How do you want the Pens to play?

[66-30-33]

BTW we saw what a fast team can do to Boston in Toronto last playoffs. It wasn't untill everything was on the line the Leafs choked and Bruins ramped it up because they were desperate. Imagine if it was the Pens doing that to the Bruins and we never choked? We also got the 2 best players in the world on our team, so major advantage over Leafs.

 

[ColePens]

Let me rewrite my answer slightly.

Number one, but the ability, and the intelligence, to go to number two if the other team sells out completely to stop number one.

Oh... adapting is a guaranteed need for any team. I think that should be an unwritten law. You cannot just will your style on teams sometimes. You have to counter a counter occasionally. That's what makes a damn good hockey coach.

Good coaches have a strong strategy. GREAT coaches will find holes in it and adapt to exploit. That is why Bowman might be one of the best of all times. I always felt he had the answer way before the question was asked.

 

[66-30-33]

Oh... adapting is a guaranteed need for any team. I think that should be an unwritten law. You cannot just will your style on teams sometimes. You have to counter a counter occasionally. That's what makes a damn good hockey coach.

Good coaches have a strong strategy. GREAT coaches will find holes in it and adapt to exploit. That is why Bowman might be one of the best of all times. I always felt he had the answer way before the question was asked.

Too bad Mario hated the guy, we could have had more cups and Detroit wont be the team they were with that guy.

 

[ColePens]

Ideally fast and tenacious, but that doesn't mean you can't trap when you need to. It also doesn't mean you play reckless transition game by constantly stretching and having a huge gap between forwards and defense. I honestly think this team, with the personnel they have available to them, can play a fast tenacious game (and without the size and grit of teams like Boston, gives us the best chance to win). I'd go with:

Kunitz-Crosby-Stemps
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Megna
Glass-Goc-Vitale

You can swap Goc and Sutter if you like. I would be cool with Z instead of Glass but I do think Glass can serve a purpose if you 2 decent hockey players with him on a 4th line. Z and Vitale would be fun to watch though.

I've been a fan of the element of surprise coaching, too. Sometimes for 5-7 minutes, change the flow of the game up and trap. Keep the opposition thinking. By the time they react to a trap, pressure the **** out of them.

It amazes me that more coaches do not do that. You can really throw teams off by changing pace of a game.

 

[kodoshin]

The way the roster is now I think it's impossible for this team to win it all under any system. Given our top end players I'd like to see us a possession based offense that has long shifts in the opposing zone. The last couple years it has felt to me like we've been more of a team that focuses on scoring off the counterattack than wearing down the opposition with long quality offensive possessions. Unless we are on the powerplay our focus in the offensive zone is just to get a shot on net as fast as possible and hope for the best; I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like we very rarely work the puck around the offensive zone to try and make something happen unless we are on the power play. I'm not a fan of that.

What disturbs me about it is how a substantial amount of people seemed to think we only lost to Boston because of puck luck last year. They dominated that series because they were willing to set back and let us throw the puck at the net from areas that really aren't all that dangerous. This team, at least offensively, needs to work for higher quality scoring chances rather than just a certain number of shots on goal.

Defensively, I'm not gonna say it's perfect, but I think we are good enough. Certain personnel issues will hopefully be addressed in the offseason. I'd like to see Orpik go and I've certainly been no fan of Scuderi's work this year either, but I'm willing to give him a pass until next year.

 

[ColePens]

Too bad Mario hated the guy, we could have had more cups and Detroit wont be the team they were with that guy.

Well the story about the Caps series when Bowman didn't want to adapt was strange. That is just unlike Scotty. Wasn't it Mario who said we should trap?

That always struck me as odd. It won us the Cup that year, but I agree... I would love to see what would have happened if the players just bought into him.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Sutter's contract would be weird, but I completely love your line up. That is what I had in mind outside of Sutter. I'd move him and pick up another guy like Goc who just loves that style of play.

Your line up is pretty much my perfect cap-line up IMO. I love it. We even have guys like Sill and others who can come up and play that style.

