How do you, GM of the San Jose Sharks, fix the Sharks?

[Barrie22]

Right now Minn goal diff is 0 and they have the same amount of losses as the Sharks. Sharks are about to enter the easier part of the schedule that Minn fattened up on at the beginning of the season. Reality is they're pretty close in terms of overall strength of team, they just have different strengths and weaknesses. Sharks have better offensive players on avg, and Minn has a better defensive system. Well, at least Minns is more practiced in their system. We don't yet know what the end result of the Sharks defensive system looks like. This idea that Minn is somehow vastly superior is just not a realistic view of their rosters or their results. Both games between the two teams were games Minn should have lost. They essentially were lucky to win one of them. We'll see how it goes from here on out.

Minny is nearly 1/3rd of the way to the +30 goal differential, sharks today are -9.

They are already 5 regulation wins better.

Minny is scoring at a 2.70 goals per game, sharks at a 2.50 goals per game. At those paces minny will end with 151 goals, sharks with 140 goals for.

Minny is allowing 2.70 goals against per game, sharks are at 3.88. In 3 more games minny has allowed 1 less goal then the sharks have.

The only thing the sharks do that is better then the wild is score on the power play. Wild at 7.1% (so we can only assume that the wilds offense will only get better once that gets normalized), sharks at 17.7%.

At the current paces, minny is going to finish with 61 points. Sharks with 42 points.

Can talk about on paper all you want, but minny has actually shown this year and last year they are much better then the sharks.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

I've no interest in being GM. But I would say that - if we really want things fixed - the fans should greenlight their franchise loudly, for a full rebuild with a vocal commitment to fully support the team throughout. i.e. Bums on seats, jerseys etc.

I remember cheering for the boys when we went 11-71-2 but admittedly living over the Pond, I hadn't bought a season ticket, so it's easy for me to say. I wonder how many would be prepared to stick around with a record like that now?

IMO, it's pretty much the only way to fix things without an ongoing band aid approach which leaves us in the lower reaches of the league for a long while. Some of those contracts are hideous anchors...

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Right now Minn goal diff is 0 and they have the same amount of losses as the Sharks. Sharks are about to enter the easier part of the schedule that Minn fattened up on at the beginning of the season. Reality is they're pretty close in terms of overall strength of team, they just have different strengths and weaknesses. Sharks have better offensive players on avg, and Minn has a better defensive system. Well, at least Minns is more practiced in their system. We don't yet know what the end result of the Sharks defensive system looks like. This idea that Minn is somehow vastly superior is just not a realistic view of their rosters or their results. Both games between the two teams were games Minn should have lost. They essentially were lucky to win one of them. We'll see how it goes from here on out.

Yes, their goal differential is indeed 0. That's a lot better than San Jose's goal differential of -11. The discrepancy between the two, through just 19 total games played between them, supports the conclusion that Minnesota is the far superior team.

Also, Minnesota ranked 12th in goals per game last season with 3.16. San Jose ranked 27th with 2.57. Pretty wild that the Wild managed to do that (and have managed to score more this season as well) with inferior offensive players on average!

A reverse question would be: how can you be so confident that Minnesota is "far superior" to the Sharks? They split their series, and MIN sits 6 pts ahead while the Sharks have 3 games in hand, all against bad teams. The Sharks have also exclusively played playoff/in teams while the Wild have played 8 of their 11 games against teams that missed the playoffs. If the Sharks win their next 3 games against, which is doable, then both teams would be 6-5-0 through 11 with the Sharks having a harder schedule.

how have the "proven they are the far superior team" when the sample size is small and the only directly comparable is a 1-1 head-to-head record?

For the record, I think right now Minnesota is better than the Sharks, but i'm also of the belief that the Sharks have had the hardest start to the season of any team and that can skew perception of their actually ability. Point being, it's too early to make any grand statements.

Before the season started I said the same exact thing. It was clear based on what these teams had done last year and how they had tweaked their rosters that barring any unforeseen circumstances, Minnesota would be the far superior team and nothing I've seen has changed my opinion.

Minnesota has a goal differential of 0 and a 5-on-5 xGF% of 56.78%.

San Jose has a goal differential of -11 and a 5-on-5 xGF% 41.97%.

Minnesota dominated San Jose head-to-head in both of the games they played. San Jose won one because Minnesota's goalie choked. It happens.

BTW, I'm still waiting on an answer from both of you: How much better than SJ does Minnesota have to be by season's end for you to concede that you were wrong, and that Minnesota is the far superior team? If they finish 10 points or +30 goal differential ahead of San Jose, is that enough? How about 15 points and +50 goal differential? Or, will any measure of blatant superiority just be met with excuses and insistence that the Sharks are somehow better because feelings>facts?

