How good was Larry Murphy?

[Passchendaele]

He hardly ever gets mentioned amongst the all-time greats, yet, does not get half the hate Phil Housley does.

- Over 1600 career games.
- 1200+ career points.
- A still-standing rookie defenseman record of 76 points.
- 4 Stanley Cups. Might have won a 5th had he stuck around one more season.

Strangely enough, not unlike Coffey, he was moved an obscene amount of times in his career.

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[SlickHands]

Murph is pretty loved basically everywhere he played. He's back on FSN in Detroit too and the fans here still love him.

However, the point total is definitely a bit of a byproduct of the era he played in, but he was great on both ends. Slow as hell though, especially towards the end.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He wasn't loved in Toronto and for good reason. Detroit more or less resurrected his career.

Murphy was a very slow skater, but great at holding the line and doing everything else needed to be a consistently good (though never elite) PPQB his entire career.

He was a pretty smart player who could adjust to team needs, but never really that "true #1" Toronto wanted. Did a fantastic job of fitting in with Pittsburgh and Detroit though. Everyone was surprised by how effective defensively he was next to Lidstrom.

In a way, he's the defensemen version of Ron Francis - in that if you're relying on him to carry your team, your team won't be very good. But he's best served as an elite complementary player - a role he was effective at for a very long time.

Not at all like Housley, who was basically incapable of playing system hockey.

 

[JackSlater]

I'd say that Murphy was a pretty consistent top 20 defenceman with some years at the bottom of the top 10. Really smart player. He shouldn't really be compared with Housley, as he was perhaps a bit worse offensively (due to speed mainly) but far better defensively. He was good enough in his prime that he made Pittsburgh feel comfortable with getting rid of still-prime Coffey (I know about Bowman and his thoughts on Coffey but he still needed someone in that role). He also doesn't get as much credit as he should for Detroit's defensive effort in the 1997 finals.

 

[WingsFan95]

Just never won a Norris. Why he gets undercut behind the Bourque-Robinson-Potvin-Chelios-Coffey, etc types.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Just never won a Norris. Why he gets undercut behind the Bourque-Robinson-Potvin-Chelios-Coffey, etc types.

He also wasn't ever particularly close to winning one, either.

 

[Tweed]

He also wasn't ever particularly close to winning one, either.

@The Panther pointed out years ago:

Seven times he was in the top 10 for Norris voting, but no higher than 3rd (in '87 and '93).

Not sure if you consider that "close" though, @TheDevilMadeMe.

 

[FerrisRox]

He wasn't loved in Toronto and for good reason.

Actually, there wasn't a good reason. The reason he wasn't loved in Toronto is largely because of a clueless fanbase that had no idea what kind of player he was when they acquired him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think someone once also mentioned that he wasn't well-liked in minnesota. interesting, then, that he didn't fit in in two places and didn't last long, but both times he immediately helped propel the next team to back-to-back cups.

 

[VanIslander]

Larry Murphy was in his 16th NHL season when he went to Toronto.

He had lost the speed he had in L.A. and Washington in the 1980's.

He hadn't lost the hockey sense. He has said he always prided himself at playing responsibly at both ends of the ice. Bowman used him A LOT in Pittsburgh and Detroit. And Scotty doesn't suffer fools gladly.

Murphy also didn't play a physical style despite his size. Tbe Leaf fan base has cheered a lot of dumb but rough guys (Wendel Clark, Tie Domi).

 

[The Panther]

Actually, there wasn't a good reason. The reason he wasn't loved in Toronto is largely because of a clueless fanbase that had no idea what kind of player he was when they acquired him.

Epic thread-bump going on here!

While I wouldn't go as far as to say that Toronto had a "clueless fanbase", I do agree that Murphy was fine there and deserved to be appreciated by Leafs' fans.

Murphy had one of the more impressive seasons ever by a D-man, I think, in 1980-81, but since it happened in L.A. at that time, nobody in Toronto or New York or Montreal saw it.

 

[GMR]

What were the "future considerations" that Toronto traded Murphy to Detroit for?

 

[The Panther]

My mistake. Not a thread bump... a new thread!

 

[Jim MacDonald]

He also doesn't get as much credit as he should for Detroit's defensive effort in the 1997 finals.

Jack I bought that "Celebration of Champions" DVD that has a bunch of the Red Wing classic games. It has the ESPN broadcast of Game 4 of the 97 finals. If I remember correctly Gary Thorne said Murphy was a +15 in the playoffs!

 

[VanIslander]

What were the "future considerations" that Toronto traded Murphy to Detroit for?

Front row guest seats to watch Murphy play 24 minutes a night for multiple Stanley Cup champions at Joe Louis Arena just down the highway past Windsor.

 

[JackSlater]

Jack I bought that "Celebration of Champions" DVD that has a bunch of the Red Wing classic games. It has the ESPN broadcast of Game 4 of the 97 finals. If I remember correctly Gary Thorne said Murphy was a +15 in the playoffs!

Murphy was the +/- leader in the playoffs in both 1997 and 1998.

 

[overpass]

i think someone once also mentioned that he wasn't well-liked in minnesota. interesting, then, that he didn't fit in in two places and didn't last long, but both times he immediately helped propel the next team to back-to-back cups.

Murphy clashed with coaches who wanted physical play from him, including and maybe especially Pierre Page. He played very well for coaches who allowed him to play a more puck-possession style—Bob Berry, Scotty Bowman, etc.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Murphy clashed with coaches who wanted physical play from him, including and maybe especially Pierre Page. He played very well for coaches who allowed him to play a more puck-possession style—Bob Berry, Scotty Bowman, etc.

makes sense

does anyone know why LA traded him for what to me seems like an underpayment?

