How much longer can Branch stay on?
- Thread starter Nabru
- Start date
Is Saginaw #2? Erie hasn't been great lately but I can't imagine they're that high.
Not a fan of Branch at all but many of those can be attributed to other factors and aren't directly his fault.
What I don't get is how he is CHL and OHL commissioner. Isn't that a bit of a conflict of interest?
EDIT: You could also probably consider the mess in Sudbury.
Not a fan of Branch at all but many of those can be attributed to other factors and aren't directly his fault.
What I don't get is how he is CHL and OHL commissioner. Isn't that a bit of a conflict of interest?
EDIT: You could also probably consider the mess in Sudbury.
Erie's crime is always skewed. It's all way lower east side with gangs and drugs. If you aren't involved in gangs and drugs you are pretty safe here.
I would also argue he doesn't implement a very consistent referee and suspension system at all.
I understand the tying to eliminate fighting as much as you can in today's game but players leaving the helmet on just leads to more hand injuries
Also there should be some type of rules in place with the way teams can manipulate the draft/ free agent pools like London and Kitchener do. I'm sure there are some rules you can put in place to make it more difficult to land all these guys so easily. It would make for more parity in the league
I understand the tying to eliminate fighting as much as you can in today's game but players leaving the helmet on just leads to more hand injuries
Also there should be some type of rules in place with the way teams can manipulate the draft/ free agent pools like London and Kitchener do. I'm sure there are some rules you can put in place to make it more difficult to land all these guys so easily. It would make for more parity in the league
Free agent pool????
Don't get me wrong extremely smart moves by the Hunters business wise to essentially be able to sell their product the Knights to any draft eligible player so easy now:
Large crowds/arena - check
NHL experienced coaching - check
Guaranteed NHL scouting - check
Guaranteed more NHL scouting than any other CHL team now - check
History of high NHL draft picks - check
History of many NHL draft picks - check
History of successful NHL draft picks - check
Location - check
The issue is ensuring the talented players play in the CHL. Eg. teams such as London, Kitchener and Windsor to a lesser extent have the ability to draft top talented players (should be top 10 picks) from the US and from the Import Draft often in later rounds or at the back end of a first round and know they have a fighting chance to get these kids to leave NCAA and Europe to play in the CHL. London only has done this in their relative recent history, since they got a new arena and a coach with a name. A lot easier to sell a kid and his family to come play in a 9000 seat rink, and sell them on guaranteed pro scouting backed up by an NHL caliber player/coach and the track record of draft picks. Add in they can sell the City of London in that example or Kitchener as bigger markets.
Try convincing a top flight US star that his options for hockey are potentially: Any division 1 NCAA college or the likes of Owen Sound, North Bay or Peterborough. Small towns, older buildings, lesser budgets etc. Now throw in the likes of state of the art facilities larger cities, etc and its easy to see why the "large" operating teams get these guys. Unfortunately if you want that international talent to actually come play in the CHL, it is what it is.
Sadly same can be said of the Canadian kids eg. recently Mete forcing Owen Sound to trade him as he did not want to play in a small market city more north, enter London and opportunity. Owen Sound lost the player but did get well compensated with picks. Same with the McLeod kid and Flint this year. These situations don't happen too often but again, if you want to keep these kids in the CHL and they don't want to play in certain places you do what you have to do.
None of the kids in the CHL are obligated to play in it. They have there rights drafted, but many of these kids are offered scholarships to NCAA schools, Junior A and B, if Europe thought they could poach more kids they would certainly attempt to do so, and if Matthews moves to the Swiss league pans out for him in the NHL draft you may see more kids go to Europe and play in the mens league making significant money and not risk draft position for the NHL.
At the end of the day, developing these kids into NHL/AHL talent nets teams additional $ from those pro league teams, the better you do it the better your chances of bringing in top talent and filtering those $ back into upgrading facilities and coaches. As much as recently this trend in the OHL has been for London and Kitchener, there is no reason why teams in Windsor, Ottawa, Oshawa, Mississauga, Niagara, Hamilton (now) with there arena size and larger cities can't follow similar paths. Then teams such as Barrie, Guelph, Kingston, SSM, Sarnia and Erie shouldn't drag too far behind. Its teams in Sudbury, Owen Sound, North Bay, Peterborough, Saginaw, Flint (now) that have the hardest time with consistent drawing of players in parts to location, facilities, etc but that not to say they don't know how to put out good teams or don't have history of performing well. Most teams I see win the CHL leagues don't win them solely off the backs of imports, they simply draft and develop well from 1st rounders to 15th. Some teams can just manage to mot scout as well and not feel the same affects.
