How the handling of Grabo screwed the leafs.

[Joey Hoser]

Hilarious how you mention trading a second rounder and Jesse Blacker and make zero mention of the player we got in return for them as if he doesn't exist.

Agenda much?

 

[Fogelhund]

In case anybody isn't paying attention.. Grabovski is currently out, as a result of skating with his head down and taking another big hit. I like the player, but his future is questionable at some point with the way he plays.

Getting rid of Colborne was a mistake IMO.

Bolland... bad luck more than anything.

I don't care about the D men we got rid of too much, not Liles or Komisarek...

Resigning some of the players was dumb..

 

[Kubus]

I think we had another year where we could have used the compliance buyout, I might be wrong. But I think we should have kept Grabo for one extra year and tried to move him, instead of using the buyout on him. Komi also was a really weird move. And the really bad moves were how we used the new cap space.

 

[thewave]

Never had a problem with trading Grabo. You just had to cast him in a role that would increase hi value. Ideally you could trade him knocking 1m off his cap or none at all. That was the problem.

Randy got what he wanted, the guy was an asset vampire for us. Anything he didn't like he would not work around opting to chew out and chew through that asset who would be discarded for nothing.

Carlyle was terrible for that. Not smart enough to understand cap implications and have the teams best long term interests in mind. Nonis was to weak to stand up and just went out and traded for injury prone rental Bolland and junk Clarkson.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It was unneeded thats the point you dont see. Grabos just as good, if not better. Why the hell do you buy out a player that plays like Grabs for a guy like Bolland. It was a detrimental move and here we are.

I remember Dave Nonis had said the Blackhawks had previously asked for their 1st round pick in 2013 for Bolland. Now that was the 21st pick and they used it to select Frederik Gauthier. Had they decided to trade it instead of giving up a 2nd, 4th in 2013 and a 4th in 2014, would it have been better? It seems that when and if Gauthier makes the NHL they have him as a 3rd line player, so is Nonis dumb for not giving up a low 1st round pick for Bolland or more dumb for giving up three later round picks for him?

 

[silentbob37*]

The only thing about Grabovski that screwed that Leafs is when Burke gave 2 million dollars more then he was worth.

 

[Tak7]

Grabo should have been dealt instead of being re signed by Burke during our first cliff dive when we were sitting out of a playoff spot at the t/d .

Colborne's 25 and has 6 goals in 41 games playing 15 mins a night while also getting a 1:40 avg per game on the pp so i don't understand what people are whining about .

The mistake wasn't buying Grabo out , the mistake as others have said was using the cap space to sign Clarkson .

The whinging about Colborne is because it fundamentally highlights the issues with the team's philosophy with young players. They gave up on a bottom 6 guy too quickly, in favour of enforcers, and then burnt a 2nd round pick trying to rectify that mistake.

Make a mistake. Mortgage the future to correct the mistake. Rinse. Repeat. 1967.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Never had a problem with trading Grabo. You just had to cast him in a role that would increase hi value. Ideally you could trade him knocking 1m off his cap or none at all. That was the problem.

Randy got what he wanted, the guy was an asset vampire for us. Anything he didn't like he would not work around opting to chew out and chew through that asset who would be discarded for nothing.

Carlyle was terrible for that. Not smart enough to understand cap implications and have the teams best long term interests in mind. Nonis was to weak to stand up and just went out and traded for injury prone rental Bolland and junk Clarkson.

Grabovski was simply overrated here by many posters, and he is still being overrated. Despite being a player that is paid 5-5.5M per of having 16, 35, and 19 point seasons in succession.

He was placed in the #3C role because of Kadri. Carlyle had no other place to put him, remember this was the context all along. Grabo was only a #2C on a bad team, and when this team marginally improved he would be moved out.

This is what happened, KGM had one good year, and we still missed the playoffs. Grabo had one horrific year and we made the playoffs. He was never a factor to this team's success.

