How do you view the last 7 seasons as a Sens fan?

[danielpalfredsson]

Depending on your definition of success, they've been more successful than unsuccessful, and managed to find themselves an elite franchise player without having to tank.

At some point, you want to see a deep run, but I would say that making the playoffs means your team was successful. Roughly half the teams in the league get to make the playoffs. In a 30 team league, making the playoffs a majority of the time is very hard. The odds of a team making it to the cup finals, let along winning a cup are slim. If you can't consider a playoff appearance a successful season, than odds are, no matter who you cheer for, you'll almost always be disappointed.

For every Kings, Blackhawks, or Bruins who get multiple shots at the cup, or wins, there are just as many power house teams that either don't make it to the cup finals, or do make it, lose, and don't get there again.

Also consider that after losing in 1993, it took the Kings roughly 20 years to make the finals again. Same deal with the Blackhawks in 1992, and the Bruins in 1990.

 

[Legend Killer]

For the most part...Disappointing...

Hopefully the next 7 years are much more successful, but there are no guarantees in Pro Sports...

 

[Stylizer1]

We built through the draft in the early 90's and became one of the best teams in the league. With the roster we have now I don't see that same level of quality that makes our future look bright.

We didn't tank in the beginning, we just sucked. From that we got the key pieces to be great. Over the last 5 seasons we could have acquired the picks to build for the future but management probably though it would be easier to tinker than too to go all out and rebuild.

 

[HavlatMach9]

below average

 

[ColinM]

I saw the team as decisively average, much like the results on the ice.

I'm sure its possible to get back to the 2002-2007 status but its going to take some luck with respect to how your own players turn out, much like the LA Kings of recent years.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Mixed. We've done nicely in the draft, we've had a lot of high-scoring teams, and excitement. A lot of fun teams & hockey to watch,

At the same time, there's been a lot of choking. Choke in the playoffs, choke constantly against the Leafs, messing up in afternoon and any (rare) HNIC games.

Overall, a mixed bag.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

We built through the draft in the early 90's and became one of the best teams in the league. With the roster we have now I don't see that same level of quality that makes our future look bright.

We didn't tank in the beginning, we just sucked. From that we got the key pieces to be great. Over the last 5 seasons we could have acquired the picks to build for the future but management probably though it would be easier to tinker than too to go all out and rebuild.

You know...our best players from that era, they weren't high draft picks

Alfredsson - 6th round
Hossa - 12th overall
Martin Havlat - 26th overall
Jason Spezza - acquired via trade
Vermette & Fisher - both 2nd round picks

Maybe...just maybe...we let some of our high picks like Zbad, Lazar and Ceci hit their peaks before we declare this era a bust. We already have a generational player on this team in Karlsson and a 3rd overall in Turris and a 2nd overall in Ryan.

I swear the emo on these boards is reaching epic levels.

 

[Upgrayedd]

The reasons you listed don't make sense as they were still there 15 years ago. We also ranked probably the same in payroll.

Imo all the factors I listed have changed quite dramatically in relation to our franchise over the last 10 years or so. Hope im wrong though

 

[Senscore]

These will not be fondly remembered years in Senators history.

 

[Sensinitis]

Slightly painful, but necessary.

 

[Back in Black]

How do you view the last 7 seaons as a Sens fan?

What are 7 seaons?????????

 

[Stylizer1]

You know...our best players from that era, they weren't high draft picks

Alfredsson - 6th round
Hossa - 12th overall
Martin Havlat - 26th overall
Jason Spezza - acquired via trade
Vermette & Fisher - both 2nd round picks

Maybe...just maybe...we let some of our high picks like Zbad, Lazar and Ceci hit their peaks before we declare this era a bust. We already have a generational player on this team in Karlsson and a 3rd overall in Turris and a 2nd overall in Ryan.

I swear the emo on these boards is reaching epic levels.

Funny, we got to the playoffs with 5 top 5 draft picks. They laid the foundation for the following years. A mix of high draft picks, good coaching, and veterans. After becoming a good team we drafted lower and found better players.

Daigle
Bonk
Redden
Phillips
Yashin


We don't have those top picks to build around.

 

[Stylizer1]

What are 7 seaons?????????

Sorry Simmer.

 

[aragorn]

Disappointing, I think most were expecting the Sens to have won a cup by now after 20 yrs or so, if not more than one. Having another opwner with financial problems doesn't bode well for the future either. Hopefully, he sells the team or finds some money on which to spend on this team or Ottawa. Ottawa could have had a decent team this yr if they would have kept Spezza & re-signed Michalek & Hemsky. Then picked up Dan Boyle as a UFA instead of re-signing Phillips & would still have been under the cap with a pretty good team. Melnyk has to go.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

We built through the draft in the early 90's and became one of the best teams in the league. With the roster we have now I don't see that same level of quality that makes our future look bright.

We didn't tank in the beginning, we just sucked. From that we got the key pieces to be great. Over the last 5 seasons we could have acquired the picks to build for the future but management probably though it would be easier to tinker than too to go all out and rebuild.

