Speculation: How has Ryan Graves looked?

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

He has looked like an below average NHL player.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Problem is they've tried other guys up there alongside Makar and they were far worse. Warts and all, Graves is, for now, the best LHD the Avs have beyond Girard. Cole is still struggling to get back into game shape after surgery and Z just...isn't good enough for that role. I'd argue at least from a skating perspective, Graves is far better than EJ as well.

Long term, the Avs obviously would like Timmins and Byram to slide into the top four and bump EJ and Graves/Cole to the bottom pairing. Short term...I don't know. Right now, Graves is the best option. If by chance Rosen is a viable option, great!

I would argue the reason why Graves/Makar has worked has a heck of a lot more to do with Makar figuring out what he’s capable of. Z worked with Barrie in the past, and I think he could work with Makar too, but neither were at their best individually to start the year.

I don’t think Graves is a better skater than EJ either. All those penalties from Graves of late have been because he’s caught chasing.

 

[Pokecheque]

I would argue the reason why Graves/Makar has worked has a heck of a lot more to do with Makar figuring out what he’s capable of. Z worked with Barrie in the past, and I think he could work with Makar too, but neither were at their best individually to start the year.

I don’t think Graves is a better skater than EJ either. All those penalties from Graves of late have been because he’s caught chasing.

Well, I don't think him chasing the play is a skating issue--it's a hockey sense issue. I used to think Nick Holden was a lousy skater because he was having to hustle back into his own zone so often, but he really wasn't. He had such awful gap control he'd either try to stand guys up at the blue line and get burned, or he'd give the guy way too much space and back into his own goalie. I think it's the same problem (to a lesser extent) with Graves. EJ isn't fast at all these days, but IMO he's smarter about not getting caught up ice.

 

[henchman21]

I would argue the reason why Graves/Makar has worked has a heck of a lot more to do with Makar figuring out what he’s capable of. Z worked with Barrie in the past, and I think he could work with Makar too, but neither were at their best individually to start the year.

I don’t think Graves is a better skater than EJ either. All those penalties from Graves of late have been because he’s caught chasing.

There is a big difference in the way that Barrie and Makar play the game. Barrie is better with the puck, uses that to his advantage, and skates and attacks creatively based on that. He simply needs a partner who will defer towards him, pushes him to play that way, or fully has his back when things go awry. When Z is on his game, he can be a safe partner to play with and he can defer well to a partner when he's not trying to do too much.... and he's great on the rush, which when things break down with Barrie, it is frequently a rush sort of situation. Makar plays a much more cerebral sort of game where he needs a predictable partner who stays structured, but can consistently be counted on when the situation and structure allows it... while being good enough with the puck to be able to be counted on to make the right, or at least safe, play consistently.

TLDR... Makar relies more on his partner to be predictable and an option. He plays more 5 man hockey. While Barrie is an off script player that just needs a safety net when it backfires.

 

[AvsWraith]

Honestly, he looks like an AHL defensemen.

 

[Pokecheque]

Honestly, he looks like an AHL defensemen.

Based on what I've heard/read, he's actually better suited for the NHL than the AHL.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Based on what I've heard/read, he's actually better suited for the NHL than the AHL.

Naw, some folks on HFB just think all six dmen should be flawless and if they aren't, they are AHL caliber players.

 

[Foppa2118]

There is a big difference in the way that Barrie and Makar play the game. Barrie is better with the puck, uses that to his advantage, and skates and attacks creatively based on that. He simply needs a partner who will defer towards him, pushes him to play that way, or fully has his back when things go awry. When Z is on his game, he can be a safe partner to play with and he can defer well to a partner when he's not trying to do too much.... and he's great on the rush, which when things break down with Barrie, it is frequently a rush sort of situation. Makar plays a much more cerebral sort of game where he needs a predictable partner who stays structured, but can consistently be counted on when the situation and structure allows it... while being good enough with the puck to be able to be counted on to make the right, or at least safe, play consistently.

TLDR... Makar relies more on his partner to be predictable and an option. He plays more 5 man hockey. While Barrie is an off script player that just needs a safety net when it backfires.

You're making the argument for why Zadorov can be a good partner for Makar. Certainly in the context of Graves vs Zadorov and on his game/off his game.

 

[AvsWraith]

Naw, some folks on HFB just think all six dmen should be flawless and if they aren't, they are AHL caliber players.

Well, when you can't rely on EJ or Cole to be solid, the focus on Graves rises. Unfair? Probably, but it still happens.