 

[hohosaregood]

Before we even talk about being better than Minnesota, we should discuss if we're even better than LA or Anaheim. Hell, we should call into question whether or not we're better than Ottawa or Detroit. I'm inclined to say that the only reason why any of their metrics are worse than ours is because they haven't had the chance to play against us yet.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Minny is nearly 1/3rd of the way to the +30 goal differential, sharks today are -9.

They are already 5 regulation wins better.

Minny is scoring at a 2.70 goals per game, sharks at a 2.50 goals per game. At those paces minny will end with 151 goals, sharks with 140 goals for.

Minny is allowing 2.70 goals against per game, sharks are at 3.88. In 3 more games minny has allowed 1 less goal then the sharks have.

The only thing the sharks do that is better then the wild is score on the power play. Wild at 7.1% (so we can only assume that the wilds offense will only get better once that gets normalized), sharks at 17.7%.

At the current paces, minny is going to finish with 61 points. Sharks with 42 points.

Can talk about on paper all you want, but minny has actually shown this year and last year they are much better then the sharks.

Once again you're ignoring the fact that Minn played 6 of the games where they guilt up those numbers against the ducks and Kings. Until it's an apples to apples comparison you really can't claim Minn's superiority.

Yes, their goal differential is indeed 0. That's a lot better than San Jose's goal differential of -11. The discrepancy between the two, through just 19 total games played between them, supports the conclusion that Minnesota is the far superior team.

Also, Minnesota ranked 12th in goals per game last season with 3.16. San Jose ranked 27th with 2.57. Pretty wild that the Wild managed to do that (and have managed to score more this season as well) with inferior offensive players on average!



Before the season started I said the same exact thing. It was clear based on what these teams had done last year and how they had tweaked their rosters that barring any unforeseen circumstances, Minnesota would be the far superior team and nothing I've seen has changed my opinion.

Minnesota has a goal differential of 0 and a 5-on-5 xGF% of 56.78%.

San Jose has a goal differential of -11 and a 5-on-5 xGF% 41.97%.

Minnesota dominated San Jose head-to-head in both of the games they played. San Jose won one because Minnesota's goalie choked. It happens.

BTW, I'm still waiting on an answer from both of you: How much better than SJ does Minnesota have to be by season's end for you to concede that you were wrong, and that Minnesota is the far superior team? If they finish 10 points or +30 goal differential ahead of San Jose, is that enough? How about 15 points and +50 goal differential? Or, will any measure of blatant superiority just be met with excuses and insistence that the Sharks are somehow better because feelings>facts?

See answer above. None of your stats mean a whole lot until they've at least faced the same competition, the same number of games. Even then you're not going to have a definitive answer until closer to the end of the season. All teams facing each other once or twice can only give you a current trend. And of course this data will get skewed for teams that get to face the Avs without Mackinnon. They're still a great team but they aren't white the same level of awesome without one of the top 2 or 3 players in the league (IMO). Also my comment about the Sharks having better offensive players was about this season. DOn't manipulate it to try and find a win. We've already hashed thru their problems offensively last season. Even you have admitted previously that they lost their leading scorer 3 times. All 3 which turned out to be long term injuries. That has a dramatic effect on offensive output.

As far as the "how much better question". From your characterization they're going to need to be 20 point better not 10. Minn only won 6 more games last season and finished 10th in the conference, 21st in the NHL. The goal differential kinda matters but I don't know where you're getting your numbers on that. Do you mean they're going to score 30 goals more than the Sharks or that their goal differential will be +30? Minn scored 38 more goals last season while the Sharks endured the worst offensive season I've seen in probably more than a decade while losing their leading scorer 3 different times to long term injury, locker room problems, coaching disarray etc, etc, etc. I'll be amazed if Minn scores more goals than the Sharks. I'll easily concede that Minn will give up less goals but there's just no way, barring an injury run like last season, that Minn scores more goals than the Sharks this season. From everything I've seen, it's coming, they're just still getting acclimated to the new system. Obviously you don't have to believe me. We'll can revisit this at the end of the season and award trophies if you want.

 

[Barrie22]

Once again you're ignoring the fact that Minn played 6 of the games where they guilt up those numbers against the ducks and Kings. Until it's an apples to apples comparison you really can't claim Minn's superiority.

See answer above. None of your stats mean a whole lot until they've at least faced the same competition, the same number of games. Even then you're not going to have a definitive answer until closer to the end of the season. All teams facing each other once or twice can only give you a current trend. And of course this data will get skewed for teams that get to face the Avs without Mackinnon. They're still a great team but they aren't white the same level of awesome without one of the top 2 or 3 players in the league (IMO).