 

[Tak7]

Grabovski was simply overrated here by many posters, and he is still being overrated. Despite being a player that is paid 5-5.5M per of having 16, 35, and 19 point seasons in succession.

He was placed in the #3C role because of Kadri. Carlyle had no other place to put him, remember this was the context all along. Grabo was only a #2C on a bad team, and when this team marginally improved he would be moved out.

This is what happened, KGM had one good year, and we still missed the playoffs. Grabo had one horrific year and we made the playoffs. He was never a factor to this team's success.

Since when does one player determine a team's success? How many playoff series has Ovechkin won?

Also - KGM may have had one very good season, but what did the Leafs do?

MacArthur - let go for nothing. Now a cheap, effective 1st line player.

Grabo - bought out.. Now playing for one of the best teams in the league and has drawn ice time with one of the best players in the league. Not good enough for Toronto, but good enough Tavares? Lol

Kulie - let go for nothing. Now playing in a goo role / niche that suits him did one of the better teams in the league.

Whether you think Grabo or others were overrated is irrelevant. The point is asset management has been a disaster for this team

 

[Gallagbi]

Since when does one player determine a team's success? How many playoff series has Ovechkin won?

Also - KGM may have had one very good season, but what did the Leafs do?

MacArthur - let go for nothing. Now a cheap, effective 1st line player.

Grabo - bought out.. Now playing for one of the best teams in the league and has drawn ice time with one of the best players in the league. Not good enough for Toronto, but good enough Tavares? Lol

Kulie - let go for nothing. Now playing in a goo role / niche that suits him did one of the better teams in the league.

Whether you think Grabo or others were overrated is irrelevant. The point is asset management has been a disaster for this team

Where Interactif and a few others struggle is the idea of what Grabo could have been.

Nobody (or very few) are saying he's the #1C the Leafs desperately need. The argument is the buyout was too early and unnecessary. Wait a season, see his value at that point then determine what to do with him.

There's a good chance he would have played himself in to a trade able asset or at the very worst confirmed himself as a necessary buyout player.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Since when does one player determine a team's success? How many playoff series has Ovechkin won?

Also - KGM may have had one very good season, but what did the Leafs do?

MacArthur - let go for nothing. Now a cheap, effective 1st line player.

Grabo - bought out.. Now playing for one of the best teams in the league and has drawn ice time with one of the best players in the league. Not good enough for Toronto, but good enough Tavares? Lol

Kulie - let go for nothing. Now playing in a goo role / niche that suits him did one of the better teams in the league.

Whether you think Grabo or others were overrated is irrelevant. The point is asset management has been a disaster for this team

With the exception of his 2010-2011 season when Kulemin scored 30 goals, his totals after that with the Leafs was 7, 7, 9 goals during the 2011-2012, 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 seasons. So how can you explain that huge of a drop off for him?

As for MacArthur while he did have a very good first two years in Toronto with 21 and 20 goals, maybe it was the way Randy Carlyle used him but why else besides him did his ice time and play go bad? He was named an Alternate Captain prior to the 2012-2013 season, so for him to be made a healthy scratch a few times that season something was not right.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Since when does one player determine a team's success? How many playoff series has Ovechkin won?

Also - KGM may have had one very good season, but what did the Leafs do?

MacArthur - let go for nothing. Now a cheap, effective 1st line player.

Grabo - bought out.. Now playing for one of the best teams in the league and has drawn ice time with one of the best players in the league. Not good enough for Toronto, but good enough Tavares? Lol

Kulie - let go for nothing. Now playing in a goo role / niche that suits him did one of the better teams in the league.

Whether you think Grabo or others were overrated is irrelevant. The point is asset management has been a disaster for this team

Who claimed this? The fact is Grabovski had a brutal 48 + 7 games the year we made the playoffs, and came within 1 game of going into the 2nd rd, what does this tell you?

It is crystal clear, he is not an important player for this team.

