How/When Will This Team Find Their Gaudreau/Gallagher/Stone Etc?

[Young Lions*]

So far all we've been hearing about is how Hall/Ebs etc should be traded for Hamonic/OEL etc.

When is this team going to address the deeper problem that for over a decade they cant find no diamond in the rough?

Uh, isn't the point of finding players like those that no one really sees them coming?

Like, people talk about Detroit being so smart about finding great players in late rounds, but if they were so in the know about these players and their potential, why wouldn't they have picked them earlier?

It's mostly just dumb luck I think. Like people are saying, if you pick the best player possible every time you have abetter chance of getting a hit than if you chose based on stuff like character and leadership. I honestly believe you'd be successful picking forwards in later rounds simply by choosing the guy with the best numbers.

 

[McDrai]

didn't Rieder see the writing on the wall after the Oilers drafted Nail? and with Hemsky and Eberle already here, asked for a trade? so we never actually traded him because we wanted Kessy so bad.

Yeah, he asked for a trade because he didn't see any opening on the depth chart as RW was stacked at the time. However, if a player is confident in their abilities they will stick with an organization no matter what the depth chart looks like. I'm not going to cry over the trade as the guy wanted out and seemed entitled imo

 

[OilerTyler]

At least the last couple of drafts under Bob Green instead of Stu seem more promising.

Bear, Marino, Paigin, Jones all seem pretty legit.

Our prospects always tend to look good until they get to the AHL.

It's hard for me to get excited for any of those guys until they show they can play at the professional level (or in North America in Paigin's case).

 

[Aceboogie]

i'm starting to believe that it's luck as well. seems only Detroit can identify more mid and later round players that can play in the NHL draft after draft because they look for the same players every draft that they have already had success with. the Oilers should take a serious look at the type of players the Wings take every draft, it can't hurt.

skill, skill , skill and more skill. I dont think theyve ever drafted a low skill grinder or zero offense D.

Hell take a look at Oilers picks that arent zero skill grinders, or goalies and weve actually faired pretty well. Petry, Davidson, Eberle, Marincin, Klefbom, Reider. Lander is on the fence

The Oilers need to stop drafting Ewanyks, Morozs, Musils, Abneys, BCHL overagers, or any form of goalies and well actually fair pretty well

Draft the Yakimovs, Slepyshevs, Platzers, Laleggias, Bears, Jones's, Chases etc. Still a low chance of finding a gem, but atleast you put your team in the hat. This is how Detriot drafts. Every pick is from the 90%. So sure they have a lot of failed prospects and even some bust higher round picks, but every pick has a shot. So thats why they get more "steals"

Funny enough, Paigin is a guy I totally hated at the draft because he had zero offense, but he seems to have found it

 

[Aceboogie]

1st and 2nd round is A LOT more about skill, but even these rounds have sheer luck. Thats the case with 18 year old prospects. You dont know what youll get. I actually think our 1st round picking has been ok. Klefbom, Eberle recently. MPS was a miss pick, but honestly only Ellis, Leddy, Kreider and Kulikov were better picks in 1st round after him. Gagner too but only Voracheck and Couture at that spot were better. Could have picked Hamill

I have a tiny feeling the Oilers have a diamond in their current prospects. Not because they suddenly got better at devleopment or scouting, but just because of dumb luck

 

[Dazed and Confused]

skill, skill , skill and more skill. I dont think theyve ever drafted a low skill grinder or zero offense D.

Hell take a look at Oilers picks that arent zero skill grinders, or goalies and weve actually faired pretty well. Petry, Davidson, Eberle, Marincin, Klefbom, Reider. Lander is on the fence

The Oilers need to stop drafting Ewanyks, Morozs, Musils, Abneys, BCHL overagers, or any form of goalies and well actually fair pretty well

Draft the Yakimovs, Slepyshevs, Platzers, Laleggias, Bears, Jones's, Chases etc. Still a low chance of finding a gem, but atleast you put your team in the hat. This is how Detriot drafts. Every pick is from the 90%. So sure they have a lot of failed prospects and even some bust higher round picks, but every pick has a shot. So thats why they get more "steals"

Funny enough, Paigin is a guy I totally hated at the draft because he had zero offense, but he seems to have found it

Pretty much this, I'm not sure I agree with you on the whole "luck" a part, but this is the nail on the head. I think you can sum it up even easier: don't draft guys (or at least in the first 75 picks), whom you can already find in plenty for a fair price at UFA.


I've got nothing against Musil but his max upside is 2nd pairing defenceman and much more likely he's a 3rd pairing filler/journeyman, basically Pardy. Same with Moroz, or even Simpson. Sure I believe Simpson has NHL upside, but he's basically Leopold of the last ~5 years. Why bother to develop a guy when you can already find the finished product on the market for ~1million?


You should be using the draft, especially the early rounds, to find guys who can be "cheaper than market value" talent, not guys whom you plan to "round out your roster" with. Otherwise you're better off just filling the spot with a vets.

Plus even from the prospects standpoint it's got to be tough to hear; to be highly draft then told that not much is expected of you. Remember with MAP, and him being pissy about being viewed as "just" a third line centre.

 

[Aceboogie]

Pretty much this, I think you can sum it up even easier, don't draft guys (or at least in the first 75 picks), whom you can already find in plenty for a fair price at UFA.


