How did the AHL get ruined

[go comets]

What happened to this once proud north east based league?? Back in the late 80s, early 90s the league had great teams, then in the early 2000s they voted to absorb the old IHL teams .. the league started to spread... teams started spreading out more and more, Iowa, Texas, Houston, San Antonio... these smaller team owners should have seen this coming. Norfolk got screwed, Portland, other owners started selling their teams to NHL teams and that was the end.. the private owners lost control and old time cities lost their teams.. pretty sad....

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[zetajerk]

What happened to this once proud north east based league?? Back in the late 80s, early 90s the league had great teams, then in the early 2000s they voted to absorb the old IHL teams .. the league started to spread... teams started spreading out more and more, Iowa, Texas, Houston, San Antonio... these smaller team owners should have seen this coming. Norfolk got screwed, Portland, other owners started selling their teams to NHL teams and that was the end.. the private owners lost control and old time cities lost their teams.. pretty sad....

The AHL isn't ruined at all. You make a poor case by citing those four cities because they're all doing great at the gate. What's so important about it being NE? It's good for more and different people to have the opportunity to get involved. For parent clubs to extend their brand within their regions. It's great for the game.

The AHL is what it is, it's for development 1st, entertainment 2nd. I had to see the Flames leave GF last season. I loved going to see them, but places like GF are not part of the plan anymore. I fully expect to see Albany and Utica gone at some point, leaving Syracuse and Rochester as the lone NYS teams. And that's fine.

It almost sounds like it dawned on you that the Comets' days really are numbered. If they get replaced by the ECHL, refusing to support it will only screw Utica out of pro hockey because the AHL isn't going to come back. I say the same thing to people in GF, I'll say the same to Binghamton, any small city in the NE.

 

[go comets]

The AHL isn't ruined at all. You make a poor case by citing those four cities because they're all doing great at the gate. What's so important about it being NE? It's good for more and different people to have the opportunity to get involved. For parent clubs to extend their brand within their regions. It's great for the game.

The AHL is what it is, it's for development 1st, entertainment 2nd. I had to see the Flames leave GF last season. I loved going to see them, but places like GF are not part of the plan anymore. I fully expect to see Albany and Utica gone at some point, leaving Syracuse and Rochester as the lone NYS teams. And that's fine.

It almost sounds like it dawned on you that the Comets' days really are numbered. If they get replaced by the ECHL, refusing to support it will only screw Utica out of pro hockey because the AHL isn't going to come back. I say the same thing to people in GF, I'll say the same to Binghamton, any small city in the NE.

We have division 1 college... much better than echl which has already been ruled out here in Utica.a nd we have known we were on borrowed time when the canucks showed up. Remember, we were supposed to get the flames at first.

 

[Ralph Slate]

How about this bylaw:

Of the 18 skaters (not counting two goaltenders) that teams may dress for a game, at least 13 must be qualified as "development players." Of those 13, 12 must have played in 260 or fewer professional games (including AHL, NHL and European elite leagues), and one must have played in 320 or fewer professional games. All calculations for development status are based on regular-season totals as of the start of the season.

This results in the median AHL team's average age being 24 years old, and most players having less than 2.5 years of AHL-level experience (because although the limit is 260 games, it is effectively about 190 games because you're not going to sign a player that will have to stop playing mid-season).

That is what makes the AHL a lot less than it could be, and less than what it had been.

At this point, its only path is going to be "NHL D-league" with teams trying to "expand their brands", because it becomes very hard to get excited about the Lowell Devils when you are a Bruins fan when your only identification to the players are that they are "future Devils" rather than players who have been in town for half a decade.

 

[210]

This results in the median AHL team's average age being 24 years old, and most players having less than 2.5 years of AHL-level experience (because although the limit is 260 games, it is effectively about 190 games because you're not going to sign a player that will have to stop playing mid-season).

"All calculations for development status are based on regular-season totals as of the start of the season."

The way that rule works a player gets four full AHL seasons before they count as a vet...and a decent player gets a 5th season because he'll likely be under 320.

