how good was Orr ?

[Abyss]

I respect your opinion and if anyone says Orr was better than Gretzky, although I disagree, I can understand.

However, I will take Wayne's slapshot over Bob's slapshot any day of the week and twice on Sunday...

And I'll take Orr's all around game over Wayne's everyday.

 

[Ogopogo*]

And I'll take Orr's all around game over Wayne's everyday.

Everybody overrates the "all around" game. Honestly, what value was Orr to the Bruins when he spent 5 minutes in the penalty box?

You can have the all around game, I'll take the greatest scorer in the history of the game. After all, whoever scores the most, wins. You don't score (or prevent goals) when you ain't on the ice.

BTW, for those that didn't watch any of the classic Oilers games on CBC the past week, Gretzky's defensive game was very underrated.

Gretz also won more cups than Orr.

Not trying to bash Orr, he had the 3rd greatest career of all time. I am just tired of the Gretzky bashers.

 

[Sotnos]

I have a collection of DVD's of Orr games that I bought on ebay. Watched them endlessly and really got to see his game.

If you or anyone else could hook me up with the name of that I'd be in your debt! I've been looking for an Orr or a 70s Bruins DVD for my dad forever and haven't found anything.

 

[ClassicHockey]

If you contact me privately, I'll put you in touch with someone who has a documentary on Orr from the 70's that no one has seen since the original airdate in 1970. Its the best one ever done.

If you or anyone else could hook me up with the name of that I'd be in your debt! I've been looking for an Orr or a 70s Bruins DVD for my dad forever and haven't found anything.

 

[dafoomie]

Everybody overrates the "all around" game. Honestly, what value was Orr to the Bruins when he spent 5 minutes in the penalty box?

You can have the all around game, I'll take the greatest scorer in the history of the game. After all, whoever scores the most, wins. You don't score (or prevent goals) when you ain't on the ice.

BTW, for those that didn't watch any of the classic Oilers games on CBC the past week, Gretzky's defensive game was very underrated.

Gretz also won more cups than Orr.

Not trying to bash Orr, he had the 3rd greatest career of all time. I am just tired of the Gretzky bashers.

How good was Orr? The best there ever was, period.

Comparing Orr's points to Gretzky's is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Bobby Orr was a defenseman. Of course Gretzky won more cups, he had a much longer career, and played on a dynasty. Those Bruins teams were great teams, but the dynasty Oilers were perhaps the greatest teams ever assembled. How many cups did he win after Edmonton?

Wayne Gretzky is the greatest scorer of all time. Wayne Gretzky had the greatest career of all time. But Bobby Orr was the better player in the short time he played. Orr could control a game single handedly. If he wanted to play keep away with the puck, he could, and there was nothing you could do about it. Also, he didn't fight a ton after his first year or two, so I don't know where you're getting the 'gone for 5 minutes'. Orr is a defensemen, he would be on the ice more by definition anyway.

If statistics are your bag (they don't mean too much to me), lets look at +/-. Bobby Orr was a +124 one year and was a +80 or more 3 times. Gretzky's best was a +98, and a +80 one other time, in a 20 year career.

Not to bash Gretzky, but I don't think you know a thing about Bobby Orr. Its a waste of time to argue who is better, they're obviously 1 and 2. But I take exception to those who would say theres no contest, or who deride Orr. They're the top 2, and what order they're in is quite debatable.

 

[ClassicHockey]

I won't compare Orr with Gretzky because it can't be fairly done - different eras, positions, styles etc. We know that both were the top players in their time.

I've watched Bobby Orr from his first game as a Junior as a 14 year old to his painful days with Chicago. I remember that first game like yesterday. He was wearing #2 playing left defence, was smaller than any other player and was the only player on both teams to wear a helmet.

The Rangers had pretty good teams in the late 60's & early 70's and almost won the Cup in 1972. I spoke to a few Rangers about the series and why they didn't win. They all said the same three words , 'They had Orr'.

He was just too much to handle.(and he was playing on one leg in that series too).

Beside being a great talent, Orr was also humble and would not always pad his stats
by running up scores. Orr once told his teammates between periods not to embarass the California Seals any more in one game because they were trying to sell hockey in that market.

Orr is featured in Episode 6 of the People's History series (now scheduled in September on Sunday nights) and the way Orr changed the game is talked about.

For those that weren't able to watch Orr in his prime, there is an awful lot of video footage available showing his great plays. And that is good because as time passes, you tend to forget how great a certain player was.

