Sportsnet: How Senators can use plethora of second-round picks to fill roster needs

[HSF]

We are acquiring Kris Russell. Oilers are trying to clear cap space to trade for OEL. He has a $4mil cap hit, and is getting paid $1.5mil in real salary. You really think Melnyk isn't telling Dorion to sacrifice a 2nd or two to get him?

Nylander

 

[DJB]

Korpisalo is fools gold.

Anyone investing in a net minder that just played in a Trotz or Torts is making an awful mistake.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

What is cap floor - $60.2 m I think. Senators have a projected cap hit of $41.9 m. They only need to spend $18.3 m to hit the floor.

Senators only have 10 players signed. They shouldn't have any problem spending $18.3 m when they have to sign another 13 players to reach a full roster. They don't need "mirage deals" to get to $18.3 m.

Ottawa Senators - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

What's different is that many teams will be needing to shed cap and theoretically would be more willing to retain a bit of salary to get that done. Or, they would move a player they otherwise wouldn't for a very underwhelming return because they have no other choice.

Also, given there will many free agents available with far fewer teams with the cap resources to sign those free agents, there should be a good number of free agent bargains to be had. I remember a debate that even the Senators would pick up a few free agents last year, which they did. This year will be the same, but market conditions will drive those acquisition prices down.

I believe you are right, or at least close with the cap floor number.

I agree they could most definitely exploit the FA market to their benefit, if they want to. The issue is that it won't be the priority... saving money, as much as possible, will be the priority again.

They don't need these contracts to meet the floor, but it's the only way they can save money below that cap floor number, and we saw that was their GM's main focus last summer over adding talent.

Just watch, and feel free to bump this if I'm wrong cuz I say a lot of dumb, wrong shit, but there will be at least a couple contracts brought in this summer and possibly some guys moved or let go that would need to actually be paid their cap in salary, for the sole purpose of saving as much money as possible while still hitting the floor.

 

[Big Muddy]

I believe you are right, or at least close with the cap floor number.

I agree they could most definitely exploit the FA market to their benefit, if they want to. The issue is that it won't be the priority... saving money, as much as possible, will be the priority again.

They don't need these contracts to meet the floor, but it's the only way they can save money below that cap floor number, and we saw that was their GM's main focus last summer over adding talent.

Just watch, and feel free to bump this if I'm wrong cuz I say a lot of dumb, wrong shit, but there will be at least a couple contracts brought in this summer and possibly some guys moved or let go that would need to actually be paid their cap in salary, for the sole purpose of saving as much money as possible while still hitting the floor.

Well, lets see what happens. I'm no clairvoyant either. It just seems like there wouldn't be a better time for some shrewd, low cost deals/bargains. Plus, Ottawa doesn't have to add that much to reach cap floor. I think Namestnikov salary was the same as his AAV, but maybe that was just an exception.

 

[SensFan1010]

I think the most reasonable target is the islanders 18/20th pick. I think its a bit of a dream to get the 14th from Edm but we can all hope

 

[GCK]

I think the most reasonable target is the islanders 18/20th pick. I think its a bit of a dream to get the 14th from Edm but we can all hope

Or 15 from TO.

 

[Sweatred]

Yeah a lot of the new contracts might be backloaded



Maybe but that's what Melnyk reads after he learns about Russell's salary owed :

"Kris Russell is a hockey player."

This isn't accurate.

 

[SensFan1010]

Or 15 from TO.

Dont think we can give anything toronto needs think theyd be looking more for a rosterable player

 

[Xspyrit]

This isn't accurate.

What is not accurate? This wasn't even facts lmao. One was a supposition and the other was a joke.

Again

 

[Sweatred]

What is not accurate? This wasn't even facts lmao. One was a supposition and the other was a joke.

Again

Yes.. I am aware of the constant EM is a cheepo verbiage your pumping out. That line of thinking has been discredit. He is financially limited compared to other owners but he is spending what he should be based on what this market generates.

It would be more correct to point your joke at the Ottawa fan base based on the revenue they direct towards the team and what it allows the org to spend. It is easier for the team to trade a draft pick for $2 million that increase $2 million of revenue from the fan base. Of course they sell off picks.

 

[Benttheknee]

This is the time for Ottawa to strike. Help out a salary cap crunched team by taking a salary on, and use that to move up in the draft. So the 28th for the ~20th and a Vet cap dump.

I fully expect that the Sens will not be taking 13 picks this draft and they will be moving up and adding players.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Its nice to dream about the sens doing the right thing with their picks and cap space but then reality comes crashing in and you realize we have an owner and by way of directives a gm who's sole focus is on icing the lowest real dollar team legally acceptable by the league, i suspect the sens will use picks to acquire short term fringe players with higher cap and low real dollars as they have done for a few years now. Furthermore I suspect there is a senators price for these type players and then the price for every other team with the sens price being higher, the team has broadcasted to anyone and everyone that we value real cost high cap players more than any team and its not close imo, i don't see why other teams wouldn't take advantage of this, i know i would!