 

[go comets]

How about this bylaw:



This results in the median AHL team's average age being 24 years old, and most players having less than 2.5 years of AHL-level experience (because although the limit is 260 games, it is effectively about 190 games because you're not going to sign a player that will have to stop playing mid-season).

That is what makes the AHL a lot less than it could be, and less than what it had been.

At this point, its only path is going to be "NHL D-league" with teams trying to "expand their brands", because it becomes very hard to get excited about the Lowell Devils when you are a Bruins fan when your only identification to the players are that they are "future Devils" rather than players who have been in town for half a decade.

Does not work like that. If a player starts the season not a veteran, he is exempt thru the end of the season.

 

[MiamiHockey]

What happened to this once proud north east based league?? Back in the late 80s, early 90s the league had great teams, then in the early 2000s they voted to absorb the old IHL teams .. the league started to spread... teams started spreading out more and more, Iowa, Texas, Houston, San Antonio... these smaller team owners should have seen this coming. Norfolk got screwed, Portland, other owners started selling their teams to NHL teams and that was the end.. the private owners lost control and old time cities lost their teams.. pretty sad....

Take a long look at the attendance figures.

In the late 80s, the highest average attendance for a single team was around 6000. Most teams were around 3000-4000.

In 15-16, the highest attendance was nearly 10,000 (Hershey) and most teams were around 6000.

So, the AHL has been ruined by locating in markets that have boosted average attendance by roughly 50%?

That's an interesting definition of ruin.

 

[Hoodaha]

Take a long look at the attendance figures.

In the late 80s, the highest average attendance for a single team was around 6000. Most teams were around 3000-4000.

In 15-16, the highest attendance was nearly 10,000 (Hershey) and most teams were around 6000.

So, the AHL has been ruined by locating in markets that have boosted average attendance by roughly 50%?

That's an interesting definition of ruin.

Some people won't like change and I feel badly for fans who have lost teams, but does anyone really think San Diego is a downgrade from Norfolk, for example?

 

[210]

Some people won't like change and I feel badly for fans who have lost teams, but does anyone really think San Diego is a downgrade from Norfolk, for example?

Well, if you enjoy ocean sunrises it's not as good...

 

[Ralph Slate]

Thanks for the pointer on the veteran rule. I still stand by my point - I think it is unusual to see players play more than 3 seasons in the AHL (especially for the same team). Maybe I'll try and run the numbers on that later on.

Some people won't like change and I feel badly for fans who have lost teams, but does anyone really think San Diego is a downgrade from Norfolk, for example?

This is a really good point - objectively it looks like the AHL is doing great. I think that the feeling of "ruin" is more a feeling of uncertainty. In the 1990s, the fans of most teams could concentrate on the game. These days, all independent (i.e. not owned by the NHL) teams which are not within a couple of hours of their parent team have to worry about attendance on a game-by-game basis. They have to worry that each year might be the last.

It's a lousy feeling, especially when you can't do much about it, and especially when there are now two reasons for your city to not have a team - because the attendance is too low, or because the NHL doesn't want you because you're too far.

The other thing I have learned, however, is that as much as we obsess and preen about attendance figures, they are a completely one-dimensional way to look at the "worthiness" of a city. The numbers just don't convey differences in support very well.

This is a good article about the WBS Penguins and their approach to ticket sales, comparing to Lehigh Valley and Binghamton.

 

[210]

Thanks for the pointer on the veteran rule. I still stand by my point - I think it is unusual to see players play more than 3 seasons in the AHL (especially for the same team). Maybe I'll try and run the numbers on that later on.

It's not that unusual. My guess is about half of AHL players that make it three seasons play at least portions of a fourth. The vet rule doesn't play a part in that though. NHL entry level contracts are based on the age of the signing player, and for every player coming out of the CHL would be three seasons..

At the end of those three season ELCs players are either still on a track for the NHL or aren't given a qualifying offer.

So of that large group that started in the AHL together you'll get many dropped because they aren't good enough for another NHL contract and they often trickle into the ECHL. The better players get that fourth season or decide to head to Europe.

