How will this team get better?

[Do Make Say Think]

I know some are saying its a shoestring budget but is there really any proof of that same with they refuse to spend i think to many are reading blogs and taking what they read as facts.

We know we couldn't get Zbynek Michalek for a 3rd because of the budget

We couldn't get a top 4 dman for a third, and we have his brother on the team, because

The Budget

I never said the shoestring budget would be forever, but the fact remains that we are operating a team with salary barely above the floor

We shouldn't be expecting much improvement until we can spend more

 

[sam2020]

We know we couldn't get Zbynek Michalek for a 3rd because of the budget

We couldn't get a top 4 dman for a third, and we have his brother on the team, because

The Budget

I never said the shoestring budget would be forever, but the fact remains that we are operating a team with salary barely above the floor


We shouldn't be expecting much improvement until we can spend more

I just think people are reading to much into the word budget is it a issue yes but not as much as some think.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I just think people are reading to much into the word budget is it a issue yes but not as much as some think.

When 2/3 of the NHL basically gets 2-3 good players more then the Sens it puts the team add a sign octant disadvantage

 

[sam2020]

When 2/3 of the NHL basically gets 2-3 good players more then the Sens it puts the team add a sign octant disadvantage

Good players i would not go that far many teams spend more but on bad players.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Good players i would not go that far many teams spend more but on bad players.

Ya the crap teams like Toronto and Washington

What about teams like Boston, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Tampa Bay, San Jose, etc

Teams that spend to the cap and don't make many financial errors

Those are the teams Ottawa has to be better then

 

[sam2020]

Ya the crap teams like Toronto and Washington

What about teams like Boston, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Tampa Bay, San Jose, etc

Teams that spend to the cap and don't make many financial errors

Those are the teams Ottawa has to be better then

As for they don't make financial errors the only 2 that have no are Pitt and Boston.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I know some are saying its a shoestring budget but is there really any proof of that same with they refuse to spend i think to many are reading blogs and taking what they read as facts.

It was announced at the Melnyk press conference earlier this month the budget would be 56-57 million this upcoming season

Gives the Sens about 5.0 to spend

 

[OttawaSenators11]

It was announced at the Melnyk press conference earlier this month the budget would be 56-57 million this upcoming season

Gives the Sens about 5.0 to spend

That's it? It's going to be a stressful off-season.

Also, if am Ryan and Karlsson, i look to get out ASAP because of the lack of commitment to trying to win.

 

[Micklebot]

Why do we care what we spend now? We don't have the pieces to make a push now, and we aren't yet losing any long term pieces because of any budget.

When the budget stops us from getting long term assets (read trades like the one for Turris, or even Ryan) or forces us to let go of long term assets then I'll worry.

I'd like to see our budget jump in about 2-4 years when our younger guys are vets, and players like Ryan and Spezza if still here are still significant contributors.

Best case, it slowly rises as we gather long term pieces and renew our current core.

 

[Sun God Nika]

when all the 20-24 yr olds reach their physical primes, non of which are close to, and we have a lot of them, i just hope murray doesnt do anything stupid because of a down year.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Change this team's identity. Especially with the internal budget.

Ship out all the veterans. Build an identity as a 200 foot hockey team like Columbus did when they moved Nash and Boston when they moved Thornton.

The only difference between us and Columbus is that we have a top D in the game and better pieces. We could go further as soon as next year.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Change this team's identity. Especially with the internal budget.

Ship out all the veterans. Build an identity as a 200 foot hockey team like Columbus did when they moved Nash and Boston when they moved Thornton.

The only difference between us and Columbus is that we have a top D in the game and better pieces. We could go further as soon as next year.

Agreed.

I would love to see an offense that came up the neutral zone with speed, creating chances either off the rush or off the cycle after getting the puck in deep. They'd also need to backcheck and play responsible 200 foot hockey.

Adding a elite puck mover to the 2nd pairing would make our transition game deadly with that kind of speed coming up ice. I'd target a guy like Ehrhoff.

Something like this would be perfect:

Trade Spezza + Gryba + Prince + 2015 2nd to Phoenix for Boedker + Stone + 2014 1st

Trade Wiercioch, Puempel, PHX 2014 1st for Ehrhoff (50% retained)

Trade Da Costa + prospect for Clifford

Dump Condra, Greening

Sign Kulemin, Grabovski

Boedker - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
Hoffman - Zibanejad - Stone
Clifford - Smith - Neil
Grant (Pageau first call up)

Methot - Karlsson
Ehrhoff - Stone
Cowen - Ceci
Phillips (Borowiecki first call up)

Anderson
Lehner

Maybe even go further and deal Methot for a 2014 1st and Anderson for a 2015 2nd. Replace them in free agency with the remaining salary, should be more than enough.