 

[The Pale King]

makes sense

does anyone know why LA traded him for what to me seems like an underpayment?

This article from the very reputable Gann Matsuda lays it out pretty nicely: One Of The Most Lopsided Trades In NHL History Involved The LA Kings And Larry Murphy

“He was such a laid back person, and that’s the way he played,” said former Kings left wing Charlie Simmer, a member of the famed Triple Crown Line with Marcel Dionne and Dave Taylor. “He was misunderstood. He was a bigger guy, and that was the era of fighting, the Broad Street Bullies [Philadelphia Flyers] and the Big, Bad Bruins [Boston Bruins].”


“They were always trying to get him into that type of mode, but that’s not him,” added Simmer, who played with Murphy throughout the time Murphy was with the Kings. “His game, as we saw through his whole career, was a point-getting, calm defenseman. He didn’t change, other than he just got better and better with confidence and experience.”


Rather than adapt their coaching style and tactics to the players on the roster, MacDonald, and especially Perry, stubbornly and foolishly forced their players into a particular mold and style of play, which included more hitting and fighting. This proved to be a huge mistake, especially with a player of Murphy’s caliber."

TLDR is that Coach Bob Berry, who recognized that Murphy was a great possession d-man was fired, and his replacement looked at anyone taller than 6'0 and expected them to goon it up. This is a recurring theme amongst terrible coaches, regardless of era, in this case Parker McDonald (who sounds more like a b-rate board game company than a coach, but I digress). He was a solid enough player, just very stuck in the old-school mentality.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

This article from the very reputable Gann Matsuda lays it out pretty nicely: One Of The Most Lopsided Trades In NHL History Involved The LA Kings And Larry Murphy

“He was such a laid back person, and that’s the way he played,” said former Kings left wing Charlie Simmer, a member of the famed Triple Crown Line with Marcel Dionne and Dave Taylor. “He was misunderstood. He was a bigger guy, and that was the era of fighting, the Broad Street Bullies [Philadelphia Flyers] and the Big, Bad Bruins [Boston Bruins].”


“They were always trying to get him into that type of mode, but that’s not him,” added Simmer, who played with Murphy throughout the time Murphy was with the Kings. “His game, as we saw through his whole career, was a point-getting, calm defenseman. He didn’t change, other than he just got better and better with confidence and experience.”


Rather than adapt their coaching style and tactics to the players on the roster, MacDonald, and especially Perry, stubbornly and foolishly forced their players into a particular mold and style of play, which included more hitting and fighting. This proved to be a huge mistake, especially with a player of Murphy’s caliber."

TLDR is that Bob Berry, who recognized that Murphy was a great possession d-man was fired, and his replacement looked at anyone taller than 6'0 and expected them to goon it up.

thanks.

so that's three coaches. at what point do we say, well larry murphy was a hall of fame talent but gee isn't he kind of limited when he can only succeed with a certain kind of coach?

 

[pbgoalie]

Faulty memory, @ 56, but I watched Larry play for the akings quite a bit.

Is it me, or did he go on a Barry Bomds type Helmet enlargement program?

 

[VanIslander]

Is it me, or did he go on a Barry Bomds type Helmet enlargement program?

It must have helped, as Murphy broke the NHL record for most games played by a defenseman (held until then by Horton, broken since by Stevens).

 

[Tarantula]

He was also not particularly liked in Washington as well. He was often razzed when he returned as a visiting player.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

@The Panther pointed out years ago:



Not sure if you consider that "close" though, @TheDevilMadeMe.

I honestly forgot about 87 when I initially posted that, but his 3rd place finish there was so far behind the leaders

1987:

Place	Player	Age	Tm	Pos	Votes	Vote%	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	G	A	PTS	+/-	OPS	DPS	GPS	PS
1	Ray Bourque	26	BOS	D	266	98.52	52	2	0			23	72	95	44	7.2	6.4	0.0	13.6
2	Mark Howe	31	PHI	D	137	50.74	1	42	6			15	43	58	57	4.1	6.5	0.0	10.5
3	Larry Murphy	25	WSH	D	31	11.48	0	5	16			23	58	81	25	6.1	5.7	0.0	11.9
4	Larry Robinson	35	MTL	D	12	4.44	0	2	6			13	37	50	24	3.2	5.7	0.0	9.0
5	Paul Coffey	25	EDM	D	10	3.70	1	0	5			17	50	67	13	5.0	2.6	0.0	7.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1993 is a lot closer, but in retrospect, it sure looks like being the #1 on Mario Lemieux's team helped him:

Place	Player	Age	Tm	Pos	Votes	Vote%	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	G	A	PTS	+/-	OPS	DPS	GPS	PS
1	Chris Chelios	31	CHI	D	201	80.40	33	10	6			15	58	73	14	4.8	6.3	0.0	11.1
2	Ray Bourque	32	BOS	D	97	38.80	6	19	10			19	63	82	38	5.9	6.3	0.0	12.2
3	Larry Murphy	31	PIT	D	93	37.20	9	11	15			22	63	85	45	6.2	6.2	0.0	12.4
4	Kevin Hatcher	26	WSH	D	17	6.80	0	5	2			34	45	79	-7	6.6	4.0	0.0	10.6
5	Phil Housley	28	WIN	D	16	6.40	1	2	5			18	79	97	-14	6.8	2.9	0.0	9.8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[VanIslander]

To be a top-pairing guy on a Bowman team says a lot.