How do you want the Pens to play?

[KIRK]

The 2008 - 2010 team and not just because we won the cup in 2009 - Fast and physical play where Kunitz / Asham / Rupp ETC hit everything that moved and everytime you saw the 3rd and 4th lines come out you knew someone was going to get plastered. Throw in the skill level and that was exciting hockey to watch. Now you see our 4th line come out and its like oh the Orio line from the might ducks is coming to make a hit

You do realize that those teams played three different styles . . . one under Therrien, then one under Bylsma when he took over for Therrien and loosened the reins a bit, and finally one after Bylsma made this team his in the summer of 2009, right?

 

[billybudd]

KC teams pinched a lot more than DB teams, and, as I said, were aggressive UNTIL the other team had established possession. Then, it was the full fall back mode you described.

There's no way. That quote from the player is code for "don't pinch unless there's nobody anywhere near you, which is almost never." That fits my recollection of what I saw. Everybody but Scuderi on the current team pinches way too much for Constantine.

The first guy who pinched with any regularity after Constantine's hiring was Janne Laukkenen, and I'm not sure he didn't come in with Herb Brooks.

This is why Constantine was finding D with big shots and nothing else in the pits of hockey hell. Serowik, Ignatjev, Werenka...these weren't Patrick's guys, Constantine specifically requested them because they had bombs and knew not to try and make plays in risky zones.

Hell, Constantine once made a snarky quote to the newspaper after Kovalev deked someone for a goal that he should have just shot to begin with. This may have even been after a Penalty shot. Or maybe a breakaway. I forget. I was floored by the quote in the situation so much that I vaguely remember it 15 years later.

Of all Penguin teams I've ever seen, his were the least interested in prolonged cycles and pinching by a large margin. He was conservative even compared to Lemaire.

Edit:

Now, what Constantine DID have his D do, usually on special teams, every once in a while. Not often, maybe twice a game, he'd have a D drop all the way to the dot if it looked like one of the playmaking type guys had clean possession and a lane to the center. Like, the guy would get Karlsson close to the net as a drive by passing option.

But I'm at least 70% this was only on special teams.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Right now, we should be using our injuries as an opportunity to work on trapping things up. Practice that for the playoffs. As our talent returns, go back to being aggressive.

If this team can't do both then we're doomed.

and cut into our whiffle ball and mustache boy recess time... BLASPHEMY!

 

[tinkezione]

In my mind we'd need to play a bit of both. Fast and tenacious is absolutely the more favourable playstyle looking at the talent and skill level our roster has, and this was really blooming around the latest Cup era, when we had also serious sandpaper to make the forecheck feel really punishing for the opponents. However, as playoffs roll in, refs' whistles go into their pockets and everything turns a bit more into a clutching-grabbing waiting game and at that point a lot of patience is needed for the breaks the more skilled guys will cash in. We have good guys for quick transition, so option #2 will work as well, but the dude behind the bench should know when to go which way. As soon as the opponents can 100% accurately predict what's up next, we're done and done.

The problem is that we're more or less just running and gunning, without any sorts of strategy to maintain puck possession. Like, at all. (I'm not the greatest fan of advanced statistics because those can be relied too much on, ignoring everything else, but in smaller chunks they can be used to verify the eye test - like someone pointed out, our Fenwick Close post Olympic break is absolutely abysmal.) And to top that, we play all sorts of tools that have zero capability for any kind of puck possession, so continuing to ice lines like we saw over the weekend, things are not bound to take any more favourable direction.

Our kings can win games here and there single-handedly, but team-wise we're going down, hard.

 

[vikingGoalie]

i just don't know what happened behind closed doors. But a Dan Blysma coached team all the way to 2011 which is years post therrien was aggressive as hell.
On the boards here most people were getting mad about the grind the f'ers down approach to hockey that Dan had going.