Well right, that's pretty much just for riding out this season. Like you said, ideally you re-sign Goc, then move Sutter's rights for another Goc-like player, either center or wing -- you've got a perfectly fine 4th line center in Joey V anyway if you choose to go the wing route. And don't sleep on a guy like Archibald (assuming he signs before next season) making an impact sooner rather than later. Getting Dupes back in a bottom-6 role will be big as well (again, I know we're operating within the rules fantasy land, so that's where he ends up).

It's time again to start taking the play and pace to the other team like we used to.

I don't agree with Sutter on the 4th line. He is not a 4th-line type of player in my mind -- WAY too soft. Does he bring some skill there? Sure, and some defensive responsibility. But in my mind, an ideal 4th line is fast/good at forechecking/tough to play against. Sutter has a little speed, not great IMO, but that's all...just not a 4th-line guy on the type of 4th line I'd like to see...

I think pigeonholing line identities can lead to handicapping your lineup without actually needing to. Sutter would let Z and Joey V do their thing on the forecheck and create havoc on the O-zone while giving them a steady center presence throughout the neutral zone the ice and in the D-zone. Goc > Sutter, which is why Goc is on the 3rd line and would be getting more minutes anyways.

 

[IcedCapp]

Speed kills. I want a fast team, not soft mind you, who can hem teams in and wear them out with puck possession.

I realize speed AND grit is hard to find. I think Beau Bennett is the perfect example of a player I'd want. Not the fastest, but certainly a good skater and not the toughest, but great in the dirty areas.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Oh... adapting is a guaranteed need for any team. I think that should be an unwritten law. You cannot just will your style on teams sometimes. You have to counter a counter occasionally. That's what makes a damn good hockey coach.

Good coaches have a strong strategy. GREAT coaches will find holes in it and adapt to exploit. That is why Bowman might be one of the best of all times. I always felt he had the answer way before the question was asked.

Pretty much those two lines encapsulate my thoughts on Bylsma. The lack, so far at least, of that adaption which would make him great.

The irony is, I remember one of the cup winning teams in the early 90's being one game away from elimination. They had been playing the run and gun style and if I remember they had not won a game. And the story went that ironically it was Mario of all people who went into the locker room and said that unless they adapted to a defense first trapping style they would be golfing within 24 hours. They went on to win the rest of the games and the series. I tried looking up a link to the story, as I remember it but forgot who we were even playing. But couldn't find it. Most of you likely remember more details than I do.

I wish that Mario would have that memory and use it to make some needed decisions.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Oh... adapting is a guaranteed need for any team. I think that should be an unwritten law. You cannot just will your style on teams sometimes. You have to counter a counter occasionally. That's what makes a damn good hockey coach.

Good coaches have a strong strategy. GREAT coaches will find holes in it and adapt to exploit. That is why Bowman might be one of the best of all times. I always felt he had the answer way before the question was asked.

Right. And the important thing though is icing a lineup that's at least capable of really executing one style well at the very least. Right now we're consistently putting out what is essentially a bastardized combination of both of them, and it's leading to them basically not having an identity anymore.

At the moment we're not icing the players necessary to pull of option 1, and I really don't think we have the personnel to pull off option 2 effectively, which is why I'd say you'd go with #1, and pull them back when needed. You can always reign in great skaters -- you can't let slugs loose.

 

[Joejosh999]

Well the story about the Caps series when Bowman didn't want to adapt was strange. That is just unlike Scotty. Wasn't it Mario who said we should trap?

That always struck me as odd. It won us the Cup that year, but I agree... I would love to see what would have happened if the players just bought into him.

I've always wondered if that was urban legend.
Bowman if nothing else would adapt even from shift to shift....

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Well the story about the Caps series when Bowman didn't want to adapt was strange. That is just unlike Scotty. Wasn't it Mario who said we should trap?

That always struck me as odd. It won us the Cup that year, but I agree... I would love to see what would have happened if the players just bought into him.

Heh, I just asked the details of that story and you were typing them as I asked. Yeah it was the Caps series. They had not won a game as I remember and Mario had a players only meeting and the players went to basically a trap and won the remaining games.