That's a playoff team with an unreal future. Some creative management and this team could be set up for the playoffs next season and for the foreseeable future.

 

[trentmccleary]

ASomething like this would be perfect:

Trade Spezza + Gryba + Prince + 2015 2nd to Phoenix for Boedker + Stone + 2014 1st

Why don't we just give spezza away for free?

 

[Alfie#11]

Change this team's identity. Especially with the internal budget.

Ship out all the veterans. Build an identity as a 200 foot hockey team like Columbus did when they moved Nash and Boston when they moved Thornton.

The only difference between us and Columbus is that we have a top D in the game and better pieces. We could go further as soon as next year.

Columbus is also a mid spending team. They spent $7 million more than the Sens last year.

Their reaction to missing playoffs was to up payroll to get better. They made trades with Nash etc but they were with an eye to improving the team immediately, along with signings like Horton.

Columbus has more veteran depth than we do, in part due to the extra salary room. Not a good comparison - they are just better than we are and likely to remain that way.

 

[sam2020]

Columbus is also a mid spending team. They spent $7 million more than the Sens last year.

Their reaction to missing playoffs was to up payroll to get better. They made trades with Nash etc but they were with an eye to improving the team immediately, along with signings like Horton.

Columbus has more veteran depth than we do, in part due to the extra salary room. Not a good comparison - they are just better than we are and likely to remain that way.

I think there avg attendance just below 15,000 might be a bit of a concern.

 

[sens83]

Agreed.

I would love to see an offense that came up the neutral zone with speed, creating chances either off the rush or off the cycle after getting the puck in deep. They'd also need to backcheck and play responsible 200 foot hockey.

Adding a elite puck mover to the 2nd pairing would make our transition game deadly with that kind of speed coming up ice. I'd target a guy like Ehrhoff.

Something like this would be perfect:

Trade Spezza + Gryba + Prince + 2015 2nd to Phoenix for Boedker + Stone + 2014 1st

Trade Wiercioch, Puempel, PHX 2014 1st for Ehrhoff (50% retained)

Trade Da Costa + prospect for Clifford

Dump Condra, Greening

Sign Kulemin, Grabovski

Boedker - Turris - Ryan
MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
Hoffman - Zibanejad - Stone
Clifford - Smith - Neil
Grant (Pageau first call up)

Methot - Karlsson
Ehrhoff - Stone
Cowen - Ceci
Phillips (Borowiecki first call up)

Anderson
Lehner

Maybe even go further and deal Methot for a 2014 1st and Anderson for a 2015 2nd. Replace them in free agency with the remaining salary, should be more than enough.

That's a playoff team with an unreal future. Some creative management and this team could be set up for the playoffs next season and for the foreseeable future.

You deplete the farm, lose 1st round picks two years in a row. If you sign Hemsky and 9MM again and keep Spezza, you do the same thing with the forward core you just did.

 

[trentmccleary]

Columbus is also a mid spending team. They spent $7 million more than the Sens last year.

Their reaction to missing playoffs was to up payroll to get better. They made trades with Nash etc but they were with an eye to improving the team immediately, along with signings like Horton.

Columbus has more veteran depth than we do, in part due to the extra salary room. Not a good comparison - they are just better than we are and likely to remain that way.

They're a bubble team who barely made the playoffs on the back of elite goaltending. They had a great season by their standards and we had a terrible one, yet they only finished 5 points above us. If we both ran the same teams out there next season, Ottawa could make it and Columbus could miss.

 

[tony d]

Get another top 6 forward and a top 4 defenseman.

 

[Proust*]

They're a bubble team who barely made the playoffs on the back of elite goaltending. They had a great season by their standards and we had a terrible one, yet they only finished 5 points above us. If we both ran the same teams out there next season, Ottawa could make it and Columbus could miss.

Columbus looked a lot like the 2012-2013 Ottawa Senators, which we now know were likely an aberration. Everything went right for Columbus this year.

 

[inthewings]

Billy Beane is vastly overrated.

No, he's not.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Columbus looked a lot like the 2012-2013 Ottawa Senators, which we now know were likely an aberration. Everything went right for Columbus this year.

Goaltending was otherworldly for us last year but I wouldn't say everything went right for us considering we lost about half of our payroll

I'm not sure I'd say it was an aberration; our system changed once the players we use to play puck possession went down and clearly the team bought-in and the goaltending bailed us when the lack of skill and experience caused problems

Columbus isn't due for a date with regression as far as I can tell from what I saw: no one played out of their mind, just a solid hard working group. One thing that did go right for them was getting to play Pittsburgh in the first round: the Penguins havbe been notoriously bad in the first round in the last few years

 

[Alfie#11]

They're a bubble team who barely made the playoffs on the back of elite goaltending. They had a great season by their standards and we had a terrible one, yet they only finished 5 points above us. If we both ran the same teams out there next season, Ottawa could make it and Columbus could miss.

