Speculation: How Important is Having a GM for the Draft?

[Drew75]

By all indications, the Leafs new management structure (which I for one love) will result in them bringing in a top, up-and-coming hockey mind to bring it all together.

They have Dubas running with Analytics, Hunter running with Drafting and Player Development, and Pirdham running with Cap Management. Shanny has the vision, and now they just need a guy with some experience to bring it all together.

While some are hoping for a big-name here (Chiarelli, Shero, etc) - the fact is that's just not going to happen. Agree or disagree, these guys are not going to want to join an existing team - and I for one am OK with that - I'm not sold on any of them being a great fit for what we want to do.

The "right guy" will be a promising exec with another team, along the lines of Burke, Verbeek, BriseBrois, Futa, Blake, etc. All in positions that have given them the right contacts and experience in the league.

Combine that with the fact that the Leafs current strategy HAS to be selling off as many core players for additional 2015 draft picks, there is a school of thought that the team would greatly benefit from having a GM in place heading into the draft to lead the negotiations on those trades - but at what cost?

If they bring in a guy before the draft, the team has to give up a 2nd round pick (at some point in the next 3 years), but if they wait until after the draft, it's only a 3rd rounder.

Do you feel that the added benefit of having an experienced guy just focused on the trades is worth the 2nd round pick? Or do you feel that we should let our inexperienced guys handle it, and bring the new guy in after the draft?

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[A1LeafNation]

Pretty sure we only need a GM for making trades(that are in line with the drafting/developing philosophy) and signing players to reasonable contracts.

Im sure Dubas/Hunter can handle trading Kessel for #6 overall type deals.

 

[Riellyfan04]

Im pretty sure the gm has nothing to say or do in the draft day. Maybe to talk trades but for the picks we already have its all Hunter!!

 

[Mickey Marner]

I have confidence in Hunter to run a successful draft.

 

[Bullseye]

Hunter, Dubas, Shanny - great team right there. Is adding a GM almost too many cooks in the kitchen?

In not getting CMD the emphasis has to be on trades - maybe even trading on draft day so a lot on the plate for these guys.

Do they focus on maximizing the draft day returns - trading up/trading down/trading assets for top picks - or do they focus on getting the right GM?

 

[deletethis]

OT: I'm still looking for one iota of evidence that analytics are even remotely relevant for amateur scouting.

 

[leafsfuture]

OT: I'm still looking for one iota of evidence that analytics are even remotely relevant for amateur scouting.

True.

By all accounts scouts had already submitted lists for players in the lower end of the draft. Dave Morrison is also still here and by all accounts he is given significant influence in making picks.

Our trinity of Dubas/Shanahan/Hunter will make the choice, but Morrison will stamp its approval

 

[colchar]

By all indications, the Leafs new management structure (which I for one love) will result in them bringing in a top, up-and-coming hockey mind to bring it all together.

They have Dubas running with Analytics, Hunter running with Drafting and Player Development, and Pirdham running with Cap Management. Shanny has the vision, and now they just need a guy with some experience to bring it all together.

While some are hoping for a big-name here (Chiarelli, Shero, etc) - the fact is that's just not going to happen. Agree or disagree, these guys are not going to want to join an existing team - and I for one am OK with that - I'm not sold on any of them being a great fit for what we want to do.

The "right guy" will be a promising exec with another team, along the lines of Burke, Verbeek, BriseBrois, Futa, Blake, etc. All in positions that have given them the right contacts and experience in the league.

Combine that with the fact that the Leafs current strategy HAS to be selling off as many core players for additional 2015 draft picks, there is a school of thought that the team would greatly benefit from having a GM in place heading into the draft to lead the negotiations on those trades - but at what cost?

If they bring in a guy before the draft, the team has to give up a 2nd round pick (at some point in the next 3 years), but if they wait until after the draft, it's only a 3rd rounder.

Do you feel that the added benefit of having an experienced guy just focused on the trades is worth the 2nd round pick? Or do you feel that we should let our inexperienced guys handle it, and bring the new guy in after the draft?

That compensation starts this summer but when this summer? Will it be before this year's draft or afterwards?

 

[Daisy Jane]

OT: I'm still looking for one iota of evidence that analytics are even remotely relevant for amateur scouting.

Look at Chicago's talent pool. they've stated they use analytics in their amateur scouting.

So does San Jose + Anaheim.

they're considered one of the most strongest prospect pools in the league, so that would be the evidence, no?

 

[deletethis]

Look at Chicago's talent pool. they've stated they use analytics in their amateur scouting.

So does San Jose + Anaheim.

they're considered one of the most strongest prospect pools in the league, so that would be the evidence, no?

No, that's not evidence.

 

[613Leafer]

OT: I'm still looking for one iota of evidence that analytics are even remotely relevant for amateur scouting.

To be fair, Dubas (and Hunter) has earned a reputation as being one of the most active Assistant GMs in the entire league in terms of scouting prospects, players, etc in person.

So he's not just sitting behind a computer looking at numbers. Just because he understands and uses analytics, doesnt mean he doesnt care about scouting.

Its not black/white where you EITHER just look at numbers or just watch the player. Our management group is using both to better inform the other. More information is a good thing.