So convenient that you will now not count the wild games vs colorado because makinnon is hurt. So yeah there will be zero chance for you to change your mind. The sharks could end the season 50 points back of minny and it would be oh the sharks need more time, the wild got lucky because they got to face teams that were injured.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

So convenient that you will now not count the wild games vs colorado because makinnon is hurt. So yeah there will be zero chance for you to change your mind. The sharks could end the season 50 points back of minny and it would be oh the sharks need more time, the wild got lucky because they got to face teams that were injured.

I thought he played the games against Minn? Which game was he injured? If he missed one, it didn't matter, Minn still lost.

I find it interesting your need to portray me that way. Minn already lost convincingly to the Sharks while they frankly were lucky to get their win against the Sharks. It's also funny that you guys are apparently so incensed simply because I think the Sharks make the playoffs. Does it really upset your desire for the team to tank that much? I mean dude cmon, I've even said I prefer they do shitty and get a high pick this season. This is the season to just totally flush games down the toilet. No fans, probably an asterisks for whoever wins the cup especially if a team loses a star or 3 to covid protocol.

 

[Barrie22]

I thought he played the games against Minn? Which game was he injured? If he missed one, it didn't matter, Minn still lost.

I find it interesting your need to portray me that way. Minn already lost convincingly to the Sharks while they frankly were lucky to get their win against the Sharks. It's also funny that you guys are apparently so incensed simply because I think the Sharks make the playoffs. Does it really upset your desire for the team to tank that much? I mean dude cmon, I've even said I prefer they do shitty and get a high pick this season. This is the season to just totally flush games down the toilet. No fans, probably an asterisks for whoever wins the cup especially if a team loses a star or 3 to covid protocol.

A 5-3 win is more convincing then a 4-1 win? Where in the 4-1 game they never once were behind in the game? And where the game winning goal and 5th goal was scored with less then 2 minutes left and into an empty net?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

A 5-3 win is more convincing then a 4-1 win? Where in the 4-1 game they never once were behind in the game? And where the game winning goal and 5th goal was scored with less then 2 minutes left and into an empty net?

I truly hate having to re explain this stuff over and over. This info has all been posted previously. Minn got 2 goals in the last 90 seconds of the game (can't remember if both were empty netters). Sharks out played them, dominated them in the FO circle, both goalies were great in the game and Minn blocked 24(!) shots. Minn won sure but it wasn't convincing by a long shot. Sharks were the better team in both games IMO. Sharks made adjustments after the first game and outshot Minn and put up 4 with a goalie in the net. Minn got 2 into a manned net in their win. So in 2 games both teams scored 5 goals into manned nets and Minn is one goal better shooting into an empty net. Plan the parade...

 

[tealzamboni]

Minn already lost convincingly to the Sharks while they frankly were lucky to get their win against the Sharks.

It was close after 2. But, the Wild completely shut down the playoff-bound Sharks offense in the 3rd.
Minn dominated the zone entry and the Sharks couldn't get any cycle going - so I think it was more than just luck in that particular game.
Unless you are saying that Minn was lucky the Sharks weren't in playoff mode yet.

 

[Lebanezer]

Before we even talk about being better than Minnesota, we should discuss if we're even better than the Barracuda. Hell, we should call into question whether or not we're better than most AHL teams. I'm inclined to say that the only reason why any of their metrics are worse than ours is because they haven't had the chance to play against us yet.

These edits seem more accurate to me.

They're only slightly hyperbolic.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It was close after 2. But, the Wild completely shut down the playoff-bound Sharks offense in the 3rd.
Minn dominated the zone entry and the Sharks couldn't get any cycle going - so I think it was more than just luck in that particular game.
Unless you are saying that Minn was lucky the Sharks weren't in playoff mode yet.

I don't know what you watched. Sharks were clearly the better team in the 3rd. Looks like the Sharks entered the zone with ease and most of the 3rd was played in the Minn end. Even if you're right, That was the first game. Sharks adjusted and too it to them in the 2nd game.

These edits seem more accurate to me.

They're only slightly hyperbolic.

This is the Sharks board right? Seems like a bunch of you are just Kings fans posing as Sharks fans with your hot takes. Or was this meant to be a joke...?

 

[Lebanezer]

This is the Sharks board right? Seems like a bunch of you are just Kings fans posing as Sharks fans with your hot takes. Or was this meant to be a joke...?