Most people forget that in the 1970 Finals vs St. Louis, that Scotty Bowman put forward Jim Roberts out to strictly shadow Orr. I don't think that's been done before or since.

If I was starting a team from scratch it would be pretty hard not to take a Gretzky in his prime. But an Orr in his prime can supply the offence and play pretty good defence as well. And Orr was tough although his aggresiveness and willingness to take chances ultimately worked against him, unfortunately.

 

[Trottier]

The Rangers had pretty good teams in the late 60's & early 70's and almost won the Cup in 1972. I spoke to a few Rangers about the series and why they didn't win. They all said the same three words , 'They had Orr'.

As you know, that NYR team featured the GAG line (sans the injured Ratelle in the playoffs), the 2nd best dman in the game (Brad Park) and a superb goaltending tandem. No slouches were they. My earliest hockey memories...Sport Illustrated cover that spring, featuring Orr and Espo: "Boston's Big Guns (open the fold)...Fire on New York" (photo of Ed Giacomin)...The late Ace Bailey scoring late in Game One in Boston, a high scoring affair, if I recall correctly...Park and Orr squaring off at center ice at MSG during that series (covered by CBS in the states).

Funny footnote: couple years later, at the all-star game, held at MSG, Orr skated out on the ice after being introduced...and proceeded to get his skate caught on the infamously lousy MSG ice and fall on his backside. Much to his, the crowd's and his teammate's amusement.

He was just too much to handle.(and he was playing on one leg in that series too).

Went in for major knee surgery that summer of '72 if I'm not mistaken. Kind of the beginning of the end.

Beside being a great talent, Orr was also humble and would not always pad his stats
by running up scores. Orr once told his teammates between periods not to embarass the California Seals any more in one game because they were trying to sell hockey in that market.

Brian Heyward, former goalie (and now the homer-commentator for the Ducks) tells a similar story about Mario in the early 90s. Pens were blowing out the expansion Sharks in SJ. Mario had an open net and instead shot the puck into Heyward...Then he winked at him.

 

[Flash Walken]

I love this forum.

More stories please.

 

[Leaf Lander]

awsome video

 

[Alpine]

Number 4 Bobby Orr, he changed how the position is played. Clones like Serge Savard and Denis Potvin imitated but never duplicated. Each generation has their stars Rocket in the 50's, Howe, Hull overlaped in the 60's. Then came Gretzky and super Mario and lately some guy named Sidney. I always loved LaFleur in full flight too but.......he's not remembered the same and neither is Boom Boom who is claimed to have invented the slapshot.
But when you ask who was so good that they changed how the game is played the list gets shorter. Harvey, Plante, Gretzky, and definatly ORR, I'm sure there are others. Alot depends on your era. But Orr was an innovator at his position and in his time.

 

[Capt Tuttle]

Harry Sinden said, "Howe could do everything, but not at top speed. Hull went at top speed but couldn't do everything. The physical aspect is absent from Gretzky's game. Orr would do everything, and do it at top speed. He's the perfect hockey player."

Tell your dad to compare Bobby Orr's three straight Hart Trophies to Wayne Gretzky's eight straight Hart Trophies. Gretzky was better in my book even if he couldn't throw a big hit.

I once heard it put that Gretzky dominated on the scoreboard and Orr dominated on the ice. They were both great players, definitely 1-2. I'd have to put Orr first though.

 

[04' hockey]

If Gretzky was forced to retire after 9 season like Orr did, everyone would be saying the same thing about Wayne.

They don't have to, Gretz' career needs no help, BUT, had ORR played as long as he wanted to, as sure as the sun sets in the west ORR would have excelled to the very end and surely affirmed his place as the BEST EVER! Lest we forget ORR's last full year he was 28 yrs. old! Each year of his career he got better and better. Where would he have peaked??

That simple gents. If he played today he'd be head and shoulder above the rest. What Dman in todays NHL has even a snowballs chance in hell to win the Art Ross Trphy??????????????? ANYBODY?

 

[Gerry4001]

I would never bash The Gretzer, he is the Great One. Comparing him to Orr is a compliment, saying Orr was better is not saying Gretz was crap.

I see it in a pure visual razzle, dazzle, entertainment kind of way and Orr takes the cake. That flying goal in overtime? Geez, how much more dramatic can you get? and that 69-70 season Orr had is voted best ever hands down. He just needed a cape on his back.