Don't get me wrong does London have an extremely large advantage over the rest of the OHL for drawing in these players... Yes! But it wasn't always the case, they use to be the longest of times the laughing stock of the OHL and were absolutely terrible, in a horrible building. Investment, smart decisions, and capitalizing on their opportunities has made them the goliath they are now. Can only tip the hat to that at the end of the day. London, Kitchener both rivals, but they don't seem to be any easier to beat year in and year out then our small market rivals from Owen Sound (I am a Storm fan) so it still just comes down to good drafting, good development and having them become a good team. Toughest division to win year in and year out.
aemoreira1981
Registered User
On the issues in the OP, the only ones I can really put on David Branch are the Belleville situation and the situation with the Saginaw Spirit (if it were the NCAA, the win would have been forfeited), although now it is obvious that an anti-nepotism rule is needed. with the fiasco in Flint. The OP also mentions the Jeff Kugel situation (without mentioning), but before the suspension, he had only played 48 games in a season-plus, having been frequently a healthy scratch. After he was given a second chance, he only played 2 more OHL games before quitting the sport at a competitive level.
It’s sad state when people not only believe this, but try and convince others to as well.
If this is what mattered to players, the University of Michigan would have every single football player they wanted. The Green Bay Packers would get every free agent they wished for. The Montreal Canadiens would be the #1 choice for players. And the LA Dodgers would be drowning in players wanting to play for them. But no one this actually happens.
So tell me why “large arena†means anything.
What experience? Hunter was an emergency hire by a desperate GM and failed so miserably he was canned with less than a full year. He will go down with the likes of Dallas Eakins as one of the worst coaches the NHL has had this generation, and will never see any interest from any team ever again.
What about the other coaches in London? Hunter’s kid? Jeff Paul? London hasn’t had a single coach on their bench that has moved up to be a top level coach, anywhere. Nor have they ever been involved with the World Juniors. The Windsor Spitfires, Soo Greyhounds and Kitchener Rangers have had NHL coaches on their bench. The Knights haven’t
I have no idea what this means. Every CHL gets scouted. The top pick in last year’s draft played in Erie. The year before came from Barrie. 2 of the last 8 #1 picks came out of Sarnia. The best player to ever play the sport came from a small town a couple hours north of Toronto.
Again, no idea what this means.
Are you including the likes of Michael McCarron and John Carlson who were already NHL First Rounder’s before they stepped foot into the OHL?
End the ridiculousness of players claiming they are headed to the NCAA only to change their mind once the envelope of cash from Mark Hunter ends up on the coffee table and let’s see if this stays the same. If the Hunters’ were as good as you think, then there would be no problem welcoming the change.
BTW, if the Hunters are this good, where is their involvement with Team Canada? Why didn’t successful NHL teams come looking for them?
Repeating the same points does not mean you are adding any more
See above
Ugh? Location for what?
The Hunters’ buy players. You are a damn fool if you think otherwise.
The International Ice Hockey Federation does not recognize the NCAA, so players committing and quitting on their college teams doesn’t not make them ineligible to play elsewhere. This may change in the next few years. And when it does, Mitch Marner will not be using the Wolverines as an excuse to get 17 OHL teams to pass on him in the Midget Draft. But don’t worry my friend, with no way of getting Top 3 picks with the #18 selection, it won’t be long before the Knights are legitimately picking Top 3 prospects….with the #2 selection
One more to add-- because of the Belleville situation, Peterborough, Owen Sound, and Sudbury are in danger of relocation to larger centres just so David Branch can make more money..
And of course, when Hamilton got a team, they were giving promises of a chance at a Memorial Cup.. they don't deserve it! You're going to risk another Hamilton Dukes situation there.