Oh it's a joke, but they're not playing well. Regardless of results the team has been largely ineffective far more often than not. I'm hopeful they come out of the break playing better, but if they don't start showing signs of carrying the play, generating more chances, better structure, better team defense etc. then some difficult decisions need to be made. Players leaving to sign with other teams in free agency isn't really the kind of shakeup the team needs. Doug looks soft when he lets core players and leaders leave instead of stepping in to make the changes himself when the situation calls for it. He's aggressive when adding to the core, but won't admit when the core is a problem and subtract.

 

[Barrie22]

I truly hate having to re explain this stuff over and over. This info has all been posted previously. Minn got 2 goals in the last 90 seconds of the game (can't remember if both were empty netters). Sharks out played them, dominated them in the FO circle, both goalies were great in the game and Minn blocked 24(!) shots. Minn won sure but it wasn't convincing by a long shot. Sharks were the better team in both games IMO. Sharks made adjustments after the first game and outshot Minn and put up 4 with a goalie in the net. Minn got 2 into a manned net in their win. So in 2 games both teams scored 5 goals into manned nets and Minn is one goal better shooting into an empty net. Plan the parade...

We are not the ones that are trying to plan the parade for the worst team in the west the past 2 years as a playoff team, none of us have actually said the wild are a playoff team. The only one who has crazily brought up the playoffs and one of these 2 teams is you and saying the sharks are easily a playoff team.

Even though last year the sharks were last in the west and 2nd worst in the league and this year they are last in the west and 2nd worst in the league. While the wild were 10th in the west and 20th in the league, and this year they are 3rd in the west and 10th in the league.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

We are not the ones that are trying to plan the parade for the worst team in the west the past 2 years as a playoff team, none of us have actually said the wild are a playoff team. The only one who has crazily brought up the playoffs and one of these 2 teams is you and saying the sharks are easily a playoff team.

Even though last year the sharks were last in the west and 2nd worst in the league and this year they are last in the west and 2nd worst in the league. While the wild were 10th in the west and 20th in the league, and this year they are 3rd in the west and 10th in the league.

"last year" "last year" Blah, f***in blah. Last year means nothing at this point. The obvious reasons that contributed to their finish last year have been written and re written. Ignoring reality doesn't make your case the way you think it does. And once again... I'm not planning a parade, I just think they're better than they've shown so far and think they make the playoffs in this weak ass division.

Oh it's a joke, but they're not playing well. Regardless of results the team has been largely ineffective far more often than not. I'm hopeful they come out of the break playing better, but if they don't start showing signs of carrying the play, generating more chances, better structure, better team defense etc. then some difficult decisions need to be made. Players leaving to sign with other teams in free agency isn't really the kind of shakeup the team needs. Doug looks soft when he lets core players and leaders leave instead of stepping in to make the changes himself when the situation calls for it. He's aggressive when adding to the core, but won't admit when the core is a problem and subtract.

Agreed, so far they aren't playing well. I view it as not playing up to their capabilities yet. There is no way that this team doesn't find some higher level of play and more consitency.

 

[Barrie22]

"last year" "last year" Blah, f***in blah. Last year means nothing at this point. The obvious reasons that contributed to their finish last year have been written and re written. Ignoring reality doesn't make your case the way you think it does.


Agreed, so far they aren't playing well. I view it as not playing up to their capabilities yet. There is no way that this team doesn't find some higher level of play and more consitency.

Reality is they are again last but you always ignore that part don't you. They aren't scoring enough goals and can't keep the puck out of there own net this year. Not 1 thing has changed from last year. This team sucked last year and they suck again this year. Those are the reality and facts.

And your playing up to there capabilities from the offseason talks was that 4 players would be 30 goal scorers and that those same 4 players would all score 60+ points with the chance for 2 more from the backend.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

The fact that people are arguing if the Sharks are as good as Minnesota is massive clue that this team is garbage. Since when is Minnesota a team to aspire to?

 

[Barrie22]

To add more to this.

The sharks are 3rd last in point percentage.
3rd last in goals for (bad)
11th in goals against (middle of the pack)
25th in goals for per game (bad)
2nd in goals against per game (bad)
13th in shots per game (middle of the pack)
8th in shots against per game (bad)
19th in faceoff percentage. (Middle of the pack)

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Reality is they are again last but you always ignore that part don't you. They aren't scoring enough goals and can't keep the puck out of there own net this year. Not 1 thing has changed from last year. This team sucked last year and they suck again this year. Those are the reality and facts.

And your playing up to there capabilities from the offseason talks was that 4 players would be 30 goal scorers and that those same 4 players would all score 60+ points with the chance for 2 more from the backend.