 

[Xspyrit]

Hey, can anybody find a list of players making significantly less in salary for the remaining years of their contract vs their cap hit?

Like Kris Russell and Loui Eriksson for example.

Or I don't know let's build that list lol

If I was the Canucks I would trade Eriksson for Ryan in a heartbeat. Sens would save 8 M$ over 2 years. Canucks would only take in 1.25 M$ additional cap hit and they would get a good veteran stop gap as their 6th-7th forward, instead of Loui who unfortunately can't do much anymore.

Yes.. I am aware of the constant EM is a cheepo verbiage your pumping out. That line of thinking has been discredit. He is financially limited compared to other owners but he is spending what he should be based on what this market generates.

It would be more correct to point your joke at the Ottawa fan base based on the revenue they direct towards the team and what it allows the org to spend. It is easier for the team to trade a draft pick for $2 million that increase $2 million of revenue from the fan base. Of course they sell off picks.

You accusing somebody of pumping verbiage is delectable

I don't know if you read this board before your joined date on Jan 28, 2019, but regulars here have seen me make the same arguments that you just did AD NAUSEAM. I was not really "defending" Melnyk because I dislike him for his PM persona and the hell he seems to be to work with/for. But yes, I made those exact same arguments, I have talked a lot about the Ottawa market being very weak compared to the 3 surrounding markets (NY, Toronto, Montreal), plus a lack of corporative sales. I have talked a lot about the financial reality the team is in and how hard it has been to keep up with the cap continuing to rise.

So I was not in the "boycott Melnyk" camp and I don't think I have ever called him "El Cheapo". I just want him to sell the team, leave the opportunity to someone else to realize the downtown arena project and that has the financial backbone (like he did 17 years ago) to invest in the team in good and bad years. There's markets that have struggled for a longer time but the owners keep injecting that money. They unfortunately (for them) might not have the right staff to draft and develop properly.

So yes based on his financial reality of his team, Melnyk might still want to acquire a player that is paid 37.5% of his cap hit, regardless if he is good or not. They're still rebuilding and they need to reach the cap floor.

 

[Leafmealone11]

Its nice to dream about the sens doing the right thing with their picks and cap space but then reality comes crashing in and you realize we have an owner and by way of directives a gm who's sole focus is on icing the lowest real dollar team legally acceptable by the league, i suspect the sens will use picks to acquire short term fringe players with higher cap and low real dollars as they have done for a few years now. Furthermore I suspect there is a senators price for these type players and then the price for every other team with the sens price being higher, the team has broadcasted to anyone and everyone that we value real cost high cap players more than any team and its not close imo, i don't see why other teams wouldn't take advantage of this, i know i would!

Again with the “owner” what you need to do is replace the word owner with revenue stream.
The reality is they have a revenue stream that does not allow big spending

 

[Sweatred]

Hey, can anybody find a list of players making significantly less in salary for the remaining years of their contract vs their cap hit?

So yes based on his financial reality of his team, Melnyk might still want to acquire a player that is paid 37.5% of his cap hit, regardless if he is good or not. They're still rebuilding and they need to reach the cap floor.

Sounds like an excellent management decision to me. Let's embrace it as one instead of constantly complaining about it... unless anyone has a way to sell 40 000 $50 tickets a couple times over.

 

[Xspyrit]

Sounds like an excellent management decision to me. Let's embrace it as one instead of constantly complaining about it... unless anyone has a way to sell 40 000 $50 tickets.

We don't disagree here. Sens need a new arena downtow, and a new owner that is ready to lose money now for a better tomorrow.

I used to be very annoyed by constant complaining, eventually I got a bit more used to it. It's like I suddenly realized what the internet was.

 

[DJB]

We aren't going to make a deal to acquire a cap dump to move up in the draft or acquire another pick.


We had an offer of Marleau and a 1st to Ottawa for nothing and we turned it down.

Why turn that gift down last year but suddenly do something similar this year?

Melnyk doesn't do any deals that involve $$$ coming in.

 

[Sweatred]

We don't disagree here. Sens need a new arena downtow, and a new owner that is ready to lose money now for a better tomorrow.

I don't want to derail this thread... but I don't think many ownership groups lose much more money than Melynk currently is. Not the healthy ones anyway. I'm not sure we would see a new ownership group direct much more resources to the payroll than EM was through 2017 .

Staying on topic each, 2ND round pick is close to value of 40 000 $50 tickets. As a fan base, no one wants to see these converted to cash but this is also the fan base that doesn't want to buy tickets and the same fan base that wants our ownership to spend similar to teams with 25% more revenue.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Yes.. I am aware of the constant EM is a cheepo verbiage your pumping out. That line of thinking has been discredit. He is financially limited compared to other owners but he is spending what he should be based on what this market generates.

It would be more correct to point your joke at the Ottawa fan base based on the revenue they direct towards the team and what it allows the org to spend. It is easier for the team to trade a draft pick for $2 million that increase $2 million of revenue from the fan base. Of course they sell off picks.