Howe told Gretz to work on his backhand cause most of the goals would be rebounds around an open net such as his career record breaking goal and Howe says Orr was the best.

They would have been awesome together in the same team.

As for Paul Coffey, he was great too, but he didn't put the top 4 point getters of the league in a season on his back... Orr did it twice.

 

[arrbez]

That simple gents. If he played today he'd be head and shoulder above the rest. What Dman in todays NHL has even a snowballs chance in hell to win the Art Ross Trphy??????????????? ANYBODY?

Bryan "Bobby Orr" McCabe

 

[04' hockey]

Bryan "Bobby Orr" McCabe

Yes.....a lot more coffee, stimulants, maybe steroids.....he's got a shot.

 

[PurpleShamrock]

Bryan "Bobby Orr" McCabe

As fine an offensive defenseman as McCabe is, he scored 68 points this season -- an impressive total for a defenseman, yes, but still barely more than half of the 125 points put on the board by league leader Joe Thornton. I just don't see it happening...

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

Comparing Orr's points to Gretzky's is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Bobby Orr was a defenseman.

So, wouldn't comparing Orr's defense to Gretzky's defense be equally as asinine then?

Seriously though, sombody needs to plug in the VCR to their CPU and capture that Best of Bobby orr video for us all.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

Many people said that there was Bobby Orr and then there was everyone else. These same people claim that they should have invented another league for Bobby Orr.

My Dad has often told me that Gretzky in his prime wouldn't be fit to lace Orr's skates when Orr was in his prime.

Yea, it's a shame the world never got to see it.

 

[Flash Walken]

Number 4 Bobby Orr, he changed how the position is played. Clones like Serge Savard and Denis Potvin imitated but never duplicated. Each generation has their stars Rocket in the 50's, Howe, Hull overlaped in the 60's. Then came Gretzky and super Mario and lately some guy named Sidney. I always loved LaFleur in full flight too but.......he's not remembered the same and neither is Boom Boom who is claimed to have invented the slapshot.
But when you ask who was so good that they changed how the game is played the list gets shorter. Harvey, Plante, Gretzky, and definatly ORR, I'm sure there are others. Alot depends on your era. But Orr was an innovator at his position and in his time.

Again, I preface this by saying I never actually saw either player during their prime, but from what I know of each, I wouldn't call Potvin an Orr Clone.

 

[dafoomie]

So, wouldn't comparing Orr's defense to Gretzky's defense be equally as asinine then?

Seriously though, sombody needs to plug in the VCR to their CPU and capture that Best of Bobby orr video for us all.

Of course it would, and I don't recall doing that. A defenseman's defense should be better than any forward's. But, a fair argument (whether its true or not) would be that Gretzky's defensive play wasn't that great, while Orr excelled at every aspect of the game. Orr was no Paul Coffey, he played defense at a hall of fame level as well.

 

[#66]

Of course it would, and I don't recall doing that. A defenseman's defense should be better than any forward's. But, a fair argument (whether its true or not) would be that Gretzky's defensive play wasn't that great, while Orr excelled at every aspect of the game. Orr was no Paul Coffey, he played defense at a hall of fame level as well.

As much as I like Orr and rank him as the best ever, I just can't agree with that at all. IMO Orr gets way to much credit for his defense. He made his share of mistakes and I would put him defensively with Brian Leetch as being good but not great. That he would put up those numbers while playing any kind of D is awesome but he does get over-rated defensively. On that note he did have the puck for what seemed to be 80% of the game so I guess thats a form of defense.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

As much as I like Orr and rank him as the best ever, I just can't agree with that at all. IMO Orr gets way to much credit for his defense. He made his share of mistakes and I would put him defensively with Brian Leetch as being good but not great. That he would put up those numbers while playing any kind of D is awesome but he does get over-rated defensively. On that note he did have the puck for what seemed to be 80% of the game so I guess thats a form of defense.

Furthermore, Wayne Gretzky's defensive play is vastly underrated.

 

[arrbez]

This thread is remarkably Chooch-free so far. Are the rumours of his banning true?

 

[Sens Rule]

Furthermore, Wayne Gretzky's defensive play is vastly underrated.

Yeah, there was discussion of that after the re-airing of the Edmonton Oilers clinching games on CBC last week.

 

[doc5hole]

The elusive thing for the younger generation of fan to grasp when trying to envision Orr in this era of NHL is what a direct, aggressive and tough player he was, so unlike the prototypical offensive defenseman of modern times. Miss that and you don't get Orr.