Tanking seems over rated in this section. The Senators of the 90's got a lot of key pieces later in the draft, and two of their first overall picks (Bonk and Phillips) were pretty weak by the standards of what people seem to imply teams get in exchange for tanking.

Ottawa really only got two superstar calibre first overall type players from tanking. That would be Yashin, and Redden (2nd overall). Yashin was then swapped for Spezza, who was also a superstar calibre first/second overall guy.

Just to name a few that Ottawa built around in the late 99-05 period, Alfredsson, Chara (Via trade but originally a 2nd rounder), Hossa, Havlat, Fisher, and Volchenkov weren't players teams had to tank to acquire.

Funny, we got to the playoffs with 5 top 5 draft picks. They laid the foundation for the following years. A mix of high draft picks, good coaching, and veterans. After becoming a good team we drafted lower and found better players.

Daigle
Bonk
Redden
Phillips
Yashin


We don't have those top picks to build around.

If anything, Ottawa is a case against tanking building a franchise.

They got where they were in spite of having awful luck with 1st overall picks. They instead drafted exceptionally well in the mid to late first round and beyond.

Yashin and Redden are the only two on that list who are actual first overall calibre superstars. Bonk and Phillips are fine players, but were and are not the types of players referred to when posters romanticize tanking. Daigle was a bust who was gone with no real return by the time the Senators were ready to compete.

 

[Stylizer1]

Tanking seems over rated in this section. The Senators of the 90's got a lot of key pieces later in the draft, and two of their first overall picks (Bonk and Phillips) were pretty weak by the standards of what people seem to imply teams get in exchange for tanking.

Ottawa really only got two superstar calibre first overall type players from tanking. That would be Yashin, and Redden (2nd overall). Yashin was then swapped for Spezza, who was also a superstar calibre first/second overall guy.

Just to name a few that Ottawa built around in the late 99-05 period, Alfredsson, Chara (Via trade but originally a 2nd rounder), Hossa, Havlat, Fisher, and Volchenkov weren't players teams had to tank to acquire.

Also if Ottawa was in tank mode during the 1996 - 2000 drafts we could have ended up with Thorton, Marleau, Lecavalier, a Sedin, or who ever. Good scouting got us those players with lower picks because we were a good team by that point.



If anything, Ottawa is a case against tanking building a franchise.

They got where they were in spite of having awful luck with 1st overall picks. They instead drafted exceptionally well in the mid to late first round and beyond.

Yashin and Redden are the only two on that list who are actual first overall calibre superstars. Bonk and Phillips are fine players, but were and are not the types of players referred to when posters romanticize tanking. Daigle was a bust who was gone with no real return by the time the Senators were ready to compete.

It doesn't change the fact that the sens became a playoff team without Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, vermette, and Fisher. Yashin was a top player in the league and Redden was a good dman out the gate. Diagle was a decent winger just not a franshise player. Top 6 yes.

Finishing last for those years got us the players to go forward with. If anything Yashin was the superstar that got us to the next level.

 

[cage]

Mediocre. It's been a forgettable 7 years with some very depressing lows (Heatley, Alfie, Spezza, no longer being a top team). EK is really the lone highlight. 2012 and 2013 were fun seasons too

 

[The Waffler]

Mediocrity is the word I would use to describe that time frame.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yeah the aftermath of the Cup Run from 2007-2008 to 2010-2011 were low points but let's not act like the team was awful, hell I thought the team was a blast to watch in Clouston's final season once we traded away Fisher and Kelly and called up Greening and Condra: the team played good, hard-nosed hockey and upset some great teams (the Devils were on FIRE and we stopped them cold in their tracks) but we got screwed by awful goaltending.

2011-2012 and 2012-2013 were seasons were the franchise took some serious steps in recapturing some of it's former glory and now that we've had one bad season a lot of seem to act like our team hasn't had it's fair share of success.

I'm also pretty bummed about the team's short-term future right now (it should be said that the outlook could change drastically if the youth on the backend shows up next year) but that doesn't mean the Ottawa Senators haven't given me plenty to cheer for over the last 7 years of my life.

 

[Laphroaig]

Frustrating. There were opportunities for lottery draft picks but the team always managed to win a bunch of meaningless late season games and wound up drafting second tier talent.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

It doesn't change the fact that the sens became a playoff team without Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, vermette, and Fisher. Yashin was a top player in the league and Redden was a good dman out the gate. Diagle was a decent winger just not a franshise player. Top 6 yes.

Finishing last for those years got us the players to go forward with. If anything Yashin was the superstar that got us to the next level.

The Senators are a borderline playoff team now without those high picks. I have no idea what your point is because, sure they were a playoff team with Bonk, Yashin and Daigle but they weren't a real contender without the contributions of Spezza, Hossa, and Alfredsson. The contribution of those "high picks" were negligible at best on the elite Senator teams of the 2000s.

Daigle, Bonk and Phillips weren't why the Senators were elite. Dumping Yashin for Spezza was the figurative move that really pushed the Sens to the top.

 

[Sensinitis]

Turris, Zibanejad, Karlsson, Lehner are four reasons to be optimistic for the future.

