How does Shero plug hole on blueline?

[SteveCangialosi123]

Since Shero has stated he thinks Greene is our best offensive dman, does that mean he'll be used on the PP? If so, how is that gonna work? He's gonna be leaned on heavily on the PK and I assume at ES if he plays the minutes he did last year. What's he gonna be playing, 28 minutes a night?

We really don't have much offensive talent on the blueline at all so it's hard to disagree with Shero. No one has really proven a damn thing offensively in their careers other than Greene.

 

[217 Forever]

Since Shero has stated he thinks Greene is our best offensive dman, does that mean he'll be used on the PP? If so, how is that gonna work? He's gonna be leaned on heavily on the PK and I assume at ES if he plays the minutes he did last year. What's he gonna be playing, 28 minutes a night?

We really don't have much offensive talent on the blueline at all so it's hard to disagree with Shero. No one has really proven a damn thing offensively in their careers other than Greene.

It's a mess back there offensively. They really have to add another body for the PP unless we are going with forwards at the point. How much can you ask Greene to do?

 

[goonybird]

It's possible they were looking to trade Sevs before Hall came available, we'll never know that now. But if they were going to keep both and still sign Lovejoy that means they weren't that convinced about Santini contributing this year.

Shero implied they were in trade discussions for a period of time, and then Larsson's name was brought up to which he replied 'we want Hall if Larsson is going'. (paraphrased)

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Greene-Santini
Merrill-Lovejoy
Moore-Santini
Auvitu/Helgeson

I think it starts out as. Dont think that is playoff calibur unless everyone steps up to the plate and delivers.

 

[JimEIV]

Really Larsson/Severson 2015 has very little to do with the 2016 D either, and that debate's already been had in multiple threads at this point.

I see the question as how much different(better or worse) is Larsson -Severson vs Severson-Lovejoy next year?

And maybe throw in Schlemko vs. Santini looking at the whole right side.

The left side hasn't changed at all as of right now.

I don't think much is lost. We should have 3 better balanced pairings that help drive the play much better next season

I do think we have to find someone to make up Larsson's PK minutes though

 

[NjDevsRR]

Greene-Santini
Merrill-Lovejoy
Moore-Santini
Auvitu/Helgeson

I think it starts out as. Dont think that is playoff calibur unless everyone steps up to the plate and delivers.

Severson! Although I'd take two Santinis

 

[Ripshot 43]

Severson! Although I'd take two Santinis

Nope... The Great Santini is so good, he can split himself in two.

Either that or he's clearly going to be double shifted.

 

[MoonDragn]

Nope... The Great Santini is so good, he can split himself in two.

Either that or he's clearly going to be double shifted.

Must be some kind of magician.

 

[MadDevil]

Shero implied they were in trade discussions for a period of time, and then Larsson's name was brought up to which he replied 'we want Hall if Larsson is going'. (paraphrased)

Shero was on Hockey Central the day after the trade and said that he and Chiarelli were talking about what their team's needs were back at the 2015 draft, so it's not surprising a trade eventually went down. They needed a RHD, of which we had several. We needed a forward, of which they had several. Luckily for us Shero is a pretty good trader and he held out until Chiarelli blinked.

As for Larsson, we're going to miss what he does on defense. I don't think we're going to suddenly become bad defensively by any means, but he's one of those players that I don't think we truly appreciate what they do until they're not there anymore.

 

[Triumph]

I see the question as how much different(better or worse) is Larsson -Severson vs Severson-Lovejoy next year?

And maybe throw in Schlemko vs. Santini looking at the whole right side.

The left side hasn't changed at all as of right now.

I don't think much is lost. We should have 3 better balanced pairings that help drive the play much better next season

I do think we have to find someone to make up Larsson's PK minutes though

The left side changed a lot - Schlemko left. And while you love to trot out your Severson-Larsson numbers, it should be noted that Schlemko was above water all season and was good, whereas people like Merrill and Moore were not.

And of course Helgeson in limited time was real bad and he's still here.

Hall will help out the defense on balance, but they will likely be giving up more shots. There's really not any depth, either.

 

[JimEIV]

The left side changed a lot - Schlemko left. And while you love to trot out your Severson-Larsson numbers, it should be noted that Schlemko was above water all season and was good, whereas people like Merrill and Moore were not.

And of course Helgeson in limited time was real bad and he's still here.

Hall will help out the defense on balance, but they will likely be giving up more shots. There's really not any depth, either.

Schlemko played the right side nearly all year. In fact a couple of times Severson played the offside with him.

Schlemko was on the right side probably around 75% of last season... maybe more.

 

[NJDevs26]

He might have meant the right side changed a lot which it did since as you noted Schlemko was a L playing on the right side.

Larsson-Schlemko-Severson
Severson-Lovejoy-Santini/?

 

[DanteDevilsHockey]

I'm quite unsure if this hole will be filled by the time the season rolls around this year. However, the Devils have never been an atrocious team on the defensive side if the game. Larsson won't be easy to replace, but there could be multiple ways to fill his hole on the top pairing. We did acquire Lovejoy, which is a good veteran presence as a defensively responsible defenseman. Doesn't look like we're pursuing Kris Russell, but a trade for Cam Fowler may not be out of the question. I would rather develop our defensive core through the draft and developing our current prospects. Hopefully Santini lives up to expectations and Josh Jacobs can develop nicely in Sarnia. Our core of defensemen won't be sexy for a while unless we get a guy like Cam Fowler through trade, but I'm confident that Shero has a plan.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Jacobs is 20 now I believe, don't think he will be back in Sarnia

 

[Marshal Rochambeau]

Kyle Quincey is still available and I'd sign him to a 2-year deal worth $8 million total. I'd then sign Wisniewski to a 1-year deal worth $3 million.