The vet rule really just applies to "career minor leaguers" who play a fifth season.

 

[go comets]

The AHL isn't ruined at all. You make a poor case by citing those four cities because they're all doing great at the gate. What's so important about it being NE? It's good for more and different people to have the opportunity to get involved. For parent clubs to extend their brand within their regions. It's great for the game.

The AHL is what it is, it's for development 1st, entertainment 2nd. I had to see the Flames leave GF last season. I loved going to see them, but places like GF are not part of the plan anymore. I fully expect to see Albany and Utica gone at some point, leaving Syracuse and Rochester as the lone NYS teams. And that's fine.

It almost sounds like it dawned on you that the Comets' days really are numbered. If they get replaced by the ECHL, refusing to support it will only screw Utica out of pro hockey because the AHL isn't going to come back. I say the same thing to people in GF, I'll say the same to Binghamton, any small city in the NE.

How many leagues do you know of that let one division play less games than the rest of the league??? a 76 game schedule should be played by all teams. it just makes no sense to me. if the western teams want special treatment then why did they just go start their own league up??

The AHL was at its best when they just kept to themselves and bused the northeast. the mid west teams had the IHL and that fell apart do to teams traveling too much and owners could not cash flow teams. now they are doing it all over again....

 

[210]

How many leagues do you know of that let one division play less games than the rest of the league??? a 76 game schedule should be played by all teams. it just makes no sense to me. if the western teams want special treatment then why did they just go start their own league up??

The AHL was at its best when they just kept to themselves and bused the northeast. the mid west teams had the IHL and that fell apart do to teams traveling too much and owners could not cash flow teams. now they are doing it all over again....

Travel was not the issue that caused the IHL's demise.

The IHL tried to become what everyone here wants: a truly independent hockey league. So the NHL teams turned their backs on the IHL and started affiliating with AHL clubs...and without NHL clubs subsidizing them that was the end of the IHL.

 

[Hurricane Ron]

It will be interesting to see what happens with AAA hockey over the next five years. I wouldn't be surprised to see a return to what existed 40 years ago, several AAA leagues, associated with nearby parent teams.

It may make more sense, travel wise, to have 3 AAA leagues, with 10 to 12 teams, than one AAA league with 31/32 teams.

I guess time will tell. I've followed hockey for over 40 years now, and if you told me 40 years ago the AHL would be the only AAA hockey league, I would have said that you were crazy!

 

[Ralph Slate]

I am starting to do some analysis on teams. I am starting small.

I picked the 1989-90 Utica Devils as my first team. There were 27 players that played more than 10 games on that team (four played under 10 - I ignored them).

Of the 27, eight [30%] played more than 260 games prior to the 1989-90 season. All the players played a total of 1,748 NHL games prior to 1989-90 - 17 players had played in the NHL, with the most being Perry Anderson with 351 NHL games and Peter Sundstrom with 317 NHL games. The total number of pro seasons played prior to 1989-90 was 99.

I then picked the 2015-16 Albany Devils. There were quite a few more players that played less than 10 games - sixteen of them. I also ignored them.

Of the 29 remaining players, eight [28%] had played more than 260 games prior to 2015-16. All the players played a total of 716 NHL games prior to 2015-16 - 10 players had played in the NHL, with the most being Rod Pelley with 256 games followed by Corey Tropp with 148. The total number of pro seasons played prior to 2015-16 was 53.

Albany had a total of 53 man-seasons where the players had played for the Albany franchise. Utica had just 27.

Albany had 4 players who had non-trivial lower-league experience; Utica had just one.

This is a small sample size, but the difference between these two teams is:

Veteran players: both were comparable
Players with NHL experience: Utica wins handily, with more than twice as much NHL experience.
Number of pro seasons: Utica again wins handily, with almost twice as many pro man-seasons.
Number of returning players: Albany wins handily there, doubling Utica in this metric.
Roster stability: Utica (Albany had more players under 10 games)
Lower-level players: Utica (

From this comparison, while both teams had comparable veterans, Utica's veterans had a lot more NHL experience. Albany seems to be lacking non-veteran players who played professionally, maybe indicating that instead of a more balanced team, they were heavy on veterans (though not NHL-caliber veterans) and heavy on lesser-experience AHL players plus players who had experience in lower pro leagues like the ECHL.

