How much do athletes deserve to make?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by ebox99, Jul 4, 2011.

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  1. ebox99

    ebox99 Registered User

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    With NFL and NBA in lockout mode, is there a 'fair' way to determine what athletes in sports should make?

    Numerous huge contracts are giving out yearly but only a few athletes live up to the contract with their production on the field/court/ice.

    Should owners not be entitled to make money on their franchise? Not an issue with NFL.

    Should there be an incentive based salary with bonus for marketing/promoting/selling the game?

    Why don't owners put in performance targets in the contracts?
     
  2. berklon

    berklon Registered User

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    As much as the teams/owners are willing to pay them. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
  3. obsenssive*

    obsenssive* Guest

    they deserve much less than they get now. It's a complete joke, but a reality of capitalism...
     
  4. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    They do. Winning the Vezina, Hart or whatever, All Star selections, 1st or 2nd Team, GAA's, Save %'s goals, assists, number of hits delivered, you name it, bonus.

    We have a poster on these threads (hello ABD) who has advocated a "Commission" structure of sorts, whereby individual & team success is rewarded with possibly the same base salary for every single player of the league min, topping out at a more comfortable (for the owners) 45-47% of HRR's.

    As for the extraneous stuff, "marketing & promoting the game", thats' left up to the individual teams in each market (at the amateur levels) so without a grand plan we have an ad-hoc and uneven playing field, as some (Dallas, San Jose' etc) do a great job, others nothing whatsoever, and I doubt very much if many would be wanting to pay their players for that, particularly in the better established markets; and forget it in some of the struggling areas where dollars are tight.
     
  5. Tinalera

    Tinalera Registered User

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    As neat conceptually it would be to have these guys making what they made in the earlier years (where alot of players had to have offseason jobs), it's hard to say how much they "deserve" to make-it would be interesting to see NOW if Gary Bettman and the owners decided to start paying even CFL wages (very few players in the CFL make millions, more low 6 digit figures), it would be interesting to see what, if any effect that would have on players coming up (at the very least, it would probably cut down on the players "in it for the money" and really bring up those who have a passion for the game).
     
  6. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    I agree. 57% of HRR is about 10%+ more than is reasonable IMO. Im a total capitalist, and if my labor costs are that high which when combined with all of the other costs Im losing it by the boat load, Im not going to stick around, wouldnt even bother with the NHL, as they have the right to dictate structure & model. If I dont like it, tough. These long-term front-end loaded contracts paying for potential are just insane & completely crippling when in almost every single case they dont work out.
     
  7. straka91*

    straka91* Guest

    Less than a teacher/firefighter/policeman/doctor. They are entertainment but really dont contribute anything to socitey aside from charity work.
     
  8. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    How much do team owners deserve to make?

    How much do coaches deserve to make?

    How much does CBC deserve to make?


    Is there really a difference?
     
  9. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    yes, there is....

    Owners are entitled to make, not lose money. How much depends on how smart.
    Coaches should make as much as the median average NHL players salary plus bonuses.
    The CBC should not be broadcasting NHL hockey using public money in order to maintain its relevancy.
     
  10. Dado

    Dado Guest

    IMO that approaches the issue backwards.

    It should be: "How much should spectators be willing to pay?"
     
  11. NewClearWinter

    NewClearWinter Registered User

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    The economic arena of sports is quite fascinating to me, as it's unique from all other types of business models. This makes it extremely hard to judge whether the salary of an athlete is fair or not. But really, how many NHL caliber talents are there in the world? The answer is not many, which is why in the NHL and other premiere leagues, the athletes get paid top dollar. High demand from the fans+low supply of talent=high wages.
     
  12. SabresSharks

    SabresSharks Registered User

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    Really?

    If there were internet forums with names like teaching's/firefighting's/policing's/doctor's Future you'd have a point.

    Some of you guys crack me up.
     
  13. SabresSharks

    SabresSharks Registered User

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    Oh, but of course. In the socialist workers' paradise everything would be so neat and tidy and ... equitable.

    Except everywhere it's ever been tried.

    Or maybe you see yourself in the Zil limousine, being squired to your summer dacha while the proletarian riff-raff, hockey players for example, toil for your amusement.

    You people never learn, do you?
     
