How much will goalie equipment shrink this summer?
- Thread starter Stonewall
- Start date
Bull, if it was there to protect your knees the risers would be contoured to your thigh not stick up from your knee whilst in the butterfly. Most goalies are wearing CF hard knee pads to protect them from pucks.
I also notice how square padding has become. Older, bigger pads were rounded at the edges allowing many more pucks to squeak through or glance up and in, no chance of that with current pad design
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Oh look, it's this thread again.
I don't know if there's a position in any sport as vilified as the hockey goalie.
To simply answer the question, not enough. You may see a small spike in the first season or two, but eventually defensive schemes and goalies will find the most effective ways at defending resulting in SV% that trends up.
Goalies are just too good nowadays, and are getting better at a rate faster than forwards or defensemen.
I don't know if there's a position in any sport as vilified as the hockey goalie.
To simply answer the question, not enough. You may see a small spike in the first season or two, but eventually defensive schemes and goalies will find the most effective ways at defending resulting in SV% that trends up.
Goalies are just too good nowadays, and are getting better at a rate faster than forwards or defensemen.
The answer is, not enough to make a difference long term then the same people will ignore the fact that it has been getting smaller and they will lament it again and deman that it get smaller again. Rinse lather repeat.
haseoke39
Registered User
- Mar 29, 2011
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Only area that should meaningfully shrink is the extra length of the pads over the thighs, which effectively become 5 hole shields that aren't covering any part of the body when the goalie is in the butterfly. Not only would this make a really invulnerable area vulnerable again, but it would make it harder for goalies to play the boring, technically flawless game they play from that position.
I've played goal for a decade or so. When I got those new pads, it absolutely changed my style. Butterfly was suddenly easy to play and shut down the 5 hole. It made me a more boring goalie, too, as all the extra bulk of the modern pads discouraged me from flying in all direction on the ice, rather setting up and just absorbing shots in the wall of my lower body. Made me better, so I can't go back, but we'd all benefit from a form fitting knee protector and shorter leg pads.
I've played goal for a decade or so. When I got those new pads, it absolutely changed my style. Butterfly was suddenly easy to play and shut down the 5 hole. It made me a more boring goalie, too, as all the extra bulk of the modern pads discouraged me from flying in all direction on the ice, rather setting up and just absorbing shots in the wall of my lower body. Made me better, so I can't go back, but we'd all benefit from a form fitting knee protector and shorter leg pads.
Stonewall
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- Jan 14, 2013
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Good post, we now have some firsthand evidence.
People say that shrinking the goalie equipment won't do anything, but if goalies need to play differently then entire defenses will have to play differently as well.
Plus it's not just about high scoring. You rarely see saves like this anymore:
because goalies don't need to make them
MikeyMike01
U.S.S. Wang
CaptBrannigan
Registered User
As a goalie and someone who makes their living selling hockey gear, I hope the shoulders of the C/A are no longer allowed to rise above the goalie's real shoulders and that the trapper is trimmed a little, particularly on the cuff.
Some goalies have such a high rise on the shoulders that it reached their ears! Murray and Crawford are particularly egregious here. It's unnecessary, protecting only net and not an inch of the actual body.
Trappers still have a rather large section on the thumb side of the wrist. There's a more than puck sized chunk that can be removed from every make and model in the past 10 years that's covering only net, there's no body behind it that's being protected.
My two cents. Pad thigh rises could still stand to be shrunk a little on most goalies too.
Edit: want to add on that for real change to take place, a fundamental shift would have to occur. The problem isn't only with pro guys and their custom modifications and specs, but at the retail level also. A lot of the standard sizing on off the shelf products is crazy! The eternal struggle is balancing the safety of the goalie, both pro and John Q Public.
Some goalies have such a high rise on the shoulders that it reached their ears! Murray and Crawford are particularly egregious here. It's unnecessary, protecting only net and not an inch of the actual body.
Trappers still have a rather large section on the thumb side of the wrist. There's a more than puck sized chunk that can be removed from every make and model in the past 10 years that's covering only net, there's no body behind it that's being protected.
My two cents. Pad thigh rises could still stand to be shrunk a little on most goalies too.
Edit: want to add on that for real change to take place, a fundamental shift would have to occur. The problem isn't only with pro guys and their custom modifications and specs, but at the retail level also. A lot of the standard sizing on off the shelf products is crazy! The eternal struggle is balancing the safety of the goalie, both pro and John Q Public.
romba
Registered User
If that's what it take to get rid of butterfly enabling padding then lets go back to all wood sticks. NHL will never do it though because they love every player having elite velocity on their wrist shots. Due to composite sticks the difference between today's elite wrist shot goal scorers and the non elite is pretty much accuracy and ability to get off a strong disguised release mid stride and at odd angles. Kind of sad.