I will see if I can run this analysis on a full set of data rather than just two randomly picked teams.

 

[wildcat48]

I think ruined might be the wrong word. The AHL hasn’t been ruined, but I would argue that what the AHL is doing right now is very shortsighted. NHL teams are choosing to having their farm clubs close abandoning regional clusters that have defined the AHL for nearly 80 years.

For the longest time, fans were told that AHL teams needed to maintain close proximity to each other in order to reduce travel so players could spend more time at home where they could practice, get proper nutrition and medical care and have plenty of rest because they’re able to sleep in their own beds. AHL owners also liked this because it reduced the number of hotel nights which keep travel cost down.

Specifically, Portland was told by Anaheim and Phoenix that despite the proximity between the NHL club and its AHL affiliate there was no issue with travel because overall travel of the AHL team and its benefits outweighed recalling a player from Portland to either city. That’s why the New England cartel – as I often referred to the seven or eight teams in NE – worked so well because Portland could play Manchester, Lowell, Worcester, Springfield and Hartford 10 or 12 times each and keep travel cost down.

During Anaheim’s last season (07-08) in Portland the players spent a total of nine hotel nights on the road versus San Antonio which spent 63 nights on the road for that same season. Now more than half the league will be on airplane as the AHL become less and less a bus league.

It’s a complete shift as NHL teams now view having their AHL farm club in their backyard as a priority. It’s really become a priority since the salary cap took hold and teams realized they can save nickels and dimes on the cap and use it to their advantage at the trade deadline or over the course of the season, allowing them to sign more lucrative player. NHL teams are also using the AHL in their backyard as a way to scout and evaluate their prospects and prospects of other teams. A byproduct of the cap is team having less time to wait for a player to develop. NHL teams sign players to their entry-level contract and now must decide whether they are ready for the NHL by the end of the second year or they move on. No longer does a prospect get time to toil in the AHL for three or four years before moving on to the NHL full time. It’s now by the end of the second year or they’re likely not going to be qualified when they ELC is finished.

There is the branding aspect as NHL teams have become massive media and marketing conglomerates. They manage arena facilities, own sports networks, publishing companies and they need content and what’s a better way to promote their brand than through the NHL team’s stars of tomorrow.

They solved these issues by moving their farm club to their back yard, playing in an arena they manage and reducing the number of games played in the season. Every west coast team will have a 68 game schedule. It was part of the agreement, demand or whatever you want call by western NHL clubs when the AHL created the Pacific Division. The other "by-law" is every team that plays in the Pacific has to be owned by the NHL parent club. San Antonio was grandfathered because they expect that Texas and Dallas will be moved out of that division in the next year or so.

It’s clearly evident that AHL teams are no longer beholden to their fans anymore. As such there is nobody to hold them accountable. Dave Andrews and the AHL Board of Governors have decided that the NHL is their number one customer and they are going to cater to them before anyone else at all cost.

That means long standing markets are at risk for relocation. Cities that have been considered guarantee markets are no longer guaranteed anything. New England has already lost Manchester, Worcester, Lowell and Portland. Springfield, Hartford and Bridgeport are likely next, leaving Providence as the last remaining AHL team in New England. Albany, Binghamton, St. John’s and Utica are being moved or will be moved within the next few years. Hershey is at the behest of the Washington Capitals despite everything about the franchise that makes it’s the gold standard in the league. Even Rochester is vulnerable if the Sabres don’t get their arena in Rochester or vast improvements to the current arena.

The NHL dictates policy based on the whims or the fad thing to do. Winning is no longer the first consideration for an AHL team. It’s first priority is about the development of an NHL team's assets.

The wolves have been let into the hen house and it’s only a matter of time before the AHL is a subsidiary of the NHL.