And of course, when Hamilton got a team, they were giving promises of a chance at a Memorial Cup.. they don't deserve it! You're going to risk another Hamilton Dukes situation there.
Hammer9001
Registered User
There are conflicting opinions on the subject, and I suppose as a Hamilton season ticket holder I'm slightly biased but I will try to explain.
The former owner of Belleville (Gord Simmonds) said to the city, upon purchase of the team in 2004 that he needed the arena upgraded. Apparently in 2008 this was supposed to happen but fell through.
During his tenure, apart from a decent stint in 2006-2009 he was apparently plagued for calls to remove head coach George Burnett (apparently a friend of his) which never occurred. This was compounded by the fact that Simmonds had a son who was playing for the team as well.
Anyways, long story short Hamilton lost it's AHL team, and Michael Andlauer, former owner of the AHL Bulldogs (and a part owner of the Habs) bought the team and relocated it to Hamilton with the blessing of the OHL BoG. Apparently there had been talks for a few months about this.
At the same time, Simmonds' son had grown up and no longer qualified to stay in the O. Apparently the mayor of Belleville was looking for a new owner to buy the team from Simmonds who was disinclined to do so. Depending on who you talk to, attendance at their facility was either constantly packed, or had suffered near the end.
So that's pretty much it, really you can make a case for either side, and I'm inclined slightly more towards Belleville's side having experienced Burnett's coaching first hand. Bottom line, if what is going on in Flint is any indication, the OHL really needs to say "A player immediately related to an owner, coach or manager cannot be allowed to play for that team."
Hammer9001
Registered User
There is no evidence of any promise for a Memorial Cup that I've seen. Heck some are even saying Andlauer is going to wash his hands after this first season because of low attendance because his lease is up.
I get we are the new kid on the block, and we've had more chances then we deserve to make OHL hockey work in Hamilton, but I'm tired of so many cheering for Hamilton to fail yet again, and/or ripping into the Bulldogs, far more viciously then any other team in the OHL.
Regarding the Memorial Cup situation:
http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/5517845-hamilton-could-be-in-the-mix-to-host-2017-memorial-cup/
Problem is, they don't deserve it.. look, I'd like to see the team succeed.. but these problems are just a continuation of what happened in Belleville under Simmonds, who is still part of the ownership group, along with Burnett.. if it was just Andlauer there, he would've hired a new coach, but Simmonds won't allow it, as Burnett and Simmonds seem to be friends.
Outside of a brief run in 2013 to the conference final (thank Malcolm Subban for that), this team has had trouble with development since the huge playoff runs of 2005-2009, of which in 2008, the Bulls got to the Memorial Cup (and lost to Kitchener, who lost to Spokane, who broke the trophy.)
You sir are very naive on decision making of top flight talent and cherry picked your responses without the context of this is all about drawing the international players. Arena, is top in terms of size (fans, closest to the NHL you will get, amenities etc). This is not the pros or about contract money so your point went way off track, and yes when you refer to football UoM or Ohio State or Bama or LSU DO absolutely draw "higher" talent in part by the stadium/amenities it brings.
Hunter played in the NHL, coached in the NHL, had success doing both. So again refusing to acknowledge that does not make it not true. I did not say no other team hadn't a NHL player/coach, read the whole post and not just cherry pick, I used London as an example.
Every CHL team will be scouted yes, but no other CHL team has a owner who is the head of scouting for an NHL team. If you are not aware of who the owners are and what they do now, start reading about the London Knights and Toronto Maple Leafs. Easy to tell kids I can guarantee you will be heavily scouted as my brother is in charge of an NHL teams scouting.
What money? Again these kids are getting better facilities, coaching, opportunities etc deciding to head London way now. Again you checked off more points for me, all of them have and continue to put feelers out because Hunter is a coveted coach. Naive to think otherwise.
Not sure what is "repeated" it is vastly different to talk about a history of high draft picks in comparison to being drafted period. Both are different selling points to top end talent and to lesser but "better" talent that may get drafted.
I think you sunk your own point sir, thank you for clearly explaining that you are simply anti Hunter/London. I follow a rival of theres so there is no love loss, but to simply be a homer does not make your points valid at all. Try reading about how the OHL draft, and rules work before you comment next time. I have experience with it over the years, and there are very good explanations easily found on the internet. Educate yourself on the matter before making such silly comments.
