waingr0
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- May 14, 2010
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Speculation: How Important is Having a GM for the Draft?
- Thread starter Drew75
- Start date
Anth93
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2012
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Um not important at all?
The only trade that's going to happen will be a 4th and a 5th for a 3rd or something ridiculous that ends up being completely inconsequential and really just an example of GM's having fun with one of the few times they get to express their influence.
The only trade that's going to happen will be a 4th and a 5th for a 3rd or something ridiculous that ends up being completely inconsequential and really just an example of GM's having fun with one of the few times they get to express their influence.
Babcocks Marner
It's a magical time
Not necessarily - remember, he is the only one they can talk to right now, because most of the potential candidates are busy with that whole playoffs thing (Fenton, Verbeek, BriseBrois)
No team would ask permission to talk to a guy who is active in the playoffs, they will wait until their team gets eliminated (which is hopefully very soon for Fenton!)
I thought it was Burke well before they got permission to start talking to him. I'll think it is Burke until someone signs with Toronto. The little ball of hate would be my #2 guess, but I'll roll with Burke.
Auston Matthews
Maple Leafs.
TribalPhoenix
Former TribalPhoenix
That's where Shanahan comes in.
If you're saying a GM coming in can't make trades, then that makes Shanahan the GM basically immediately.
It's not like you need to know how these guys take their coffee. You know the team is rebuilding, and these are the assets you have to convert to futures. Not a whole ton of strategy about it.
Maybe if we don't have a gm we won't trade 2 seconds for Bolland or sign Clarkson to a 7 year deal...crap, that already happened didn't it.
The only thing that helps the Leafs if a GM comes in before the draft is that he will have contacts around the league in order to talk trades.
Whether that is starting and finalizing a Kessel/Phaneuf trade or trading the #4 to drop to #6 and get a 2nd, I don't know. But in terms of getting a GM before the draft and expect this management group to allow him to have a say in the draft selection process is a little far-fetched.
Every potential GM I want the Leafs to sign are assistant GM's that have never been a GM and therefore may not have too many legitimate contacts in order to have a good enough relationship to expedite any trade talks.
However, with all of that said I voted No that it is not important. With the new rule about poaching currently employed executives, I don't think it makes sense that a team about to embark on a rebuild trades away a high pick simply to have a name on a door in the Leafs office.
Im starting to think that the new Leafs GM is going to simply be a figure head. Hunter is going to be leading the way in scouting and drafting, Pridham will have a lot of say in who the Leafs sign, and Dubas may become the one to work trades with his analytical approach. All of that with Shanahan having the final say on who the Leafs draft/sign/trade for and why they do so.
Essentially I feel that the Leafs are going to copy the Colorado Avalanche where Greg Sherman is still the GM but holds no power and Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy have the last say on any hockey related matters.
Whether that is starting and finalizing a Kessel/Phaneuf trade or trading the #4 to drop to #6 and get a 2nd, I don't know. But in terms of getting a GM before the draft and expect this management group to allow him to have a say in the draft selection process is a little far-fetched.
Every potential GM I want the Leafs to sign are assistant GM's that have never been a GM and therefore may not have too many legitimate contacts in order to have a good enough relationship to expedite any trade talks.
However, with all of that said I voted No that it is not important. With the new rule about poaching currently employed executives, I don't think it makes sense that a team about to embark on a rebuild trades away a high pick simply to have a name on a door in the Leafs office.
Im starting to think that the new Leafs GM is going to simply be a figure head. Hunter is going to be leading the way in scouting and drafting, Pridham will have a lot of say in who the Leafs sign, and Dubas may become the one to work trades with his analytical approach. All of that with Shanahan having the final say on who the Leafs draft/sign/trade for and why they do so.
Essentially I feel that the Leafs are going to copy the Colorado Avalanche where Greg Sherman is still the GM but holds no power and Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy have the last say on any hockey related matters.
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
- 70,252
- 9,264
Greg Sherman was fired (which, I have to say was the quietest firing ever).
but pretty much, yeah.
According to Anthony Petrielli of Maple Leafs Hotstove, if you watched Brendan Shanahan’s end of season press conference and began wondering who the next GM will be, you missed the forest for the trees.
It was pretty clear last season, and abundantly clear now, that Brendan Shanahan is the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Traditionally there is confusion when teams don’t have a GM in place because now the incumbent staff is reporting to a president or ownership group that is not a hockey expert. That is not the case here. Shanahan could go into the draft and free agency tomorrow and not miss a beat. He has not defined his plan or vision –and it appears he won’t at all—but it is in his vision and plan that this team will be built.
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/04/20/leafs-notebook-season-finale-april-20/
It was pretty clear last season, and abundantly clear now, that Brendan Shanahan is the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Traditionally there is confusion when teams don’t have a GM in place because now the incumbent staff is reporting to a president or ownership group that is not a hockey expert. That is not the case here. Shanahan could go into the draft and free agency tomorrow and not miss a beat. He has not defined his plan or vision –and it appears he won’t at all—but it is in his vision and plan that this team will be built.