 

[thewave]

Grabovski was simply overrated here by many posters, and he is still being overrated. Despite being a player that is paid 5-5.5M per of having 16, 35, and 19 point seasons in succession.

He was placed in the #3C role because of Kadri. Carlyle had no other place to put him, remember this was the context all along. Grabo was only a #2C on a bad team, and when this team marginally improved he would be moved out.

This is what happened, KGM had one good year, and we still missed the playoffs. Grabo had one horrific year and we made the playoffs. He was never a factor to this team's success.

No offense but Bozak was never as good as Grabo because Bozie has never been very good outside getting points.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No offense but Bozak was never as good as Grabo because Bozie has never been very good outside getting points.

Facts are Grabovski produced less, and was less effective under Carlyle. One would say once Grabovski stopped even producing 51 or 58(career high) points. He was a 5.5 liability as it showed in his 16 point, -10 season. Add on another -10 in the 7 game series we lost in his head to head match up with Krejci. His last 2 seasons are nothing to write home about either, often hurt, and declining production. Where he is not even playing Center this season. The buy out was proven 100% correct.

 

[William Hylander]

The problem is signing Clarkson. Even in your OP you mentioned that signing Clarkson with the added cap flexibility is a problem. Had we not touched Clarktard we could have spent it more wisely (on any other players).

Then again Nonis is at the helm, so Nonis having a GM job is the problem.

 

[-DeMo-]

Since when does one player determine a team's success? How many playoff series has Ovechkin won?

Also - KGM may have had one very good season, but what did the Leafs do?

MacArthur - let go for nothing. Now a cheap, effective 1st line player.

Grabo - bought out.. Now playing for one of the best teams in the league and has drawn ice time with one of the best players in the league. Not good enough for Toronto, but good enough Tavares? Lol

Kulie - let go for nothing. Now playing in a goo role / niche that suits him did one of the better teams in the league.

Whether you think Grabo or others were overrated is irrelevant. The point is asset management has been a disaster for this team

MacArthur is not an effective first line player on any good team, there's a reason why Ottawa is not very good, there top line sucks. his new 4.6 million contract is about to kick in and he's on pace to finish the year with 38 points that's not a cheap effective top line player.

Grabo is not, nor has not played hardly any time with Tavares, when Okposo got hurt they tried him on the line for about 2 periods and then moved him, his top 4 linemates he's played with 5on5 have been Neilson(62%), Kulemin(32.4%), Bailey(25.8%) and Strome(20.2%), so no he's not good enough for Tavares. he's also averaging 14:16 TOI which puts him 8th on NYI for Forwards, he's basically playing on there third line at 5 mill per again not cheap and is overpaid.

 

[Joey Hoser]

You can convince me that we should have kept Grabovski, but at the end of the day I really think it doesn't matter.

Since Grabovski left, Bozak(who we kept instead) has been a 60ish point center for us.

I don't think Grabovski would have been significantly better than that, or be significantly better defensively and in any way changed our fortunes. I just don't think it matters.

Right now Bozak is probably more tradeable than Grabovski is, so I guess I'm glad we kept him.

 

[BlueBaron]

Really speaking, if you look back at it all with 20/20 hindsight, none of it mattered. If we had Clarkson's 5 Mil back would we suddenly be playoff contenders ? If we had kept Grabo and never got Bolland would be in a better position today ? Yeah we'd have whoever we drafted with that 2nd round pick and 4rth round picks but in the grand scheme we would still be in the same spot we are now with 5 extra to spend.

This is a big deal over nothing.

 

[leafs in five]

Really speaking, if you look back at it all with 20/20 hindsight, none of it mattered. If we had Clarkson's 5 Mil back would we suddenly be playoff contenders ? If we had kept Grabo and never got Bolland would be in a better position today ?

no, but we wouldn't have a really bad player on the books at 5 million for another five years.

yes, because draft picks present a chance for a terrible team to get better. it doesn't make sense for a terrible team to not own its own second round pick in consecutive drafts. like it doesn't make sense for a non contending team to sign guys that are role players in the best case to seven year deals.