Oh how the grass is greener. The fall of 2011 we had probably our best team plan for playoffs going. We made life living hell for other teams 2009-2011. Then the organization decided that predatory hits, rightly so, have no place in the league. That we would be a kindler, gentler hockey team. Fast forward to now. We are SOFF.

Same coach, but type of player, the way we play is different now. A lot of this has to be coming from above our head coaches level in the organization. Not giving Dan-0 a free pass for some of his baffling coaching decisions. Just saying this was an organizational shift to play entertaining get your stars awards hockey. Which coincidentially has had zero success in the playoffs.

who knows maybe a blind squirrel will find a nut in the playoffs this year, but I doubt it...

 

[gordie]

4.) Bylsma-Free

 

[Veryparipari]

The current team really needs depth in the squad .. and pls rid DB

 

[MtlPenFan]

i just don't know what happened behind closed doors. But a Dan Blysma coached team all the way to 2011 which is years post therrien was aggressive as hell.
On the boards here most people were getting mad about the grind the f'ers down approach to hockey that Dan had going.

Oh how the grass is greener. The fall of 2011 we had probably our best team plan for playoffs going. We made life living hell for other teams 2009-2011. Then the organization decided that predatory hits, rightly so, have no place in the league. That we would be a kindler, gentler hockey team. Fast forward to now. We are SOFF.

Same coach, but type of player, the way we play is different now. A lot of this has to be coming from above our head coaches level in the organization. Not giving Dan-0 a free pass for some of his baffling coaching decisions. Just saying this was an organizational shift to play entertaining get your stars awards hockey. Which coincidentially has had zero success in the playoffs.

who knows maybe a blind squirrel will find a nut in the playoffs this year, but I doubt it...

I agree with pretty much all of that.

I remember "UnderratedBrooks" complaining incessantly that "All we do is keep possession in the opposing zone but it doesn't lead to goals!!!"

He wasn't the only one, and it always puzzled me how people could whine about out shooting teams 2 to 1 and keeping possession in the offensive zone for 70% of the game.

No, I didn't like that Team Canada was "only" winning games by a goal, but sometimes that's how things go. I certainly enjoyed the fact that the ice was tilted in one direction though. That lends to winning a lot more often than it lends to losing.

I don't think the organization shifted strategy though, and that's the one thing I disagree with. I just think that they started signing players who were incapable of playing that type of game. I mean all you have to do is listen to the dummy tell Pierre that he wants to be a grinding team to know that the mindset certainly hasn't changed. What makes it funnier is that I'm sure the man is truly puzzled by the fact that Sutter, Glass, Adams, Pyatt can't maintain possession for more than 2 seconds and wonders why we're losing games.

 

[themethod7]

I don't think the organization shifted strategy though, and that's the one thing I disagree with. I just think that they started signing players who were incapable of playing that type of game. I mean all you have to do is listen to the dummy tell Pierre that he wants to be a grinding team to know that the mindset certainly hasn't changed. What makes it funnier is that I'm sure the man is truly puzzled by the fact that Sutter, Glass, Adams, Pyatt can't maintain possession for more than 2 seconds and wonders why we're losing games.

I think between the Islanders game, the Crosby injuries, and the fallout from the Cooke incident(s), there was a definitely shift in mentality among the Pens brass. You don't just go from employing guys like Roberts, Cooke, Ruutu, Talbot, Asham, and Rupp to guys like Jokinen, Sutter, Sullivan, Gibbons, and Megna for no reason. If Shero wanted to, he could have signed players capable of playing that type of game - he passed on the likes of Asham, Konopka, Prust, Tootoo, etc. - not saying any or all of them would have been a good fit, but those types of people were available, so I'm not sure how getting noticeably smaller/softer was anything other than a conscious decision from the guys running the show.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think between the Islanders game, the Crosby injuries, and the fallout from the Cooke incident(s), there was a definitely shift in mentality among the Pens brass. You don't just go from employing guys like Roberts, Cooke, Ruutu, Talbot, Asham, and Rupp to guys like Jokinen, Sutter, Sullivan, Gibbons, and Megna for no reason. If Shero wanted to, he could have signed players capable of playing that type of game - he passed on the likes of Asham, Konopka, Prust, Tootoo, etc. - not saying any or all of them would have been a good fit, but those types of people were available, so I'm not sure how getting noticeably smaller/softer was anything other than a conscious decision from the guys running the show.