That's without mentioning Ryan, Cowen, Stone, Lazar, Ceci who are more uncertain but all look promising.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think Phillips was huge part of our team in our epic years

So was Volchenkov but Chris Phillips was a beast for us from 2002 to 2008ish

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Also if Ottawa was in tank mode during the 1996 - 2000 drafts we could have ended up with Thorton, Marleau, Lecavalier, a Sedin, or who ever. Good scouting got us those players with lower picks because we were a good team by that point.

It doesn't change the fact that the sens became a playoff team without Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, vermette, and Fisher. Yashin was a top player in the league and Redden was a good dman out the gate. Diagle was a decent winger just not a franshise player. Top 6 yes.

Finishing last for those years got us the players to go forward with. If anything Yashin was the superstar that got us to the next level.

Becoming a 7th/8th place team off of years of tanking does nothing to advocate for it as a strategy. Ottawa became at one point the best team in the league, and a multi-year cup contender through smart drafting much more than they did through tanking.

As far as the concept that Ottawa could have gotten Thornton or Lecavalier, or one of the Sedins had they tanked, that is asinine for a few reasons.

1) They were a playoff team, to tank and get 1st/2nd overall from 97-00 they'd have to trade away any good players they already had like Yashin, Redden, and Alfredsson. That would have been counter productive and would have made no sense. "We could try to win with the superstars we already have....or we could trade the superstars in order to sabotage our team.....and get more guys....who might be superstars". Tanking only works when your team stinks, and you decide to get rid of the final few band aids that are keeping it together, ala Buffalo with Vanek, Ott, and Miller who they traded as opposed to attempting to extend.

2) My entire point is that Ottawa still got superstars or players comparable to their tank picks in some of those drafts despite not tanking. First it's important to note, it wasn't the Sedins who were taken first in one of those drafts mentioned.....it was PATRIK STEFAN. That was the year Ottawa selected Havlat. Ottawa did tank in 1996.....and got Chris Phillips. Those years you mentioned, Ottawa got Fisher, Hossa, Havlat, and Volchenkov without having to trade away all their stars and tank.

If you compare every "tank" pick Ottawa ever had to the equivalent amount of their best picks every that they got outside of the top 10. The non-tank list is actually better.

We'll consider Yashin/Spezza a single entity, since they were pretty much swapped for one another. Ottawa didn't really tank to get Spezza, but the ability to draft him was earned by how valuable Yashin was, who was an Ottawa tank pick....hopefully that makes sense.

Yashin, Daigle, Bonk, Phillips, Redden

compared to their arguably best 5 non-tank picks (not counting guys taken in the top 10)

Alfredsson, Karlsson, Hossa, Havlat, Fisher (although, there are probably others who might throw in a different name as the fifth).

As far as claiming Ottawa doesn't have the high draft pick guys to build around now, they actually do.

Yashin, Daigle, Bonk, Phillips, Redden
compared to
Turris (3rd), Zibanejad (6th), Karlsson (15th, but it's fair to say he'd go at least 3rd if that draft were re-done today), Ryan (2nd, only a few years older than Yashin was during 97-00), Cowen (8th)

That is 1 elite player, 1 first line forward, 2 second line forwards, and Jared Cowen.

 

[dan1el]

Not good, and there are tough times ahead unless Murray does good things this summer. It is 100% necessary that we get more than Berglund, Rattie, and the 21st pick for Spezza. And it is equally important that we don't let Ryan walk for nothing next year.

If that's all the value we can get for Spezza, move Ryan and Methot too if it looks like he'll walk now, suck next year, draft McDavid if we're that bad, but I doubt we'd be even then. Draft Konecny/Hanifin/Kylington/Zacha.... use whatever we can move for more 2015 picks. Do a proper rebuild. We have two centers, and top defender, and a top goalie, that's the skeleton for a succesful team right there, so it's not like we're totally screwed, but we will be if Murray doesn't make the right choices in the coming weeks.

The other option is that Ryan, Methot, Anderson play us right out of the lottery this year and then walk, and we're screwed for the next 4-5 years as a fringe playoff team while our core either leaves or plays away they're prime on a garbage team.

If we can get a real top 6 winger who's young with this deal, ink Ryan long-term, we'll be a good team. Turris and Zibanejad will be a very strong 1-2 punch, similar to Krejci-Bergeron I think. I don't see any future for them if we can give them some good wingers other than 65+ point 30-goal scorers who are defensively responsible. If Karlsson gets back to 100% and rounds out the holes in his game (which were few and far between in his few games during the short season) we have 24-year old perennial Norris contender. And this may be wishful thinking, but Robin Lehner is right about at the same spot Rask was at that stage in their careers. If Lehner turns out to be close the player Rask is, I'll be overjoyed.

Honestly, we can't pretend like we don't have the resources to be contender, but it's now that's going to make the difference between perennial mediocrity or contention. Time to insulate the core with young, responsible surroundings, or blow it up and wait a few years. I'm satisfied with whichever Murray decides, but if he decides to do something half-assed, gets scraps for our star, then lets half the good players on our team walk, we're *****ed. For a while.