How many relocations will there be in the big 4 sports leagues this decade?
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Very true.
I feel sorry for the San Diego market. They are good fans with really bad ownership
San Diego people have generally rooted for LA teams in sports where San Diego had no team of its own.
Before the AFL launched, San Diego was no doubt Rams territory. The Chargers had began in LA, but moved south to SD a year later. As the AFL and NFL were warring at the time, I bet there were still many in LA who rooted for the Chargers, especially since LA would lose the Rams and Raiders in 1995 and also that there were still many AFL loyalists in LA during the 1960s.
Two attempts at the NBA having their own team in San Diego failed because the Lakers were far more popular in the area, having arrived in LA 7 years before the Rockets started, though to be fair, Rockets is more appropriate for Houston than it ever was for San Diego. The Clippers could not compete with the Lakers as a San Diego team, so they sought to eat in to the Lakers' own fanbase in greater LA, though they still had much trouble doing so until the 2010s, when the Lakers began a downturn after winning the 2010 NBA Finals, while the Clippers became frequent playoff participants.
Before the AFL launched, San Diego was no doubt Rams territory. The Chargers had began in LA, but moved south to SD a year later. As the AFL and NFL were warring at the time, I bet there were still many in LA who rooted for the Chargers, especially since LA would lose the Rams and Raiders in 1995 and also that there were still many AFL loyalists in LA during the 1960s.
Two attempts at the NBA having their own team in San Diego failed because the Lakers were far more popular in the area, having arrived in LA 7 years before the Rockets started, though to be fair, Rockets is more appropriate for Houston than it ever was for San Diego. The Clippers could not compete with the Lakers as a San Diego team, so they sought to eat in to the Lakers' own fanbase in greater LA, though they still had much trouble doing so until the 2010s, when the Lakers began a downturn after winning the 2010 NBA Finals, while the Clippers became frequent playoff participants.
KevFu
Registered User
What is happening in these two cities is actually quite telling about the likelihood (or lack of likelihood) that either team relocates out of market (Tampa is most definitely "moving" to a different part of the TB area at least).
Oakland can leave at any time. Their lease runs through 2024, but the only clause that prevents them from leaving is "they'd have to pay rent thru 2024." And that rent is $1.2 million per year, which is peanuts to an MLB team.
Their situation is very much like the NY Islanders at the end of their Coliseum lease: They can leave, but the TV market is too lucrative to go somewhere much smaller. The Bay Area TV market is about the 4th biggest by population, with 16 million in Northern California, plus half of Nevada including Reno. It's too lucrative to leave that for one of the three markets looking to get a team.
Tampa on the other hand, is locked in until 2028, so the politicians have a very easy time ignoring them, since term limits prevent them from facing the music on the "Don't spend our taxpayer money VS Don't let our team leave" debate yet.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 22,230
- 14,153
Ever, maybe? In the next 20 years? Nope. We don’t even have a triple A team anymore.
KevFu
Registered User
EVER, yes. Short term? No.
If you look at MLB expansion candidates, we can pick cities and go "Oh yeah, they'd be a good MLB city for X, Y, Z" (Like we would in the NHL with say, San Diego or San Antonio).
But if you look at Nashville, Portland and Montreal.... they have like, OWNERS with advisors, websites and merch, stadium plans and blueprints; investors and financing.
Vancouver is probably out for MLB, because under my four-league plan and schedule format, teams in the PCL have no protected rivalries in interleague play - adding Vancouver will cause them to want to play Montreal, Toronto, and possibly Ottawa every year, and vice versa.
Thus, the 11th and 12th PCL teams, which would be added decades after MLB expands to 40, would likely go to Salt Lake City and Sacramento, both of which currently only have the NBA.
Thus, the 11th and 12th PCL teams, which would be added decades after MLB expands to 40, would likely go to Salt Lake City and Sacramento, both of which currently only have the NBA.
After the four-league plan would get implemented, MLB would commit to eventually adding a Continental League team in Buffalo, which is the last remaining city in the proposed CL of the mid-20th century that is not in MLB.
Likewise, MLB would commit to eventually adding Pacific Coast League teams in Portland and Sacramento, the last cities from the minor PCL's heyday not to have an MLB team, though probably not at the same time, because as it is the PCL would start with five teams in California, and only three outside that state. Thus, the first PCL expansion teams would likely go to Las Vegas and Portland, so that half the PCL is located in CA, and half of it in other states.