I believe the time is now for the ECHL in New England. While its undergoing its own series of adjustments due to the AHL, I think this is a rare opportunity for the ECHL jump into several very good hockey markets and build instant rivalries among cities. The ECHL is still more community based and more about X city’s team versus Y NHL team’s affiliate. Fans will be able to get behind a team because they know a player is trying to win for that city and not necessarily worrying about being the next call up to the NHL. There is a commitment to the community and that allows for stability. Also, the difference is hockey is not that drastic. It’s less of a step from the ECHL to the AHL than it is from the AHL to the NHL. Maybe people are not seeing first round draft picks but they are also seeing good hockey players in ECHL that want to be that community. That’s a huge selling point.

 

[Ralph Slate]

wildcat48, I think you said it perfectly. I think that within 5 years, the AHL will either implode back to more regional divisions, or every team will be within an hour's drive of their NHL team. I don't even think Hershey will be safe. I think the league will even be re-branded as NHL-2 once the teams are all in their parent markets.

As you can see, the Northeast void is already being filled by the ECHL, but the ECHL is still tainted by the NHL (to a lesser degree). They are limiting themselves to 30 teams, and they have imposed the same "development" rules as the AHL (really a rule to keep salaries down, but the PHPA has become comfortable enough with it).

I think there is an opportunity for a different style of league to take root, either by the ECHL becoming more independent from the NHL, or by a whole new league sprouting up should the ECHL hold firm to its 30-team plan and its pretending to be a "development" league for the NHL. A league that isn't AAAA like the IHL, but is truly AAA hockey as opposed to AAA-development hockey.

As a fan, the familiarity of players is a big thing to me. I'm not one of those guys who hangs around trying to meet them - I simply mean understanding who they are on the ice, knowing what they are capable of doing when I see them. That is why this past year in Springfield was lousy - I had no idea who these players were since Arizona was a new affiliate. That's why I'm trying to objectively describe the situation that I perceive - that the AHL today is churning players through faster these days.

I have started going deeper, and I am a little amazed at the wide differences between teams in the league. For example, in 2015-16, the Lake Erie Monsters had the most NHL experience on their roster, with 2,880 games played by their players prior to the 2015-16 season. The Texas Stars had the least, with 183 games. That's not a typo.

Grand Rapids really focused on player retention - they had 72 man-seasons of players who had been with the team in prior years, including Jakub Kindl [7 seasons], Brian Lashoff [6 seasons] and Tom McCollum [6 seasons]. Ignoring the teams involved in the affiliation swaps (Lake Erie, San Antonio, Portland, and Springfield), the Chicago Wolves had just 22 man-seasons of players who had been with the team in prior seasons - seven players who had been there 2 seasons each and eight players who had been there only the prior season.

Regarding pro games played, Utica led the league with 10,013. On the other end, Texas had 5,142. That's a huge difference.

Regarding lower-level games played, Chicago led there with 2,010 games - meaning players who primarily developed in the ECHL. Lake Erie was at the bottom with just 379.

I still have to go deeper, perhaps game-weighting some of these numbers so they work better on an aggregate level (if Vancouver sent down Daniel Sedin for one game, it would show up as an additional 1,143 NHL games with their totals). I will continue to refine this.

 

[210]

There's no way an independent AAAA league survives in North America. It is simply not financially feasible.

 

[go comets]

I think ruined might be the wrong word. The AHL hasn’t been ruined, but I would argue that what the AHL is doing right now is very shortsighted. NHL teams are choosing to having their farm clubs close abandoning regional clusters that have defined the AHL for nearly 80 years.

For the longest time, fans were told that AHL teams needed to maintain close proximity to each other in order to reduce travel so players could spend more time at home where they could practice, get proper nutrition and medical care and have plenty of rest because they’re able to sleep in their own beds. AHL owners also liked this because it reduced the number of hotel nights which keep travel cost down.

Specifically, Portland was told by Anaheim and Phoenix that despite the proximity between the NHL club and its AHL affiliate there was no issue with travel because overall travel of the AHL team and its benefits outweighed recalling a player from Portland to either city. That’s why the New England cartel – as I often referred to the seven or eight teams in NE – worked so well because Portland could play Manchester, Lowell, Worcester, Springfield and Hartford 10 or 12 times each and keep travel cost down.