Greene - Wisniewski
Quincey - Severson
Merrill - Lovejoy
Moore

It's a lot safer to go in with that depth. Santini would get the call up if one of the RD gets injured but that is Hynes decision.

 

[EnglishDevil]

Kyle Quincey is still available and I'd sign him to a 2-year deal worth $8 million total. I'd then sign Wisniewski to a 1-year deal worth $3 million.

Greene - Wisniewski
Quincey - Severson
Merrill - Lovejoy
Moore

It's a lot safer to go in with that depth. Santini would get the call up if one of the RD gets injured but that is Hynes decision.

If we sign Quincey to a 2 year 8 million dollar deal i'll gouge my eyes out with a spoon He'll be lucky to get a PTO, he's considerably worse than both Moore and Merrill.

Wisniewski doesn't deserve 3 million either, he played less than 60 seconds of professional hockey last season. 1 year for 1-1.5 million sounds about right for him.

 

[Marshal Rochambeau]

If we sign Quincey to a 2 year 8 million dollar deal i'll gouge my eyes out with a spoon He'll be lucky to get a PTO, he's considerably worse than both Moore and Merrill.

Wisniewski doesn't deserve 3 million either, he played less than 60 seconds of professional hockey last season. 1 year for 1-1.5 million sounds about right for him.

Quincey is the best on the market right now. Wis is better offensively than anyone we have now.

 

[kiwidevil]

It's more the dynamic of our D that I am worried about. We don't really have any D that can drive the play.

Most of our D, the best thing you can say about them is "they can mostly/sometimes make a good first pass". But none are particularity great at springing forwards or creating with their passes or a threat with their shot.

At the same time, Hynes needs to be prepared to let the reigns off at some point. We were pretty passive most of last year. Now that Hynes has more of a chance to pick his own players, I expect Fast, Attacking, Supportive to be more than a marketing campaign.

 

[JimEIV]

It's more the dynamic of our D that I am worried about. We don't really have any D that can drive the play.

Most of our D, the best thing you can say about them is "they can mostly/sometimes make a good first pass". But none are particularity great at springing forwards or creating with their passes or a threat with their shot.

At the same time, Hynes needs to be prepared to let the reigns off at some point. We were pretty passive most of last year. Now that Hynes has more of a chance to pick his own players, I expect Fast, Attacking, Supportive to be more than a marketing campaign.

Andy Greene was over 50% CF his entire career until he got paired with Larsson. 47% in 2015 and 42% this season with him.


EDIT: -

You can see the incredible drop off
TOI CF CA CF%
909.2 756 738 50.6
701 631 619 50.5
1469.5 1274 1229 50.9
1517.3 1265 1194 51.4
950.5 748 731 50.6
870.9 738 592 55.5
1501 1310 1048 55.6
1525.3 1221 1370 47.1
1519.7 993 1335 42.7

These are from Hockey Reference Possession stats
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/greenan01.html?

Triumph wanted zone adjusted - With Larsson the majority of the last two years he's been under 50% and the amount events generate for this season are the lowest of his entire career with zone adjustment. 31.52 For this season he was never under 36 at point of his career.
Season(s) TOI FF60 FA60 FF%
2015-16 1241:08:00 31.52 36.45 46.4
2014-15 1260:49:00 37.26 38.21 49.4
2013-14 1230:27:00 41.25 31.7 56.5
2012-13 712:07:00 37.75 28.39 57.1
2011-12 794:46:00 36.24 35.33 50.6
2010-11 1283:49:00 39.77 37.11 51.7
2009-10 1230:13:00 41.6 38.77 51.8
2008-09 593:43:00 42.24 44.87 48.5
2007-08 756:35:00 39.49 38.62 50.6

These are from Hockey analysis
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=944

Larsson
Season(s) TOI FF60 FA60 FF%
2015-16 1251:03:00 32.13 35.35 47.6
2014-15 923:47:00 35.79 38 48.5


Zone adjusted Severson was better than both Greene the last two years mostly with Merrill and Moore

Season(s) TOI FF60 FA60 FF%
2015-16 675:40:00 37.38 37.3 50.1
2014-15 576:57:00 38.17 40.14 48.7

Severson's For and Against haven't really changed much in the last two years.

 

[JimEIV]

Now this is not to say anyone is better, but they won't be able to use Greene next year like they have for the last two... and that is a good thing

I personally see those possession numbers for Greene as babysitting for the last two years.

 

[217 Forever]

Now this is not to say anyone is better, but they won't be able to use Greene next year like they have for the last two... and that is a good thing

I personally see those possession numbers for Greene as babysitting for the last two years.

I'm no fan of these advanced stats (in fact I could care less about them), but if Shero used them as a basis for considering Larsson "expendable" so to speak then I'm now the biggest advanced stat fan going....

 

[JimEIV]

Interesting article I just saw.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2016/7/6...mpt-shares-the-new-jersey-devils-adam-larsson

 

[JimEIV]

The only question left is:

ARE THESE ACTUALLY LARSSON'S RESULTS OR DID THE OILERS BUY HIGH ON ANOTHER ANDY GREENE PARTNER?

This is a tough question to answer.

As we saw in the tables that included Severson with Greene and without Greene, Greene's results don't change that much from Larsson to Severson with the exception of Zajac.

Does this mean Severson is good too or does it mean that Larsson isn't that good?

That's the million dollar question.

Another fun read.


http://becauseoilers.blogspot.ca/2016/07/oilers-right-hand-dman-search-concluded.html?m=1

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Severson is teh best..Larsson stinks. Am i doing it right??

 

[goonybird]

Argument seems irrelevant now. We have to make do with what we've been left with.