Yeah... last. 8 games into a 56 game season where they've played the least amount of games in the division. Yup, let's blow it up. When you plant vegetables do burn the crop a week in if you don't immediately have produce? I know it's hard to wait for stuff in this day and age but FFS.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

To add more to this.

The sharks are 3rd last in point percentage.
3rd last in goals for (bad)
11th in goals against (middle of the pack)
25th in goals for per game (bad)
2nd in goals against per game (bad)
13th in shots per game (middle of the pack)
8th in shots against per game (bad)
19th in faceoff percentage. (Middle of the pack)

8 games in.

 

[Cas]

8 games in.

The sky has kind of been falling for the last 78 games, and this has basically been the same team throughout, so...

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

The sky has kind of been falling for the last 78 games, and this has basically been the same team throughout, so...

Again with the last season stuff...Been there, refuted that.

 

[Barrie22]

Yeah... last. 8 games into a 56 game season where they've played the least amount of games in the division. Yup, let's blow it up. When you plant vegetables do burn the crop a week in if you don't immediately have produce? I know it's hard to wait for stuff in this day and age but FFS.

So when it is the same after 15 games is it going to be 25 games? Then 35 games? Then 45 games? And then oh next year will be different right?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

So when it is the same after 15 games is it going to be 25 games? Then 35 games? Then 45 games? And then oh next year will be different right?

Dude... you need to take a breathe. I've repeatedly said the 15 game mark will at least give a decent idea what this team is actually good and bad at and how they're trending. Are you asking me to say at the 15 game mark with 100% confidence that they are or aren't a playoff team? Unless they have injuries (previously stated), yeah, I will say I think they're a playoff team in this shitty division. My 15 game comment is for all of you types who are already writing off the season 8 games in. That's just hilariously premature. I'll concede they aren't a playoff team when they realistically have no shot to make it. Not before. But I've said all this repeatedly already. Dude you really gotta go read the other comments instead of going round in circles like this.

And again with the trying to put words in my mouth to fit your narrative. I don't do it to you dude. Do better.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Once again you're ignoring the fact that Minn played 6 of the games where they guilt up those numbers against the ducks and Kings. Until it's an apples to apples comparison you really can't claim Minn's superiority.

See answer above. None of your stats mean a whole lot until they've at least faced the same competition, the same number of games. Even then you're not going to have a definitive answer until closer to the end of the season. All teams facing each other once or twice can only give you a current trend. And of course this data will get skewed for teams that get to face the Avs without Mackinnon. They're still a great team but they aren't white the same level of awesome without one of the top 2 or 3 players in the league (IMO). Also my comment about the Sharks having better offensive players was about this season. DOn't manipulate it to try and find a win. We've already hashed thru their problems offensively last season. Even you have admitted previously that they lost their leading scorer 3 times. All 3 which turned out to be long term injuries. That has a dramatic effect on offensive output.

As far as the "how much better question". From your characterization they're going to need to be 20 point better not 10. Minn only won 6 more games last season and finished 10th in the conference, 21st in the NHL. The goal differential kinda matters but I don't know where you're getting your numbers on that. Do you mean they're going to score 30 goals more than the Sharks or that their goal differential will be +30? Minn scored 38 more goals last season while the Sharks endured the worst offensive season I've seen in probably more than a decade while losing their leading scorer 3 different times to long term injury, locker room problems, coaching disarray etc, etc, etc. I'll be amazed if Minn scores more goals than the Sharks. I'll easily concede that Minn will give up less goals but there's just no way, barring an injury run like last season, that Minn scores more goals than the Sharks this season. From everything I've seen, it's coming, they're just still getting acclimated to the new system. Obviously you don't have to believe me. We'll can revisit this at the end of the season and award trophies if you want.

No, there doesn’t need to be a gap of 20 points between two teams for what I’m saying to be true. Prior to the season I said Minnesota would finish with 7 more points than San Jose. Given what has transpired seen thus far, I think 11 is now more reasonable. In 56 games, if you finish with 11 more points than another team you are far superior. That is a pace of 16 points per 82 games. The kind of gap you generally see between 1st and 8th place in a conference in a given season.

Last year Minnesota finished on pace to have 18 points more than us over 82 games. Their goal differential was +1, ours was -45. You subtract our goal differential from theirs, you get +46. That’s the number I’m talking about. How much higher their goal differential is than ours. Last year it was +46. This year it’s +11. That number adds up to +57 and the number of games each team has played adds up to roughly 82. They were the far superior team last year, and they have been far superior so far this year. If you deny that, you are simply lying to yourself.

I don’t want to be awarded any trophies. I want you to cut the shit and take a hard stance here and set some goal posts you can’t move when your ridiculous stance is proven wrong.