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/04/20/leafs-notebook-season-finale-april-20/
“We want someone that shares our vision,” said Shanahan. “We need to have a team with greater character. We have to have people that represent this city and represent this team as it deserves. I think we have an incredibly loyal, resilient fanbase. We need to have an incredibly resilient group of players that love to play in Toronto… This job won’t be for some general managers, but those general managers won’t be for us. The one statement I don’t like to say too much is this is how it’s always been done. That doesn’t really make much sense to me. I believe we are building a very capable and dedicated staff of people. The type of general manager that I want to bring to Toronto is someone that recognizes that. And wants to be apart of that team.”
Those aren’t the words of someone hiring a GM to run the show.
The usual definition and duties of a GM is a team executive responsible for acquiring the rights to player personnel, negotiating their contracts, reassigning or dismissing players, and hiring and firing coaches.
In one season, Shanahan has negotiated contracts for players such as Casey Bailey, been a key staple in the Roman Polak trade negotiation, hired all of the Leafs assistant coaches and subsequently fired them after the season, and is looking to hire the new head coach. He openly admitted he’d have no problem hiring a head coach before GM, because the reality is he is the GM.
The prototypical management tree in the NHL with the GM in charge is how Brian Burke built his group.
Now it looks like this:
tokyoite
I changed my name from "nipponjin" last summer.
I think for US specifically its absolutely crucial. We need to make some big moves and rebuild the core of the team, and draft day is such an important part of that. But its about having the right GM. Don't throw someone in that role just for the sake of having a GM. Find someone who actually has a plan/vision and a decent track record. I think in terms of drafting, hunter/dubas/shanahan will be able to handle it pretty well not to sure about the trading aspect if we head in with just those 3. Not that i don't like them just not sure what to expect from them
Jerkini
Registered User
Honestly with Dubas/Hunter running the ship with Shanahan, i'm perfectly content not having a GM.
Kubus
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2014
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I don't think we need to rush out to get a GM. Any new GM that joins is just going to take his time to learn about the team, about what he has here. It's not like a GM will come here ready with a draft list, nor will he be ready to make any trades without knowing anything about the team/prospect pool here.
As it comes to the draft, I think that falls mostly on our scouts, Hunter, and Dubas, even if a GM is here. The one thing that a GM might help with is a trade, but again he would know very little about our players and the decision would still probably fall on Hunter/Dubas/Shanahan/scouts.
Even if we get a GM, I expect that for the first half year or so the team is mostly run by Dubas, Hunter, and Shannahan, while he learns about what we has here.
As it comes to the draft, I think that falls mostly on our scouts, Hunter, and Dubas, even if a GM is here. The one thing that a GM might help with is a trade, but again he would know very little about our players and the decision would still probably fall on Hunter/Dubas/Shanahan/scouts.
Even if we get a GM, I expect that for the first half year or so the team is mostly run by Dubas, Hunter, and Shannahan, while he learns about what we has here.
Well the only way a GM is going to be brought into this organization is if their beliefs are in line with the current management core. So i don't think draft day would be much different with a GM named.
Having a fresh face to the organization might help with valuing some of our bigger ticket players. Someone from the outside would hold a different value for Phaneuf, Kessel, Bozak, Lupul than what we value them at. May help prevent the Luongo situation in Vancouver and make it so that we can actually move the players or in some cases not move them.
Draft is all done with the guys here though and Shanahan has final say on anything that happens as he is actually the GM of the team.
Draft is all done with the guys here though and Shanahan has final say on anything that happens as he is actually the GM of the team.
Kubus
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2014
- 803
- 31
Dubas and Hunter were hired within the last year. Shanahan just past his 1 year mark as the President of the Leafs, he was hired last April. That is pretty new faces in the front office.
As for what we can get for the players, and their value, it won't be dictated by a new face, but what others are willing to pay. This means that return value will be dictated by how good we are at negotiating, and working to get the deal done.
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
- 70,252
- 9,264
you mean
they'll have a president, gm, agm, director of player development and a capologist like 29 other teams? Oh my goodness, what crap.
Drew75
Registered User
- Sep 5, 2005
- 2,518
- 0
I believe that this is the first offseason it is in effect.
For Coaches, it's from the time the team's season ends, for front office staff, it's pre / post draft (between 2nd or 3rd round pick).
Apparently it's a "Holland" rule - as he was pissed with everyone trying to steal all of his talent (Yzerman, Nill, etc)
BlueBaron
Registered User
Reddaye
Registered User
Such crap. What a JOKE.
To answer the original question: I think it's fine. Hunter will spearhead the draft. Shanahan and Dubas will likely talk trades. The wheel will turn, and we'll either make trades or we won't. You don't need a list of contacts to know if a deal suits you or not.
From what I have heard, Dubas barely handles any analytics at all. That's just what gets told to the public.
I'm waiting for this post to get shut down though.
I'm waiting for this post to get shut down though.
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