Likewise, MLB would commit to eventually adding Pacific Coast League teams in Portland and Sacramento, the last cities from the minor PCL's heyday not to have an MLB team, though probably not at the same time, because as it is the PCL would start with five teams in California, and only three outside that state. Thus, the first PCL expansion teams would likely go to Las Vegas and Portland, so that half the PCL is located in CA, and half of it in other states.
Mightygoose
Registered User
At the end of the day there wasn't
Jaguars say Lot J ‘is dead’ after City Council rejects incentives deal | Jax Daily Record | Jacksonville Daily Record - Jacksonville, Florida
Defeated with a 12-7 in favour. Needed 13 yes votes for a super-majority. This came after it passed the committee 15-4 to bring it to last night, so the no result is surprising. It looked like a bad deal for the city anyways, it would have not extended the lease among other reasons.
Jags lease runs to 2030 so a move would not be imminent but I would like relations with city council are a little more frosty now. This may have now put the Jaguars on 'the list'
MMC
Global Moderator
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Because
a) that franchise has been spinning its wheels in every possible way since Day One
and
b) there's nothing inherent about the Jacksonville market which would make it a hill to die on
With the stadium coming up on 30 years, I think it's only a matter of time before something finally tips the balance. It's really obvious that the franchise would be more successful if it relocated to... almost anywhere, and not in a Coyotes "yeah but 5M people live here and we need the TV presence and conference balance, so let's wait it out another decade" kind of way.
Isn't Shahid Khan (the owner of the Jaguars) also heavily invested in the London series, to the point that they are playing like 2 games a year there for the next while?
Svechhammer
THIS is hockey?
- Jun 8, 2017
- 24,106
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Jacksonville in the NFL.
Tampa Bay in MLB
Both teams are already one foot out the door. Jacksonville plays annual home games in London every year. Seems pretty clear they are being groomed to move to Europe. People forget, but Tampa had an agreement to play half their home games in Montreal this past season before COVID hit and forced that to change. And if I'm not mistaken, it was the second half of the schedule that would have shifted to Montreal. Could you have imagined last year playing out with that team reaching the World Series when they are playing half their games in Montreal? Wonder how the fans in Tampa would have reacted to that?
Tampa Bay in MLB
Both teams are already one foot out the door. Jacksonville plays annual home games in London every year. Seems pretty clear they are being groomed to move to Europe. People forget, but Tampa had an agreement to play half their home games in Montreal this past season before COVID hit and forced that to change. And if I'm not mistaken, it was the second half of the schedule that would have shifted to Montreal. Could you have imagined last year playing out with that team reaching the World Series when they are playing half their games in Montreal? Wonder how the fans in Tampa would have reacted to that?
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Yep, and I don't know of any particularly deep ties he has to Jacksonville. AFAIK he's only involved with that city because that was where an available NFL franchise existed.
CanadianCoyote
Registered User
I think the main problem with an NFL team in London is scheduling; games would be on at really late times for fans of the Jaguars if they move to London. People already have hard enough of a time watching games if they happen to be a fan of a team from the other side of the US, I can't imagine a team from another continent going well at all, especially with scheduling around the divisions.
You'd be better off with reviving NFL Europa and having a bunch of Euro teams in a separate league with their own season over trying to shoehorn London into the existing NFL schedule and layout. If the Jags were to move anywhere, I'd expect somewhere like St. Louis.
You'd be better off with reviving NFL Europa and having a bunch of Euro teams in a separate league with their own season over trying to shoehorn London into the existing NFL schedule and layout. If the Jags were to move anywhere, I'd expect somewhere like St. Louis.
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
His closest tie to that market is that he owns a home in Naples, about a 5 hour drive south of Jax. I think originally he wanted to buy the Rams but when that didn't happen Wayne Weaver put up a for sale sign.
I don't know, I think Trevor Lawrence might save them if he's the real deal and I think he is. But they definitely can't be spinning their wheels in mediocrity w/ him and/or have another post 2017 like scenario where they make the playoffs and go to the AFCCG only to go 5-11 the next year and the key guys leave, that won't end well a 2nd time.
I understand why small market teams are typically at risk, but I love having a bunch of different cities represented across the major sports. It saddens me to see the Hurricanes and Jaguars brought up as relocation candidates.
It's awesome to see cities like Buffalo, Columbus, and Raleigh in the NHL, along with Memphis, OKC, New Orleans, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, and San Antonio in the NBA and Buffalo, Jacksonville, and New Orleans in the NFL host teams.