 

[deletethis]

To be fair, Dubas (and Hunter) has earned a reputation as being one of the most active Assistant GMs in the entire league in terms of scouting prospects, players, etc in person.

So he's not just sitting behind a computer looking at numbers. Just because he understands and uses analytics, doesnt mean he doesnt care about scouting.

Its not black/white where you EITHER just look at numbers or just watch the player. Our management group is using both to better inform the other. More information is a good thing.

Interviews with Dubas allayed any reservations I had that he's overly obsessed with analytics. More information is good but sometimes the information is meaningless. You have to have a critical eye on the value of the information.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Interviews with Dubas allayed any reservations I had that he's overly obsessed with analytics. More information is good but sometimes the information is meaningless. You have to have a critical eye on the value of the information.

From everything I've heard, Dubas is a very smart guy. Very happy to have him on our team!

 

[burpsalot]

No need to have a GM in place for the draft. If they were to sign one a month before the draft how much input would they really have. It takes time to get up to speed. The present management team has been working on the draft for months.

I think Burke will be the new GM. I also think his contract ends on draft day. Sign him the day after & there is no compensation.

 

[Duffman955]

No need to have a GM in place for the draft. If they were to sign one a month before the draft how much input would they really have. It takes time to get up to speed. The present management team has been working on the draft for months.

I think Burke will be the new GM. I also think his contract ends on draft day. Sign him the day after & there is no compensation.

The draft is not just about picks. It often involves big time trades.

 

[burpsalot]

The draft is not just about picks. It often involves big time trades.

Still not needed, big time.

 

[soulie]

We may not require big time trades, but minor deals should still be sought out if they better the team. Things tend to happen when you get all GMs in one place - hopefully we have someone at the time.

 

[morph]

If it's absolutely necessary to name a GM, we should first consider Hunter.

He has experience as a:

player- Over 10 years in the NHL
coach - coached multiple AHL and OHL teams including the St. John's Maple leafs
GM - 12 years as the GM of the London Knights

Hunter is a much better option than hiring a paper pushing Nonis 2.0

 

[Drew75]

No need to have a GM in place for the draft. If they were to sign one a month before the draft how much input would they really have. It takes time to get up to speed. The present management team has been working on the draft for months.

I think Burke will be the new GM. I also think his contract ends on draft day. Sign him the day after & there is no compensation.

Not necessarily - remember, he is the only one they can talk to right now, because most of the potential candidates are busy with that whole playoffs thing (Fenton, Verbeek, BriseBrois)

No team would ask permission to talk to a guy who is active in the playoffs, they will wait until their team gets eliminated (which is hopefully very soon for Fenton! )

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

i believe even if a GM was in place, shanahan will let Mark Hunter have the final word when it comes to our draft picks. if you looked at the shanahan post-lottery interview, he says that he'll leave it up to mark hunter if it comes down to picking a C or D with our pick or even if we have an opportunity to trade down from #4.

we know from that interview mark hunter controls our draft picks. and our new GM will only end up being an advisor (i.e a part of our management group) and not a true GM who decides the team's direction. this was evident in the post-lottery interview and last monday's presser.

TL;DR: no we do not need a GM in place for the draft in june.

 

[Menzinger]

To be fair, Dubas (and Hunter) has earned a reputation as being one of the most active Assistant GMs in the entire league in terms of scouting prospects, players, etc in person.

So he's not just sitting behind a computer looking at numbers. Just because he understands and uses analytics, doesnt mean he doesnt care about scouting.

Its not black/white where you EITHER just look at numbers or just watch the player. Our management group is using both to better inform the other. More information is a good thing.

Exactly. Nobody has EVER said all you need is analytics -it's a strawman to suggest otherwise. Dubas and Hunter both value their use in amateur scouting - but that doesn't mean they don't care about the 'eye test' - Hunter is a "rink rat" afterall.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

I think you definitely need a GM in place.

If we are serious about moving pieces out, the draft is where those discussions are going to happen. While Shanahan has veto power, you want to make sure all voices are present.

If a GM isn't in place, a new voice halfway through negotiations with a team may put a monkey wrench in things.

If you're going into the draft with the mentality that you're fully starting the rebuild, you need all hands on deck. I think Sean Burke is going to be that guy.

 

[Bullseye]

Not necessarily - remember, he is the only one they can talk to right now, because most of the potential candidates are busy with that whole playoffs thing (Fenton, Verbeek, BriseBrois)

No team would ask permission to talk to a guy who is active in the playoffs, they will wait until their team gets eliminated (which is hopefully very soon for Fenton! )

Brisbois looks from the outside to be the best fit - also very young but experienced.

 

[Bobs your uncle]

They have a defacto GM in Shannahan now.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think you definitely need a GM in place.

If we are serious about moving pieces out, the draft is where those discussions are going to happen. While Shanahan has veto power, you want to make sure all voices are present.

If a GM isn't in place, a new voice halfway through negotiations with a team may put a monkey wrench in things.

If you're going into the draft with the mentality that you're fully starting the rebuild, you need all hands on deck. I think Sean Burke is going to be that guy.

Whats the point in having a GM trading players who he knows little inside information about? The new GM is new to the team and thats when screw ups happen.