One memory why Caps' fans hate us so much.

 

[Joejosh999]

I believe

They were 1-3 down to the Caps when the change happened and punched Scotty's ticket out of town.

 

[td_ice]

One of the biggest things I want to see Cole, (that you consistently point out, with good reason), is that we improve our puck support. Often times our puck support is so awful, it is infuriating to watch.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We need to get Sid and Geno two legitimate wingers a piece. We need to have a third line that's not stunningly invisible. We need to have a 4th line with size, grit, toughness, and that can skate.

In short, we need to change nearly everything about this team.

 

[td_ice]

I've always wondered if that was urban legend.
Bowman if nothing else would adapt even from shift to shift....

IIRC, I saw it on the NHL rivals show. Pittsburgh and Washington. Bowman claims it was HIS IDEA to start using the trap. That he went to Mario and said, "we gotta change what we are doing, are we are going to be eliminated". But yeah, all the rumors I have ever heard was it was the other way around. That Mario went to Scotty.

I dunno, nothing against Mario, but I am inclined to believe Scotty and his version.

 

[Joejosh999]

I saw an interview w Mario

Where he basically said he, Trots and Francis went to Scotty and insisted in the trap.
It never rang true to me, but whatever. Clearly they thought they didn't need Bowman, and I think history shows who got the last laugh.

The Lemieux Era IMO goes down as Underachievers I think....could've been so much better. And it's so frustrating to see it playing out again ......though in a different way admittedly, with an actual idiot coach.

 

[pistolpete11]

Fast and tenacious, but with an emphasis on defense (i.e. back checking, keeping possession, being smart with the puck). For the rest of this year, I’d go with:

Kunitz-Crosby-Stempniak -->great possession line that can keep the puck down low and eventually get to the net
BB-Malkin-Neal--> BB and Malkin have the potential to make it a possession line and then feed pucks to Neal in the slot
JJ-Sutter/Goc-Sutter/Goc -->Not really fast and tenacious, but solid 2-way line
Megna-Vitale-Gibbons -->incredibly fast and can spark the team unlike the current 4th line where you are just praying they don’t get scored on while they spend the entire shift in their own zone

You need everyone to buy in, though, and that includes Crosby and Malkin. Both of them aren’t as physical as they should be IMO. Not necessarily hitting, but getting body position and forcing turnovers. They did a better job in the second half of the Sunday game, but it was too little too late.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I want the Pens to play a more physical brand of hockey, use their speed to their advantage, play less loose defensively, and actually have proper support for the puck carrier. I want the team to get back to playing the cycle game and keep constant pressure in the offensive zone.

I just want them to emulate the way the team played in 2009, with adjustments made to work with the current roster.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The only team the Pens would match up well against is the Pens.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I voted for combination. It depends on who is on the ice at a given time, and what the situation is. You expect a safer game when the likes of Adams or Glass is on the ice, but you expect a more up-tempo and aggressive game when guys like Vitale, Megna, or Scrabbles is out there.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Play defense and live off the transition. Trap...trap...trap!

The Pens don't have the horses to run and gun and be "tenacious." The problem is the wrong people have to be tenacious on the team. Top stars. They shouldn't have to be the first one initiate or retaliate. Our stars have to do that far to often.

I hope they can pull off the rope a dope.

 

[End of Line]

I would love to play the way we did in 07/08 except for the fact the personnel isn't there unfortunately.

With the way this team is laid out, puck possession.

Kunitz-Crosby-Stempniak
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Jussi-Sutter-Goc
Glass-Vitale-Adams

 

[IcedCapp]

Actually, while I have a preference, I really don't care. I just wish they had an identity. I don't care if it's speed and skill or physicality and toughness, but the Penguins are not hard to play against.

That bugs me

 

[steveg]

Well, I kinda agree. I would be all for trading Sutter then. I was more referring to the point that I would like to see Goc in the bigger role than Sutter, not that I particularly like Sutter as a 4th line option.

I hear you, and I agree that I'd like to see Goc in Sutter's 3C spot, and Sutter traded...