 

[Pokecheque]

Graves is not as good defensively as Z IMO, but he is better with the puck. Don't know if that's the reason why it works, but Makar does seem to be a lot more comfortable with him because of that.

 

[klozge]

As much as I liked Graves early in the season, he's been awful lately. I don't think Avs can afford to have both him and Cole in the lineup. Yes, Z sucks as well right now but he can be a difference maker sometimes. Cole and Graves are just creating chaos in their own zone while not really adding anything offensively.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I think Graves is a better player than he gets credit for by some, not saying he is a top 4 player, but he fits as a 5-6 guy on a ton of teams in the league.

Problem is, he is on a team where they have 3 (kinda 4) guys that fill the same role. Zadorov, Graves, EJ, and to a lesser extent Cole, are basically the same player....decent enough players, but if not used properly they get exposed. All 4 are bottom pairing D men at this point....with Zadorov and Graves maybe having some room to grow still and EJ and Cole having the experience edge. Mix it in with the undersized Girard and the rookie Makar, and it gets dicey at times. (Cole is a cut below EJ/Zadorov/Graves IMO but he does have that playoff/experience edge)

The D core is 2-3 years behind the forwards in terms of development. In the next few years we will see Cole move on, EJ either move on or accept a smaller deal in a reduced role, and one of Zadorov/Graves moved.

 

[McMetal]

More and more, he reminds me of Nick Holden. Big frame, but not very physical, good skater but questionable defensive reads put him behind the play a lot, pinches in for the occasional goal but not a big point producer. Overall, a fine bottom pair D who is exposed with top 4 ice time and matchups.

 

[Pokecheque]

More and more, he reminds me of Nick Holden. Big frame, but not very physical, good skater but questionable defensive reads put him behind the play a lot, pinches in for the occasional goal but not a big point producer. Overall, a fine bottom pair D who is exposed with top 4 ice time and matchups.

I think that's pretty spot-on. If Graves could do the back door play as well as Holden that one year he'd be a double-digit goal scorer.

 

[Balthazar]

More and more, he reminds me of Nick Holden. Big frame, but not very physical, good skater but questionable defensive reads put him behind the play a lot, pinches in for the occasional goal but not a big point producer. Overall, a fine bottom pair D who is exposed with top 4 ice time and matchups.

He's not overly physical but he's not a big softy either, which I like.

Personally I've no problem with Graves as a #6 defenseman long term..but Bednar would have to resist the urge to play him more than that. Just like Roy and Holden.

 

[Freudian]

Quietly +14 on the season. Every hockey aficionado knows +/- is among the best stats because it can go up and it can go down.

Seriously, it looks like he's gambling at times but since he doesn't get burned nearly as often as EJ/Cole does when they gamble, I suspect Graves has decent instincts.

 

[klozge]

He seems to have calmed down a bit and is playing better again imo.

 

[CB Joe]

He'll keep getting ice time as long as he keeps shooting. I wish our forwards would do the same.

 

[CobraAcesS]

More and more, he reminds me of Nick Holden. Big frame, but not very physical, good skater but questionable defensive reads put him behind the play a lot, pinches in for the occasional goal but not a big point producer. Overall, a fine bottom pair D who is exposed with top 4 ice time and matchups.

No..

There is one huge difference. Graves can actually make a breakout pass. You must have blocked out all of those icings.

 

[LTC Pain]

I'm just fine with Graves on the bottom pairing. That play he made last night coming out of the box was premo!

 

[NORiculous]

2 pts so far tonight.

 

[Tender Rip]

Hmmm... I don't see Colorado enough, but I have been wondering about many Avalanche fans mentioning Graves as someone they'd like to trade... and looking at the game tonight and his numbers.... I find that hard to understand.

Is it just because he doesn't skate as well as many of your other players? I mean, he is just about leading the league in plus/minus and produces extremely well for a third pairing D-guy.

 

[McMetal]

He's put together a really good stretch of games here with EJ out. At least for the moment, I'd say he's playing like a top 4 guy. We'll see if that continues but credit where it's due, he's been really improving his steadiness as of late.

 

[tbassler]

He leads the league in +/-. Scored another goal tonight.

He is not flashy, not a really fast skater, not a great stickhandler. He is solid though and improving weekly. He has a powerful shot, makes some thundering hits.

Being a Rangers fan who lives in Colorado, I never expected him to get to this level. But I didnt coach him every day. Rangers lost that trade.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

He's going to score 30 points and suddenly the Avs are going to have to pay the guy.