Speculation: How to open up 2nd buyout window to buyout Raymond

[Lunatik]

You're right, but he's one of the best play drivers as of right now. And he could be had for awful cheap.

Okay, let me see if I can help you understand.

Byron would get signed this year.
Raymond would get bought out.
The only risk to Byron is him not wanting to return in 2016-17

 

[Beats By CoRD]

This is all very interesting and all. But the real question is: what did Stewie get for dinner?

 

[Lunatik]

Byron will be on the team this year, Hartley loves him.

No one said he wouldn't

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Byron is expendable because there are a lot of guys that hockey better than he does on this team now and in the future. There is a reason he has been in like zero potential line combinations posted since the Frolik signing. He's a fringe player.

 

[Lunatik]

This is all very interesting and all. But the real question is: what did Stewie get for dinner?

Ginger Beef (both the food and the restaurant)

It was delicious.

 

[Lunatik]

Lineup I expect:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Colborne - Bennett - Jones
Bouma - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland/Bollig - Stajan - Shore/Jooris

Then we still have Byron & Raymond. Something has to give. Someone will end up injured so we will be able to find a spot for Byron, but we need to dump Raymond and quite frankly I'd rather not pay someone to take him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

You're right, but he's one of the best play drivers as of right now. And he could be had for awful cheap.

Do the advance numbers show how often the play dies on his stick?

 

[MonyontheMoney]

No one said he wouldn't

Fair enough, I just took you saying that you didn't think he was good enough to make the team as saying he wouldn't play on the Flames next year.

 

[RedHot]

Do the advance numbers show how often the play dies on his stick?

No, but they show how much he helps other players in getting the puck going the opposite way.

 

[RedHot]

Okay, let me see if I can help you understand.

Byron would get signed this year.
Raymond would get bought out.
The only risk to Byron is him not wanting to return in 2016-17

Yeah, I get the point, the Raymond buyout is the end goal. You didn't need to waste time looking up a file on google images.

Im saying Byron is decently valuable to a poor possession team, at least short term. Didn't seem like you guys liked Byron based on your original posts

 

[RedHot]

Although, I do agree that there might not even be a spot for him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

No, but they show how much he helps other players in getting the puck going the opposite way.

That's my problem with them, they're not evolved enough yet. What good are his possession numbers if 50% of the time the play dies on his stick?

Raymond is really fast, when he attacks the offensive zone he looks really good at times. But he has a below average shot, he's an average finisher and when he carries the puck in the offensive zone, more times than not he turns the puck over, he also gets muscled off the puck very easily. All this results in extremely inconsistent offence. And lastly to add to that point, it's my opinion he negatively affects his linesmates production.

I just think he's a poor fit on our team, but may have success somewhere else.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

^^ I believe he was talking about Byron

 

[Ace Rimmer]

^^ I believe he was talking about Byron

The play often dies on Byron's stick as well.

Although this thread isn't necessarily about Byron...

 

[Lunatik]

^^ I believe he was talking about Byron

so the counter argument would be how many scoring chances against does he create with shots that miss the net and hit the post which immediately cause us to lose possession but do not hurt his possession numbers because it was a shot attempt.

 

[CraigsList]

We don't have to buy out Raymond. A team would take him if he was to be traded.

 

[Starix]

If he has any value better of trading him at 50% retained. 1.6ish cap hit for 2 years versus 1 mil for 4 years buying him out.

There will always be injuries, better for him to warm the press box and have the prospects playing in Stockton.

 

[herashak]

"You miss 100% of the shots you do take" - Paul Byron

 

[MonyontheMoney]

so the counter argument would be home many scoring chances against does he create with shots that miss the net and hit the post which immediately cause us to lose possession but do not hurt his possession numbers because it was a shot attempt.

I wasn't arguing anything...

Just pointing out how he was mistaking another posters comments about Byron as being about Raymond

 

[Lunatik]

I wasn't arguing anything...

Just pointing out how he was mistaking another posters comments about Byron as being about Raymond

and I was providing the argument against Byron for Hox

 

[GAMO1992]

Brad doesn't operate that way guy. He just traded Reinhart who was being further and further pushed down of our depth charts.
If Treliving had any deal in place for Raymond, the trigger woulda been pulled already IMO. Raymonds got 2 more years and @ $3M are just too much for a player of his inconsistencies. Even if we retain 50% thats still 1.5M for a guy that was a healthy scratch more often then not. To be rid of his contract we'd have to add a pick just for a team to take him off our hands.

Long story short: Unless some team gets really desperate for scoring depth, he's gonna play out this year, and be bought out. Just what I think.

 

[RedHot]

so the counter argument would be home many scoring chances against does he create with shots that miss the net and hit the post which immediately cause us to lose possession but do not hurt his possession numbers because it was a shot attempt.

Not nearly enough to discount his good numbers. This is a player, who when he is on the ice, the puck is directed towards the net more often with everyone he played with on the 2104 - 2015 Flames. With the exception of Diaz.

Russell and Wideman's numbers both went up 5 % with Byron.

I'd say thats worth a few posts, or a missed shot

 

[Calculon]

Brad doesn't operate that way guy. He just traded Reinhart who was being further and further pushed down of our depth charts.
If Treliving had any deal in place for Raymond, the trigger woulda been pulled already IMO. Raymonds got 2 more years and @ $3M are just too much for a player of his inconsistencies. Even if we retain 50% thats still 1.5M for a guy that was a healthy scratch more often then not. To be rid of his contract we'd have to add a pick just for a team to take him off our hands.

Long story short: Unless some team gets really desperate for scoring depth, he's gonna play out this year, and be bought out. Just what I think.

If Raymond gets moved, it would be in mid summer or near training camp. Right now, the teams that could be fits, like New Jersey, are
likely considering their options and looking for better players/deals. If those don't pan out, then there's a chance they'll take a flyer on Raymond. But it'll be a long summer before then.

 

[Lunatik]

Not nearly enough to discount his good numbers. This is a player, who when he is on the ice, the puck is directed towards the net more often with everyone he played with on the 2104 - 2015 Flames. With the exception of Diaz.

Russell and Wideman's numbers both went up 5 % with Byron.

I'd say thats worth a few posts, or a missed shot

I have no issue with Byron, he's just a frustrating player, but even you yourself admitted there may not be room for him. So I am not sure why you continue to argue when that is the whole premise.

 

[GAMO1992]

If Raymond gets moved, it would be in mid summer or near training camp. Right now, the teams that could be fits, like New Jersey, are
likely considering their options and looking for better players/deals. If those don't pan out, then there's a chance they'll take a flyer on Raymond. But it'll be a long summer before then.

Exactly. Gonna be a while before any rumblings of "Raymond to ..." come out. Gonna be a long summer for MayRay.