I know these cities are longshots, but I'd be thrilled to see more of these smaller markets like Austin, Birmingham, Louisville, Providence, Richmond, and Virginia Beach represented. And of course, Hartford
It's awesome to see cities like Buffalo, Columbus, and Raleigh in the NHL, along with Memphis, OKC, New Orleans, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, and San Antonio in the NBA and Buffalo, Jacksonville, and New Orleans in the NFL host teams.
I know these cities are longshots, but I'd be thrilled to see more of these smaller markets like Austin, Birmingham, Louisville, Providence, Richmond, and Virginia Beach represented. And of course, Hartford
That is correct, he does not. Khan is from the St Louis area. When Georgia Frontier died and the Rams went up for sale Khan wanted to buy the Rams. But, Kroenke was a minority owner of the Rams and had an agreement in place that if the team was ever up for sale he would have the right to match any offer.
So Khan made an offer for the Rams, Kroenke matched and bought the Rams, the NFL then offered Khan the Jags as a consolation prize.
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
I agree and as for the bolded, my least favorite type of know-nothing in that class are the idiots who say "They should move to Charlotte", been seeing more of that in the last few years.
I believe the Austin MLS team begins play this Spring, so they've entered the fray. I've often thought they'd be a good market for the NHL if they got the chance and had a good owner/ownership group.
I dont foresee the NFL coming to STL anytime soon, if ever. The only way that would happen is if the NFL basically pays for the entire stadium and any additional infrastructure needs caused by the stadium.
After the Rams left, STL filed a multi billions dollar lawsuit against the NFL, every team, every owner, and several league officials. The suit is still working its way through the courts, but just about every preliminary hearing has been ruled in favor of the city. I am not paying attention to but come across an article on occasion. The last I heard a judge ruled that Jerry Jones (Cowboy's owner) had to sit for a deposition. The city is very anti NFL at the moment and the NFL is very anti STL.
The only way I see a team in STL is if the lawsuit gets settled with STL getting a "new" team as part of the agreement. STL has been screwed over twice now with the NFL (Arizona Cardinals used to be in STL) and i do not see them giving in to the NFL.
Also STL's XFL team was very successful in terms of fan support and attendance playing in the stadium that was not good enough for an NFL team.
vegarover
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2015
- 296
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The actual game times wouldn't be that much of a problem really for TV viewership. The London NFL team could play all their home games in the evening local time, which would translate to the afternoon in the U.S. That's what they do already when NFL teams play there.
When the London NFL team travels to the U.S. that's where it would get a bit tricky, but still doable. You'd just have to schedule all their games in the U.S. as early afternoon starts and no night games. The NFL generally schedules the Sunday games in 1 PM ET and 4:15 PM ET blocks. Those 1 PM ET games would start at 6 or 7 PM in London and the 4:15 PM ET starts would be 9 or 10 PM in London. Yes, 9-10 PM would be pretty late, but you could also move up any games played in the Mountain and Pacific time zones an hour to help. But in theory, because of how the current NFL schedule is set up, this should only be the case for 2-3 games a season.
The only major time problem would be if the London team ever made it to the Super Bowl. Then their home fans would be forced to watch it late night into the early morning.
But anyway, I think the biggest concern would be jet lag. You might have to break the London team's schedule into big chunks of home and away games. Maybe London starts the 1st 4 games on the road, then plays the next 8 at home so the visiting teams can use their bye weeks to recover after their trips to London, then have the final 4 games played on the road again? Playoffs could be rough as well.
the problem with Cedar Park and Austin, is how much or does Dallas control that territory without paying them a fee,(see Arizona) or is it a general consensus that you don't enter another league's territory.
yes, Austin FC is here, just like Nashville SC and Inter Miami were added in recent years.
all I can relate to is the war on two leagues governed by the same union squabbling over a market like Cincinnati when the Cyclones were the established franchise, and then after Anaheim's affiliate being outclassed because it wasn't a Washington affiliate in Baltimore, they tried competing head 2 head in Cincinnati, which isn't great, but not a long-term solution
I like this post, in a way. Smaller cities in the various leagues have a nice 'feel' to them. To address your concerns directly, Carolina Hurricanes are in no danger of relocating any time soon, having recently signed a new usage agreement for their arena.
As for the others....Austin has a chance, although a small one right now, and it probably depends on further growth.
The other you mentioned are going to be difficult because of the cost involved in a team, and the need for corporate support in communities to sustain them.
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