Doctor No
Registered User
This is crazy! Look how much net's showing in this classic photo:
Now look at this one!
There's just nothing to shoot at. Come on, NHL.
Now look at this one!
There's just nothing to shoot at. Come on, NHL.
WhalerTurnedBruin55
Fading out, thanks for the times.
- Oct 31, 2008
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This guy rarely used his pads...
Yet he somehow kept making the save!
Hasek was absolutely ridiculous at times.
Al McInnis shot the puck harder than 99% of todays composite stick shooters.
Don't recall a goalie ever having a knee injury due to taking a shot before.
The point is there's just more players that can shoot hard. But the puck isn't being shot any harder than the hardest shooters from the 80's.
The release is faster but the velocity isn't any greater.
The extra padding for safety is a lie. It's there for one reason. To help the goalie do his job.
Because never have fans ever felt so cheated by a position.
Goaltending used to be the most exciting position in hockey. Now it's the lamest.
The equipment is a slap in the face to the fans. As soon as safety is brought up you can smell the horse crap from a mile away. As soon as a goalie retires they all agree the padding isn't there for safety.
Doctor No
Registered User
Going by that metric just put them in bubbles. You're going right back to the defence the goalies use now.
You can justify any type of padding as safety.
Make the pads bigger... it couldn't hurt safety wise.
There comes a time when reason and common sense are required. That time has long passed.
Spector pretty much sums up the absolute joke that goalie equipment is currently.
As fans we should be pissed.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/why-its-time-to-call-nhl-goaltenders-bluff/
Doctor No
Registered User
Okay. What in your responses addresses what I said? You quoted it, so you must have done so for a reason.
Stonewall
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This article is good news because it sounds like they are actually serious about shrinking goalie equipment.
They decreased the size of goalie equipment once or twice since the lockout but the effect of that was completely insignificant.
Edit: You know what's funny about that Mike Richter pic above? He looks like that while standing up. Goalies today look like that while in butterfly position. But you can tell that Richter ballooned from the early 90s to the late 90s/2000s. I wonder what his diet was.
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BackHandShelf22
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- Apr 12, 2014
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Yes there's a big difference from pads of 15-20 years ago. Much like sticks, and helmets, and other various things in life. That will happen when you allow enough time to pass allowing evolution.
Believe it or not, there's a middle ground between slicing chunks away and keeping modern pads as is. Corey Hirsch did a piece on sportsnet this year that essentially cuts down certain elements of today's goalie that should at very least create a few extra gaps without taking too much away. It's a win/win.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/hirsch-explains-how-to-fix-the-problem-with-goalie-equipment-2/
Believe it or not, there's a middle ground between slicing chunks away and keeping modern pads as is. Corey Hirsch did a piece on sportsnet this year that essentially cuts down certain elements of today's goalie that should at very least create a few extra gaps without taking too much away. It's a win/win.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/hirsch-explains-how-to-fix-the-problem-with-goalie-equipment-2/
Stonewall
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No one is suggesting that goalies start using early 90s equipment. That video is exactly what needs to be done. The goalie actually looks like a player.
And BTW there is a huge difference between Jofa helmets and wooden sticks. I personally think it hurts the inegrity of the game to not require wooden sticks, but that's another story.
romba
Registered User
Pretty sure the 'save the pads' goalie contingent does not agree with Hirsch's assessment and recommendations. Their response is that any change will either compromise goalie safety or won't make a difference in save percentage (as evidenced by the ginormous changes the NHL made since the lockout that have only improved save percentage. Yes, they want you to believe that smaller pads= higher save percentage. 'Mobility' lol).
The truth is that a real cut down on pads will absolutely lower save percentages, dramatically at first. The best will adapt and recover their stats but only to a certain extent- we'll definitely see a new average.
blankall
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- Jul 4, 2007
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If technology was the issue, then pads should have gotten lighter and smaller with new materials. Modern plastics and Kevelar were not available 30+ years ago. The opposite has happened, and it happened because goalies sought to gain an edge by pushing the rules for equipment size.
BackHandShelf22
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- Apr 12, 2014
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Lighter yes. More impact resistant yes. Why would getting smaller be the natural progression of technological development for goalie pads? Doesn't make any sense especially with shooters along with their sticks getting much more precise.
NHL sets the rules. Equipment manufacturers along with players do they job by getting everything they can out of the rules in place. It's competitive advantage.
HamiltonNHL
Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
- Jan 4, 2012
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