Cheers.
Hammer9001
Registered User
Thank you for the article, that's the first time I've seen it.
However, there are some points that article does make that really say it's not going to happen.
Really, the Bulldogs need to turn it around in the next few years to be a consideration on that front. Right now, they are missing the playoffs.
So it's been a while since this article came out, haven't heard anything since then, but it's possible. I agree though, it's too soon for Hamilton to host. 2020 at the earliest in my eyes, and that's assuming the city gets behind the team. Rumor is Hamilton might be gunning for the Grey Cup in 2019 to match up with the 150th anniversary of the Ti-Cats.
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Snippit
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2012
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The guy who took a non-playoff team into the playoffs and knocked off the defending champs is certainly going to go down into the NHL as one of the worst coaches in the generation....
His rebuttal to the scouting point was to only look at first overall picks.
His post concludes with the same rhetoric - the Knights are cheaters/buy players. The OHL has only caught one team doing it, and anything else at this point is plain conspiracy.
And all of the Knights draft picks were Americans, right? How about the fact that the Knights drafted 130 pound Mitch Marner, 22nd in the O draft, and turned him into a 4th overall NHL pick?
Nikita Zadorov, #9 in the Import Draft, to #16 in the NHL draft.
Bo Horvat, #9 in the O draft, to #9 in the NHL draft.
List goes on...
You really think the number of ex-Knights in the NHL, drafted and developed, isn't relevant to players who want to come over?
Plain absurd post.
His rebuttal to the scouting point was to only look at first overall picks.
His post concludes with the same rhetoric - the Knights are cheaters/buy players. The OHL has only caught one team doing it, and anything else at this point is plain conspiracy.
And all of the Knights draft picks were Americans, right? How about the fact that the Knights drafted 130 pound Mitch Marner, 22nd in the O draft, and turned him into a 4th overall NHL pick?
Nikita Zadorov, #9 in the Import Draft, to #16 in the NHL draft.
Bo Horvat, #9 in the O draft, to #9 in the NHL draft.
List goes on...
You really think the number of ex-Knights in the NHL, drafted and developed, isn't relevant to players who want to come over?
Plain absurd post.
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Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
In answer to the OP: As long as the owners/BOG want him to stay on. The CHL is still the best development league for NHL prospects and will continue to be. The Flint situation won't change that just like the Riolo situation in Windsor didn't affect it.
The Flint situation was the OHL.. besides, we haven't heard these issues in the QMJHL and WHL. It's obvious Branch is destroying the league.. not the CHL in general, just the OHL.
The large arena means nothing, but it is representative of the quality of the facilities which are huge in recruiting regardless of sport. And a few things you wrote are factually incorrect, Hunter wasn't fired from washington (the exact circumstances haven't been fully revealed). And Wayne Gretzky is not from north of Toronto, he's from a place west of it, unless your saying Orr is the best player of all-time.
The International Ice Hockey Federation does not recognize the NCAA, so players committing and quitting on their college teams doesn’t not make them ineligible to play elsewhere. This may change in the next few years. And when it does, Mitch Marner will not be using the Wolverines as an excuse to get 17 OHL teams to pass on him in the Midget Draft. But don’t worry my friend, with no way of getting Top 3 picks with the #18 selection, it won’t be long before the Knights are legitimately picking Top 3 prospects….with the #2 selection
You sir have NO CLUE as to what went on with Marner. NONE. He was 5'7 125lbs in Minor Midget. NO TEAMS CAME CALLING even though most now say we had Marner in the top 5. The Petes actually showed up and committed to take him in the second or third round. ALL teams other than OS who were picking 17th were talking second or third round. Even London tried in the second round. Don't talk #$##@ you have no clue about. All the scouting agencies had Marner second or third round with one or two saying late first. They don't care about school or OHL just where he was ranked. Most did not do due diligence on Marners size. They should be questioned not the knights who head scout knew the family and player well.