I've got nothing against Musil but his max upside is 2nd pairing defenceman and much more likely he's a 3rd pairing filler/journeyman, basically Pardy. Same with Moroz, or even Simpson. Sure I believe Simpson has NHL upside, but he's basically Leopold of the last ~5 years. Why bother to develop a guy when you can already find the finished product on the market for ~1million?


You should be using the draft, especially the early rounds, to find guys who can be "cheaper than market value" talent, not guys who you plan to "round out your roster" with. Otherwise you're better off just filling the spot with a vets.

Plus even from the prospects standpoint it's got to be tough to hear; to be highly draft then told that not much is expected of you. Remember with MAP, and him being pissy about being viewed as "just" a third line centre.

Yup, bingo. Or look at a guy like Maroon, acquired for a 4th. Weve probably spent 7 years and 6 or 7 draft picks trying to find this exact guy. But the finished product was had for almost nothing at a insanely cheap contract. Or Kassian, while not as good, is another guy weve been looking for for years. Do I really expect Khaira/ Yakimov to be better in NHL then Kassian has been and likely will be in future? nope. If you look at the waiver wire the past 3 years, so good depth guys have been acquired on them.

We should be spending all our picks on high upside risk/reward picks. Guys with tremendous skill but maybe smaller or have some blemish. Then fill our depth with waiver pick ups and cheap trades. And not every pick will be a 5'9 skill guy, youll find some big 6'2 guy with skill and scoring but skating issues. He could end up as depth player in 4 years, or could end up as top 6.

Just go for skill, as much as you can. Pick goalies rarely too. Can sign college/Europe free agents or can trade for them. Maybe pick 1 every 2 years

 

[SometimesY]

I'm sure we will have some surprise picks, like every other team. The trick is to be patient and give them opportunity.
If all else fails we need to look at bugging other teams scouting offices and cameras that zoom in on draft sheets.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yup, bingo. Or look at a guy like Maroon, acquired for a 4th. Weve probably spent 7 years and 6 or 7 draft picks trying to find this exact guy. But the finished product was had for almost nothing at a insanely cheap contract. Or Kassian, while not as good, is another guy weve been looking for for years. Do I really expect Khaira/ Yakimov to be better in NHL then Kassian has been and likely will be in future? nope. If you look at the waiver wire the past 3 years, so good depth guys have been acquired on them.

We should be spending all our picks on high upside risk/reward picks. Guys with tremendous skill but maybe smaller or have some blemish. Then fill our depth with waiver pick ups and cheap trades. And not every pick will be a 5'9 skill guy, youll find some big 6'2 guy with skill and scoring but skating issues. He could end up as depth player in 4 years, or could end up as top 6.

Just go for skill, as much as you can. Pick goalies rarely too. Can sign college/Europe free agents or can trade for them. Maybe pick 1 every 2 years

I think you should be looking for a trait that separates your guy from the pack.

Truth be told, this is why I actually really like Khaira and Yakimov, they can stand out, but a guy like Lander, Roy, Musil, Moroz; what defines them? What do they do that is a hard to come by trait/skill? skill, skating, shooting, passing, strength/size, hockey sense, nothing at all?

 

[Aceboogie]

I think you should be looking for a trait that separates your guy from the pack.

Truth be told, this is why I actually really like Khaira and Yakimov, they can stand out, but a guy like Lander, Roy, Musil, Moroz; what defines them? What do they do that is a hard to come by trait/skill? skill, skating, shooting, passing, strength/size, hockey sense, nothing at all?

I think Lander is only guy that doesnt fit in there. He was herlded for really smart two way play, also leadership and heart (which do have some merit). He was a leader on his SEL team and a captain on WJs. I think was a good pick. He was rushed by the Oilers and put in a bad spot. This yera im not sure whats up with him. But atleast hes somewhat of an NHler. But I agree with Roy/Moroz and others

 

[Up the Irons]

skill, skill , skill and more skill. I dont think theyve ever drafted a low skill grinder or zero offense D.

Hell take a look at Oilers picks that arent zero skill grinders, or goalies and weve actually faired pretty well. Petry, Davidson, Eberle, Marincin, Klefbom, Reider. Lander is on the fence

The Oilers need to stop drafting Ewanyks, Morozs, Musils, Abneys, BCHL overagers, or any form of goalies and well actually fair pretty well

Draft the Yakimovs, Slepyshevs, Platzers, Laleggias, Bears, Jones's, Chases etc. Still a low chance of finding a gem, but atleast you put your team in the hat. This is how Detriot drafts. Every pick is from the 90%. So sure they have a lot of failed prospects and even some bust higher round picks, but every pick has a shot. So thats why they get more "steals"

Funny enough, Paigin is a guy I totally hated at the draft because he had zero offense, but he seems to have found it

Nailed it. And to think, Musil and Moroz were both 31st overall?!?!

 

[Up the Irons]

Pretty much this, I'm not sure I agree with you on the whole "luck" a part, but this is the nail on the head. I think you can sum it up even easier: don't draft guys (or at least in the first 75 picks), whom you can already find in plenty for a fair price at UFA.
.

MacT said as much. He changed the drafting philosophy from that of Tambo ( who may have lost his job In large part b/c of the Musil/Jenner debacle). In the first 3 rounds you take players that at least have a chance to be top 6 forwards and top 4 Dmen.

 

[joestevens29]

Hopefully Davidson can turn into one of those gems along with Simpson. Khaira is also looking good, but like Simpson they are more likely to be complimentary players.