The bolded is wrong. We didn't go from Roberts, Cooke, Ruutu, etc to Megna and Gibbons. We aren't even going to be playing Megna and Gibbons when healthy. Sullivan and Jokinen were playing predominately top 6 minutes. Just not comparable. We went from Roberts and co. to Glass, Adams, Pyatt

 

[MtlPenFan]

I think between the Islanders game, the Crosby injuries, and the fallout from the Cooke incident(s), there was a definitely shift in mentality among the Pens brass. You don't just go from employing guys like Roberts, Cooke, Ruutu, Talbot, Asham, and Rupp to guys like Jokinen, Sutter, Sullivan, Gibbons, and Megna for no reason. If Shero wanted to, he could have signed players capable of playing that type of game - he passed on the likes of Asham, Konopka, Prust, Tootoo, etc. - not saying any or all of them would have been a good fit, but those types of people were available, so I'm not sure how getting noticeably smaller/softer was anything other than a conscious decision from the guys running the show.

Oh, I agree in therms of physical players and agitators. I'm just talking about guys who can actually skate and keep possession of the puck along the boards.

 

[themethod7]

The bolded is wrong. We didn't go from Roberts, Cooke, Ruutu, etc to Megna and Gibbons. We aren't even going to be playing Megna and Gibbons when healthy. Sullivan and Jokinen are playing top 6 minutes. Just not comparable. We went from Roberts and co. to Glass, Adams, Pyatt

Pick whoever you want, the point is we don't have *one* guy on our roster that can do what Roberts, Cooke, Asham, or Rupp did, let alone a whole 3rd or 4th line of them.

 

[Shady Machine]

Pick whoever you want, the point is we don't have *one* guy on our roster that can do what Roberts, Cooke, Asham, or Rupp did, let alone a whole 3rd or 4th line of them.

Agreed.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'd love to see a return of the team that bullied the rest of the league, instead of being the team that gets bullied by the rest of the league.

 

[sf expat71]

The bolded is wrong. We didn't go from Roberts, Cooke, Ruutu, etc to Megna and Gibbons. We aren't even going to be playing Megna and Gibbons when healthy. Sullivan and Jokinen were playing predominately top 6 minutes. Just not comparable. We went from Roberts and co. to Glass, Adams, Pyatt

So in other words, we went to crap. Identity or not, I'd still rather go from Roberts to Megna rather than Adams, at least one is a legit NHLer.

 

[Shady Machine]

So in other words, we went to crap. Identity or not, I'd still rather go from Roberts to Megna rather than Adams, at least one is a legit NHLer.

Yes exactly. My point was that it's not like Shero intentionally signed Megna and Gibbons because he wanted them to be bottom 6 players to replace the Asham's, Rupp's, Robert's of the world. The 2 situations were not related. He signed them to be promising depth players within the organization. Glass and Adams were clearly signed and retained, in Adams case, to be 4th liners.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

I just want to go back to controlling the pace of games and seeing this team with some energy. Establish an aggressive forecheck, force the other team to make mistakes, play a simple, sound defensive style of man to man hockey. Move back to a 1-2-2 and capitalize on turnovers when we need to play D. Establish a strong cycle down low and just wear out the other team's defense. Crash the net for goals for once. We have the right core of players to do this, we just need to rid ourselves of all of the baggage.

Say what you want about the PK, but we need some players with speed who are an offensive threat. I love watching a PK that can put a PP unit on its heals and create doubt. That really creates a huge difference in momentum. The Powerplay needs more movement.