“That line of thinking has been discredit” says the one of maybe 3 people making arguments which has been repeatedly refuted by the vast majority of the board, while also ignoring a decade long pattern of alienating every single aspect of the hockey/business/political/staff/fan communities.
This is coincidentally exactly the same pattern he had in his business life where he was a reviled liar forced out of his own company.

He’s a dirtbag, and everyone in Ottawa (especially the business community which he needs given the economic structure of this city) can’t stand him on a personal level. That’s all on him, no one else. It’s his job to cultivate those people/businesses and instead he has driven them away.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I don't want to derail this thread... but I don't think many ownership groups lose much more money than Melynk currently is. Not the healthy ones anyway. I'm not sure we would see a new ownership group direct much more resources to the payroll than EM was through 2017 .

Staying on topic each, 2ND round pick is close to value of 40 000 $50 tickets. As a fan base, no one wants to see these converted to cash but this is also the fan base that doesn't want to buy tickets and the same fan base that wants our ownership to spend similar to teams with 25% more revenue.

Have to agree about your second point and find it pretty brave to call yourself and your fellow die hards out for not financially supporting the team better, letting the rest of us casual lesser fans down....come on, do better!

 

[Sweatred]

He’s a dirtbag, and everyone in Ottawa (especially the business community which he needs given the economic structure of this city) can’t stand him on a personal level. That’s all on him, no one else. It’s his job to cultivate those people/businesses and instead he has driven them away.

I 100% agree with this. I also can't find any evidence that he skims or pockets any more money from the team than the majority of other owners. It appears as if he makes less than most ownership groups. If you told me he was pocketing $20 million a year I'd be annoyed. I just can't find that in the revenue data. Lots of owners make $50+. It appears he makes <$5.

 

[GCK]

Dont think we can give anything toronto needs think theyd be looking more for a rosterable player

We grab Fleury and an asset For Nilsson from Vegas retain half move him to TO for Andersen. We also give them Gaborik which they can use on LTIR, helps with cap on roster set day.

TO gets a perceived upgrade in goal at a 3.5 cap hit for 2 years and cap relief.

Vegas gets cap relief to sign the Lehner.

Ottawa upgrades Nilsson to Andersen. Year 1 dollars in 4.25. Year 1 dollars out 3.4. Year 2 dollars out 0. Year 2 dollars in 3M.

Year 1 cap hit increases by 1.2M. Year 2 cap hit of 3.5M.

Ottawa then goes Hogberg and Daccord in 2021/22 at less than 3M total.

 

[Leafmealone11]

I don't want to derail this thread... but I don't think many ownership groups lose much more money than Melynk currently is. Not the healthy ones anyway. I'm not sure we would see a new ownership group direct much more resources to the payroll than EM was through 2017 .

Staying on topic each, 2ND round pick is close to value of 40 000 $50 tickets. As a fan base, no one wants to see these converted to cash but this is also the fan base that doesn't want to buy tickets and the same fan base that wants our ownership to spend similar to teams with 25% more revenue.

I think he should have a 2 tier system where you can choose to pay 10 or 15 dollars more per ticket with a 100% guarantee that every penny of that money will go towards players. Live tracking and proof of spending. Then the fans can put up or shut up.

 

[GCK]

We aren't going to make a deal to acquire a cap dump to move up in the draft or acquire another pick.


We had an offer of Marleau and a 1st to Ottawa for nothing and we turned it down.

Why turn that gift down last year but suddenly do something similar this year?

Melnyk doesn't do any deals that involve $$$ coming in.

I don’t remember anything indicating TO offered the Marleau package to Ottawa. Where did you see/hear this.

 

[Big Muddy]

Hossa is LTIR and I think Steppan is getting move (to Ottawa ?).

A team does not get the full AAV of a player when they put the player on LTIR unless the team was right against the cap at the end of the preseason. So, unless Arizona is right against the $81.5 maximum cap, they won't get the full $5.275 m from placing Hossa on LTIR. Some ppl assume (in this situation) that it means Arizona will have $5.275 more to spend.

To move Stepan's $6 m salary (especially in this cap constrained environment), it would require sending some salary back for most potential trading partners.

The other option that would avoid getting cap back would be to attach a significant asset as an enticement. Arizona has no 1st or 2nd round in this year's draft, and no 1st round in next year's draft. So the idea of using picks as an enticement isn't particularly feasible.

Arizona could use a prospect as a sweetner. Soderstrom, D or Barrett Hayton, C would be good targets for the Senators to try to land, but I can imagine those are the kind of prospects the Yotes would want to hang on to.

Others have mentioned a goaltender as the sweetner. Raanta only has one year left on his contract, while Kuemper has 2 years. Taking Raanta & Stepan off the Yotes hands would pretty much be a big favor to Yotes and something that they'd love (a lifesaver). It could be just a stop gap, and the Senators could be looking for a goalie again in another year. If Ottawa was evening remotely considering this option, then Dorion should be squeezing Arizona really hard for another asset like a good prospect.

I think age appropriate prospects and ELCs (maybe RFAs) should be the targets that the Senators are aiming at. Don't think you could consider it a job well done if Dorion is not able to take advantage of this unique situation.