 

[Trapper]

The problem is signing Clarkson. Even in your OP you mentioned that signing Clarkson with the added cap flexibility is a problem. Had we not touched Clarktard we could have spent it more wisely (on any other players).

Then again Nonis is at the helm, so Nonis having a GM job is the problem.

The problem is everyone you are talking about here, the signings, the buyouts, who was retained, are all just average players. We have no core. Substitute average Joe for average Joe it doesn't matter.
Build a core. These are all puzzle pieces.

 

[BlueBaron]

no, but we wouldn't have a really bad player on the books at 5 million for another five years.

yes, because draft picks present a chance for a terrible team to get better. it doesn't make sense for a terrible team to not own its own second round pick in consecutive drafts. like it doesn't make sense for a non contending team to sign guys that are role players in the best case to seven year deals.

Yes but one player probably would not have changed our fate, so really this is all just moaning over a second round pick ? Get over it and move on man. Bolland was a good idea, it just didn't work out. Cap space should not be an issue for the next couple years. if we are smart we will be well under it next year and hopefully couple more after that until a signing can actually make a serious change to the team. Even having Clarkson for 5 years wont matter much, he can play on the fourth line during the rebuild .

I guess it's a big deal if you are you worried MLSE won't make enough money next year or that the second round pick would have been a sure fire star but I don't think most fans will lose much sleep over it. Not saying the situation was ideal asset management, just that it wasn't the end of the world either.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The problem is everyone you are talking about here, the signings, the buyouts, who was retained, are all just average players. We have no core. Substitute average Joe for average Joe it doesn't matter.
Build a core. These are all puzzle pieces.

It's hard to build said core with a lack of Draft picks and cap room.

I think the main thing about this whole series of unfortunate events is just how poorly utilized all assets involved were. Compliance buyouts, regular buyouts, cap space, draft picks, UFA's, these were all horribly mismanaged by Nonis, Loiselle and Poulin.

 

[-DeMo-]

Yes but one player probably would not have changed our fate, so really this is all just moaning over a second round pick ? Get over it and move on man. Bolland was a good idea, it just didn't work out.

probably close to the same attitude that the leafs management have towards picks, it's just a pick who cares. no wonder we can't produce any NHL talent picked outside the top 10 in the last 5 years.

 

[BlueBaron]

probably close to the same attitude that the leafs management have towards picks, it's just a pick who cares. no wonder we can't produce any NHL talent picked outside the top 10 in the last 5 years.

I think we all value picks here on HF boards, but seriously dude, one second round pick is not the problem. Sometimes it is actually worth trading picks and not all trades work out, welcome to Hockey.

 

[dimi78]

You can convince me that we should have kept Grabovski, but at the end of the day I really think it doesn't matter.

Since Grabovski left, Bozak(who we kept instead) has been a 60ish point center for us.

I don't think Grabovski would have been significantly better than that, or be significantly better defensively and in any way changed our fortunes. I just don't think it matters.

Right now Bozak is probably more tradeable than Grabovski is, so I guess I'm glad we kept him.

Never hit 50 points while playing top minutes with the teams best point producer where you get 60'ish from have no clue..

Grabo was a warrior for this team during his time here. The give a $hit meter was never an issue for this guy that alone would have had a positive impact not to mention no gumption Bozak is crashing to an end here..... that was a bad decision made based on a short season to full fill the stupidity, asset killing head coach's need to run a 5 man shut down unit match up game.

This 5 man shutdown unit match up game of Carlyle's is what led to all these moves including Lilies and Carlyle's hate for PMD and Colbourne never being looked at to be promoted even though his AHL work deserved it.

I think Nonis has learned from his mistake and I can assure you the next head coach will have some type of understanding to not devalue players.

I've said it before and I'll say it again it would take a 3 page essay form post to cover all the things Carlyle f@cked with this organizations future.