Kunitz Crosby Stempniak
Bennett Malkin Neal
??? Goc Dupuis
Megna Vitale ???

Letang-Martin
Maatta-Niskanen
Despres-Bortuzzo
Engelland

Drop Orpik, Glass, Adams
Trade Scuderi, Sutter

Add two 3rd liners with some size and speed, or go for Sid's top line winger, move Bennett to the 3rd and add one 3rd line winger.

Really, this team would be much improved with just increased puck support. That would create better cycles down low, less time in the Dzone, and increase puck possession.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

I want them to play the counter to whatever team they are playing. If a team is suffocating the neutral zone, I want them to play dump and chase. If a team wants to run and gun against them, then I want them to stretch pass. If our players are getting jerked around, I want players to stand up for them. That is the problem with sports, you can't have a philosophy or "game" to get to . Every single game is different. If you refuse to adapt, you won't win a championship.

 

[KIRK]

I want them to play the counter to whatever team they are playing. If a team is suffocating the neutral zone, I want them to play dump and chase. If a team wants to run and gun against them, then I want them to stretch pass. If our players are getting jerked around, I want players to stand up for them. That is the problem with sports, you can't have a philosophy or "game" to get to . Every single game is different. If you refuse to adapt, you won't win a championship.

So, you'd like them to mix it up to put players in the best possible position to succeed and to be less predictable to the opposition.

I hadn't realized that you were new to watching Bylsma hockey.

EDIT: I do agree, by the way, I just think this subject is tabled until Bylsma is put through the tables.

 

[iFishyHD]

Fast and Tenacious

I like that style of play and I think we have the right guys for it, the problem is they are not playing on a consistent basis.

I agree. Sid, Geno, Neal, and Kunitz easily have the skill to do it. These guys are the most consistent anyway.Not to mention some that could slide into this easily.

The only problem is that we have to rely on Fluery and the defense to much. If Fluery can be as solid in the playoffs as what he is in the regular season then that's a start. Then we have to worry about guys like Orpik and Scuds getting absolutely burned on the back end.

Coach 2/Style 2 reminds me of Therrien to much, so easily no.

Coach 3/Style 3 is Bylsma. I don't mind it but Bylsma isn't the coach for us anyway.

 

[Shady Machine]

I want them to play the counter to whatever team they are playing. If a team is suffocating the neutral zone, I want them to play dump and chase. If a team wants to run and gun against them, then I want them to stretch pass. If our players are getting jerked around, I want players to stand up for them. That is the problem with sports, you can't have a philosophy or "game" to get to . Every single game is different. If you refuse to adapt, you won't win a championship.

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time, you can't let another team dictate HOW you are going to play. There's a balance there. Bylsma is too stubborn and believes if the Pens just keep trying to get to their game, they will break through. You, on the other hand, seem to be indicating that the Pens should change their game to fit the game the opponent is playing.

I think you throw in some wrinkles for each team, but at the end of the day, the team has to have an identity. The Pens don't really seem to have one, despite the "get to your game" slogan.

 

[wolffy66]

I do like the combination of the two styles honestly. Fast and tenacious but a line that can punish the other team would be nice.

But more than that what I would like is the Pens to be able to handle these tough games with more composure.

If they start getting really aggressively hit they tend to want to morph into flyers.

If the other team starts engaging after the whistle they tend to respond by taking the dumbest penalties and just generally getting off their game.

If they face a hot goalie a pattern I notice is the Pens getting a ton of great scoring chances but failing to score. But then at some point they will lose it and get blown out instead of just accepting that the game is gonna be a tight one and that one goal might win it.

Its like they dominate or lose their cool.

 

[BHD]

Option #1. It best suites the personnel up front.

 

[BHD]

The more I see highlights of the Blue Jackets, the more I want Richards as coach.