  14. straka91*

    straka91* Guest

    There are a lot of things backwards in todays society, internet forum categories are 1 if them.:sarcasm: Athletes will make millions no matter what. I dont agree with it but whatever, Ill still watch sports and partake in internet sport forums.

    http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=5 (student medical, I give you that ;))
    http://forums.officer.com/forums/

    But they dont have a "futures" category. Some people and thier lack of research make me want to shoot someone.
     
    Last edited by moderator : Jul 4, 2011
  15. NewClearWinter

    NewClearWinter Registered User

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    There are a lot of things backwards in this society which take a higher priority than the wages of teachers, firefighters, etc. These jobs come with the idea of selfless service, not entitlement to a big pay day. It's why I admire people in these professions so much. If they wanted to be rich, they could've chosen a different career path.
     
  16. mike14

    mike14 Reach

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    I'd be interested to know how internet forums mean society is 'backwards'.

    Also, some athletes will be millionaires no matter what, but not all. In almost every case, those that get paid the massive $$ are those who participate in sports which make heaps of $$. As it's the players who people pay to see play, this seems to make sense.

    How much should athlete's be paid? IMO it should be linked to how much the sport is in bringing in.
     
  17. obsenssive*

    obsenssive* Guest

    Did I advocate for socialism or authoritarianism any where? My stance is that capitalism is often bad for society, but it's the best option we've got.
     
  18. straka91*

    straka91* Guest

    It was sarcasm, forgot the smilie. I found it funny how internet forum categories/names are needed to make a point, thats all.
     
  19. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    If you're a die hard capitalist, you know that nobody ever anywhere is entitled to make money. If you buy a McDonald's franchise it's up to McDonald's to supply you with certain things but it's ultimately up to you to make sure that the location you run is profitable and successful. Same goes for a NHL franchise. You can't buy a McDonald's or a NHL franchise and expect a profit.
     
  20. SabresSharks

    SabresSharks Registered User

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    My apologies for misinterpreting.

    I feel the same way about capitalism that Churchill felt about democracy ... "the worst form of government ever invented, except for all the others". Sounds like you're of the same mind.
     
  21. mike14

    mike14 Reach

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    Ah, ok.

    That one did have me scratching my head...:laugh:
     
  22. SabresSharks

    SabresSharks Registered User

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    You need to educate yourself on the ridiculous pension benefits we're obliged to pay all those "selfless" public servants whose sacrifices you admire so much.

    The bolded part is particularly amusing. As if one's career choice is between "selfless" public service or being "rich". Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!
     
  23. NewClearWinter

    NewClearWinter Registered User

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    You're a conservative attacking another conservative. Settle down.

    I do know very well the ridiculousness of certain pensions/benefits. The entitlement mentality is at an all time high and I hate it just as much as the next guy. But there are people who choose career paths that aren't as lucrative in order to make a difference and help people. My description of selfless service is in an ideal world. The people that adhere to this, I greatly admire.
     
  24. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    I have to admit, if my high school teachers had some alternative secret option of becoming rich they had a good way of hiding that potential.
     
  25. ponder

    ponder Registered User

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    Owners willingly sign the contracts, therefore athletes deserve to make exactly what they earn. A market price/wage is automatically deserved, because by definition it's something that both sides agree on. Any other definition of a "fair/deserved" price/wage is arbitrary and illogical, in my opinion.

    This is a capitalist view, obviously, but really the only two options for setting a price/wage is:
    a) The free market
    b) The government (elected, dictator, whatever) setting the price/wage, arbitrarily
    c) Some combination of the two, like the government altering prices so they're higher (say, through excise taxes) or lower (say, through subsidies)

    And to me, the free market is far more "fair" than anything where the government is involved, as a free market price/wage is by definition the two sides agreeing on a price/wage that makes them both happy, not some ruler with the threat of force telling you how something will be. Plus, free markets (or at least relatively free markets) have consistently been shown to be far more stable than highly controlled markets/economies.

    Btw, I consider the NHL negotiating with the players association on salary caps to be part of the free market. Sure teams compete against each other on the ice, but the NHL as a whole is an organization with the goal of making money, all teams combined will try to make as much money for the league as a whole as possible, they're not trying to put each other out of business like truly separate, competing companies do, they're openly working towards a common goal. Teams within the NHL coming together to set limits on wages is not much different than, say, a large holding company like Berkshire Hathaway having policies related to wages of the employees of the various companies they control. If the employees don't like it, they can negotiate for better terms (such as CBA negotiations in the NHL), or simply quit and work elsewhere, this is true in the NHL just as it is true with any other business.
     

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