During Anaheim’s last season (07-08) in Portland the players spent a total of nine hotel nights on the road versus San Antonio which spent 63 nights on the road for that same season. Now more than half the league will be on airplane as the AHL become less and less a bus league.

It’s a complete shift as NHL teams now view having their AHL farm club in their backyard as a priority. It’s really become a priority since the salary cap took hold and teams realized they can save nickels and dimes on the cap and use it to their advantage at the trade deadline or over the course of the season, allowing them to sign more lucrative player. NHL teams are also using the AHL in their backyard as a way to scout and evaluate their prospects and prospects of other teams. A byproduct of the cap is team having less time to wait for a player to develop. NHL teams sign players to their entry-level contract and now must decide whether they are ready for the NHL by the end of the second year or they move on. No longer does a prospect get time to toil in the AHL for three or four years before moving on to the NHL full time. It’s now by the end of the second year or they’re likely not going to be qualified when they ELC is finished.

There is the branding aspect as NHL teams have become massive media and marketing conglomerates. They manage arena facilities, own sports networks, publishing companies and they need content and what’s a better way to promote their brand than through the NHL team’s stars of tomorrow.

They solved these issues by moving their farm club to their back yard, playing in an arena they manage and reducing the number of games played in the season. Every west coast team will have a 68 game schedule. It was part of the agreement, demand or whatever you want call by western NHL clubs when the AHL created the Pacific Division. The other "by-law" is every team that plays in the Pacific has to be owned by the NHL parent club. San Antonio was grandfathered because they expect that Texas and Dallas will be moved out of that division in the next year or so.

It’s clearly evident that AHL teams are no longer beholden to their fans anymore. As such there is nobody to hold them accountable. Dave Andrews and the AHL Board of Governors have decided that the NHL is their number one customer and they are going to cater to them before anyone else at all cost.

That means long standing markets are at risk for relocation. Cities that have been considered guarantee markets are no longer guaranteed anything. New England has already lost Manchester, Worcester, Lowell and Portland. Springfield, Hartford and Bridgeport are likely next, leaving Providence as the last remaining AHL team in New England. Albany, Binghamton, St. John’s and Utica are being moved or will be moved within the next few years. Hershey is at the behest of the Washington Capitals despite everything about the franchise that makes it’s the gold standard in the league. Even Rochester is vulnerable if the Sabres don’t get their arena in Rochester or vast improvements to the current arena.

The NHL dictates policy based on the whims or the fad thing to do. Winning is no longer the first consideration for an AHL team. It’s first priority is about the development of an NHL team's assets.

The wolves have been let into the hen house and it’s only a matter of time before the AHL is a subsidiary of the NHL.

I believe the time is now for the ECHL in New England. While its undergoing its own series of adjustments due to the AHL, I think this is a rare opportunity for the ECHL jump into several very good hockey markets and build instant rivalries among cities. The ECHL is still more community based and more about X city’s team versus Y NHL team’s affiliate. Fans will be able to get behind a team because they know a player is trying to win for that city and not necessarily worrying about being the next call up to the NHL. There is a commitment to the community and that allows for stability. Also, the difference is hockey is not that drastic. It’s less of a step from the ECHL to the AHL than it is from the AHL to the NHL. Maybe people are not seeing first round draft picks but they are also seeing good hockey players in ECHL that want to be that community. That’s a huge selling point.

excellent post!!! and quite honesty it is exactly what Vancouver has been saying about Utica. short trips, home almost every night, lots of practice and off ice time. little travel. i guess in 4-5 seasons some may figure that having prospects traveling will hurt their development, and things will change....

 

[royals119]

if the western teams want special treatment then why did they just go start their own league up??