I think the teams are headed in different directions.

After a surprise season last season, the Sens lost two capable vets in Alfie and Gonchar. We counted a lot on young players that hadn't shown consistent results. We didn't have a enough key guys in their primes years.

Columbus has a good amount of young players and some solid vets. They have players like Johnson and Foligno just hitting their prime years. They have shown they are willing to make changes and spend money. I don't think they are Cup contenders but they look to be trending in the positive direction.

Meanwhile going into next season the Sens look to be dealing Spezza, who will likely be replaced by an inferior talent and we have budget talk rather than talk of a commitment to use every avenue to improve the team.

Take away that run at the end led by Spezza and Hemsky (two guys most likely not around next season) and this team is a lot worse than CBJ.

I don't think last season was an abberation for the Sens and would not be at all surprised to see this team perform worse next season. Especially if we let more vets like Spezza and Michalek go.

 

[operasen]

I think the teams are headed in different directions.

After a surprise season last season, the Sens lost two capable vets in Alfie and Gonchar. We counted a lot on young players that hadn't shown consistent results. We didn't have a enough key guys in their primes years.

Columbus has a good amount of young players and some solid vets. They have players like Johnson and Foligno just hitting their prime years. They have shown they are willing to make changes and spend money. I don't think they are Cup contenders but they look to be trending in the positive direction.

Meanwhile going into next season the Sens look to be dealing Spezza, who will likely be replaced by an inferior talent and we have budget talk rather than talk of a commitment to use every avenue to improve the team.

Take away that run at the end led by Spezza and Hemsky (two guys most likely not around next season) and this team is a lot worse than CBJ.

I don't think last season was an abberation for the Sens and would not be at all surprised to see this team perform worse next season. Especially if we let more vets like Spezza and Michalek go.

If Spezza is staying (Murray knows) then Hemsky will be signed.

The guys that need to go are Phillips, Neil (Boro, Gryba and Smith will need to look after things now) and Greening. Phillips can help a team like Edmonton as their D develops. Neil's position has evolved beyond what he does. Neil & Greening are occupying a space this last year that should be filled by a prospect or two.

 

[Alfie#11]

If Spezza is staying (Murray knows) then Hemsky will be signed.

The guys that need to go are Phillips, Neil (Boro, Gryba and Smith will need to look after things now) and Greening. Phillips can help a team like Edmonton as their D develops. Neil's position has evolved beyond what he does. Neil & Greening are occupying a space this last year that should be filled by a prospect or two.

You're talking what you want/think ought to happen. I'm talking about what seems to be the signals coming from the organization.

I agree - if the team was smart (and more willing to spend) then signing Hemsky and keeping Spezza is the way to go. If they added a top 4 defenceman and a capable vet to replace Michalek, then this team is capable of making the playoffs and making some noise.

That's the frustrating part - adding 5 or 6 million to the payroll could do wonders for this team.

Instead we get Murray talking like this about Spezza: “He’s our captain, at this point, he has a year left on his contract. We’ll see where we go with him,†and Melnyk talking about "any idiot can spend to the cap". The signal from the organization seem to point to Spezza being moved and the budget being restricted. That means we can basically rule out Hemsky and will be getting a player in return for Spezza that likely won't be as good (and that's generous - that player won't be as good).

 

[Hale The Villain]

Why don't we just give spezza away for free?

Two parts to the deal:

Gryba + Prince for Stone
Spezza + 2015 2nd for Boedker + 2014 1st

Both are fair value.

Boedker is young and has big potential. Just hit 50P on Phoenix while playing a solid two-way game. Going from a defense-first team like Phoenix to an offense-first team could make him a 60P two-way winger. Very valuable player.

You deplete the farm, lose 1st round picks two years in a row. If you sign Hemsky and 9MM again and keep Spezza, you do the same thing with the forward core you just did.

Who needs a great farm team when almost the entire roster is young and not yet in their prime? That team has a great future ahead of it, and still has several for-sure NHLers coming through the ranks (Lazar, Pageau, Claesson, Boro etc...).

If we were intent on replenishing the prospect pool system after moving Puempel and Prince, we could easily move Methot for a 2014 1st and Anderson for a 2015 2nd.

Keeping Hemsky, Spezza and Michalek makes for another year of an one-dimensional, inconsistent, and soft forward core. Replacing them with Kulemin, Grabovski and Boedker means a much faster, better defensively and harder working forward group.