, Claesson, Boro etc...).

Boedker is a 2nd line winger who just saw a big spike in production at 24yo. Was this a plateau, a career year or the start of another huge jump? After years of virtual stagnation, I would bet on one of the first two. Which means we would be acquiring a 2nd line winger who doesn't kill penalties.

Oh prospects... who are all of our best prospects? Zibanejad, Lazar, Stone, Puempel, Prince, Pageau, Hoffman, DaCosta... all potential 2nd line players. How did our 2nd line do this year? ... MacArthur-Turris-Ryan, it was awesome. So you're going out of your way to add a 2nd line player that we don't have any need for and trading away a player who drives the offense in the process.

Which brings me back to Stone, a 23yo bottom pairing d-man. We already have so many young, inexperienced d-men on this team that it cost us this season because we didn't have a proven, veteran, #2 d-man. Why do we need another young, inexperienced, bottom pairing d-man right now with Cowen, Wiercioch, Gryba, Ceci, Borowiecki, Claessen and Wideman?

Your deal returned pieces that we didn't need and you gave up most of the value you were acquiring before you even added Spezza to the deal.

How do you trade Gryba if he'e an RFA with arbitration rights?
1) Qualify him.
2) Applies for arbirtation.(Fairly good numbers)
3) Awarded fair market value. (1.8-2.3+)(L Schenn 3.6..Gryba has better numbers)
4) Ottawa accepts or lets him walk.
Do you go through this whole process to trade him?

An RFA is a controlled player, you can trade him just as you would any player who has a contract for the same length of time that they are controlled.

 

[Stylizer1]

Good argument. But can we spend?

Also, I think Lehner can be a star too. Star goalie + Star defender + bunch of 2 way 60 point top 6ers = Boston like.

With Michalek leaving and possibly trading Anderson would free up 7.5 mill for a Forward and a back up goalie. Kassian, Corvo, are moving on so there is 1.5 mill. Trading a Dman for a pick or 2 could give us an additional 1 to 2 more mill.

Gryba will probably get a qualifying offer for about 875,000 so that could be at least worth a 4th/5th rounder. Wiercioch could get a prospect and say a 5th. One of those two will have to go and maybe even both considering Boro will be coming up and Claesson and Wideman are looking really good. Their could be a shift on D next season.

With that being said we still need an offensive upgrade on D

 

[Hammertyme]

The teams are too close to call right now, because they're both bubble teams. The ages aren't particularly different between both clubs.

Possibly the biggest difference between the teams this year was that we gave up Gonchar and left a gaping hole in our lineup:
Ott = Karlsson, _______ , Methot
Clb = Johnson, Wizniewski, Tyutin

That's 22 mins a night we were trying to patch with bottom pairing D-men.



Something like Boedker, Stone and a 1st looks like the kind of deal you'd get for a player like Spezza alone. Yet, you've cancelled out most of the value we receive by giving up a bottom pairing d-man for a slightly younger bottom pairing d-man and giving up two 2nd rounders (Prince & 2nd) for a 1st. Which leaves us giving up Spezza for a player for looks an awful lot like Nick Foligno did when we traded him.



Boedker is a 2nd line winger who just saw a big spike in production at 24yo. Was this a plateau, a career year or the start of another huge jump? After years of virtual stagnation, I would bet on one of the first two. Which means we would be acquiring a 2nd line winger who doesn't kill penalties.

Oh prospects... who are all of our best prospects? Zibanejad, Lazar, Stone, Puempel, Prince, Pageau, Hoffman, DaCosta... all potential 2nd line players. How did our 2nd line do this year? ... MacArthur-Turris-Ryan, it was awesome. So you're going out of your way to add a 2nd line player that we don't have any need for and trading away a player who drives the offense in the process.

Which brings me back to Stone, a 23yo bottom pairing d-man. We already have so many young, inexperienced d-men on this team that it cost us this season because we didn't have a proven, veteran, #2 d-man. Why do we need another young, inexperienced, bottom pairing d-man right now with Cowen, Wiercioch, Gryba, Ceci, Borowiecki, Claessen and Wideman?

Your deal returned pieces that we didn't need and you gave up most of the value you were acquiring before you even added Spezza to the deal.



An RFA is a controlled player, you can trade him just as you would any player who has a contract for the same length of time that they are controlled.

The point is how do you know what you will have to pay IF he doesn't have a CURRENT contract. The question is value. How do you trade an asset if you don't get a solid asset(fixed contract) back? What would happen if arbitration awarded him something higher than expected after you acquired him?