You sir have NO CLUE as to what went on with Marner. NONE. He was 5'7 125lbs in Minor Midget. NO TEAMS CAME CALLING even though most now say we had Marner in the top 5. The Petes actually showed up and committed to take him in the second or third round. ALL teams other than OS who were picking 17th were talking second or third round. Even London tried in the second round. Don't talk #$##@ you have no clue about. All the scouting agencies had Marner second or third round with one or two saying late first. They don't care about school or OHL just where he was ranked. Most did not do due diligence on Marners size. They should be questioned not the knights who head scout knew the family and player well.
aresknights
Registered User
If the owners are good with Branch he stays, if not he goes, simple.
For all negatives we read about him, the league (read owners) must be happy. Lots more exposure n cash than 10-15-20 years ago.
I do agree thou, it's odd he's CHL commish and heads the O. But again must not be an issue with those who employ him.
Why does every league thread turn into a bash Knights fest
They must being doing something right
For all negatives we read about him, the league (read owners) must be happy. Lots more exposure n cash than 10-15-20 years ago.
I do agree thou, it's odd he's CHL commish and heads the O. But again must not be an issue with those who employ him.
Why does every league thread turn into a bash Knights fest
They must being doing something right
aresknights
Registered User
What do you mean by referee system?
Suspensions arent that tough to figure out most times. Tough, sure but most times easy to guess close to total .I will admit the odd one is an outlier.
Fighting with helmets on leads to more hand injuries? You had to be joking. Fingers compared to brain injuries? If you had a teen playing would you rather his head protected or hand protected. Just wow. And you can injure a hand pretty easily punching a skull ( coming from a trainer)
Manipulate FA pool like DeBrincat? lol. London went after him, Erie sold him on their team. Good on them. Raise your game n sell kids on your program, don't whine about those who do it well.
Was DeBrincat ever actually pursued by London? Has that ever been confirmed at all? He came out of literally nowhere, I remember Sportsnet saying that once but I'm not sure I buy it.
Anyways, I'm not a fan of the way OHL suspends players. They put far too much emphasis on the outcome of the play and not the intent. Like Ho-Sang getting 20 games in the 2014 playoffs for a light push because the player he pushed broke his leg.
The OHL has always had shoddy officiating, but even the NHL has some questionable calls so what can you expect from a junior league.
One change I'd like to see is in the playoffs, have the same crew ref the entire series, like baseball does. Would help with the consistency.
Anyways, I'm not a fan of the way OHL suspends players. They put far too much emphasis on the outcome of the play and not the intent. Like Ho-Sang getting 20 games in the 2014 playoffs for a light push because the player he pushed broke his leg.
The OHL has always had shoddy officiating, but even the NHL has some questionable calls so what can you expect from a junior league.
One change I'd like to see is in the playoffs, have the same crew ref the entire series, like baseball does. Would help with the consistency.
Laughing at how dumb you sound about Debrincat. He was passed over by every team for 15 rounds. Nobody wanted him. Erie was scouting another signed prospect and saw him and snagged him. Nothing wrong with that. But he was undrafted because he was supposedly bad not because he said I'm going to college or told teams he would only report to Erie. I don't believe London went after him. I believe Erie found him first and offered him. Maybe then London was interested
I'm talking about guys claiming they are going the college route and teams dramatically snag them late and they report 2 years later. Almost like a free agent
aresknights
Registered User
London was interested AFTER he was signed? And you call my comment dumb lol.
Laugh n call me dumb all you want. Real mature. But you are incorrect.100% incorrect. Thou I won't wait for an apology.
He was on Londons radar and at least one other team. Erie won the recruiting battle. Simple. Good on them, that was my original point.
The list of players that have been passed over in 15 rds but made an impact in the O isn't insignificant. London alone- Prust, Anderson, McNeil- all NHL draft picks. So don't wrongly assume those type kids don't garner attention. Stolarz, Mermis, Sherwood signed as older kids as FAs, Londons always looking, as should others be.
I see you didnt acknowledge anything else in my post. Why not?
Branch is responsible for an increase in hand injuries? lol. Referee system? Suspension system?
N all you got is an incorrect "we found him by accident" and laughing at how dumb I am comment. DeBrincat was recruited by other teams, ask around. He picked Erie.
Just as foolish as you saying Marner faked injury last year in POs, that trainers didn't care about players welfare, that Domi faked injury n sat out a game ect...
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