That was the alternative. If the other owners hadn't agreed to the compromise they would have split off and formed a separate league. That would have been worse for the AHL in the long run. When a west coast team (say Arizona) wanted a close AAA affiliate, instead of buying and moving an AHL team, they would just abandon that team by pulling the affiliation, and then get a team in the new "west coast AAA league". The AHL owner wouldn't be able to field a team, and unless he could poach an affiliation from another team he would end up folding his team with no compensation. The two leagues would be battling for NHL affiliations, with the west coast league offering NHL teams any concessions they wanted, with little or no startup costs. The AHL's costs would go up, as the lost national sponsors, had increased per team costs for insurance, officials, equipment, etc as the number of teams dropped.

It may make more sense, travel wise, to have 3 AAA leagues, with 10 to 12 teams, than one AAA league with 31/32 teams.

See above - I don't think it will happen - or if it does the AHL will slowly lost teams to the new NHL2, and eventually fold.

It’s clearly evident that AHL teams are no longer beholden to their fans anymore. As such there is nobody to hold them accountable. Dave Andrews and the AHL Board of Governors have decided that the NHL is their number one customer and they are going to cater to them before anyone else at all cost.

The wolves have been let into the hen house and it’s only a matter of time before the AHL is a subsidiary of the NHL.

The board of governors is made up a representative from each team. I believe there are now 16 NHL owned teams and 14 teams with local ownership. Each governor is going to vote for what is best for his or her own team, and for what they see as best for the league as they want it to be. Since the majority of those governors represent NHL owners, the league will continue to make decisions that benefit them. Andrews can advise the board on what he thinks is best, but at the end of they day, they tell him what to do, and he just implements their plans and policies. The NHL doesn't need to own the AHL, it will likely continue to be a collection of individually owned teams - but more and more of those teams will be owned by the NHL team owners. Eventually even teams like Chicago and Hershey will go along with what the other owners want because they will be such a small minority that they won't have a choice - or they will end up selling out.

I believe the time is now for the ECHL in New England. While its undergoing its own series of adjustments due to the AHL, I think this is a rare opportunity for the ECHL jump into several very good hockey markets and build instant rivalries among cities. The ECHL is still more community based and more about X city’s team versus Y NHL team’s affiliate. Fans will be able to get behind a team because they know a player is trying to win for that city and not necessarily worrying about being the next call up to the NHL. There is a commitment to the community and that allows for stability. Also, the difference is hockey is not that drastic. It’s less of a step from the ECHL to the AHL than it is from the AHL to the NHL. Maybe people are not seeing first round draft picks but they are also seeing good hockey players in ECHL that want to be that community. That’s a huge selling point.

I expect the ECHL will continue to admit former AHL cities where there is an interested owner. There are always enough struggling teams that someone in Hartford, Springfield, Portland, or wherever will be able to get a team if they want one. The league has already voted that they won't expand beyond the size of the AHL, and they are moving toward a one to one relationship where each team has an AHL affiliate and players will be called up to the affiliate only. They aren't there yet, but that is the direction.

Lots of ECHL fans complain about players who aren't here for the good of the team, who only care about their next callup, who just want to pad their personal stats, who leave the team shorthanded for a critical game to go to the AHL and be a healthy scratch on a team that isn't their affiliate. Most teams turn over their roster to a significant degree every year. Maybe 8-10 guys will come back, and most teams use 45-50 players over the course of a season with an 18 man active roster on game day. Even season ticket holders need a line up card every night to recognize their own team. The level of play is much closer between the AHL and ECHL than ever before. I'm a STH for the Reading Royals and a couple years ago every player who had more than 20 games with the Royals also had at least one call up to the AHL. Now first line ECHL players are still third line AHL guys, there is a difference.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Take a long look at the attendance figures.

In the late 80s, the highest average attendance for a single team was around 6000. Most teams were around 3000-4000.

In 15-16, the highest attendance was nearly 10,000 (Hershey) and most teams were around 6000.

So, the AHL has been ruined by locating in markets that have boosted average attendance by roughly 50%?

That's an interesting definition of ruin.

You're not comparing apples to apples. Hershey has a new arena so their attendance jumped.

If you compare year over year to teams that are in the same location as before the attendance has dropped unless a new arena was factored into play.

excellent post!!! and quite honesty it is exactly what Vancouver has been saying about Utica. short trips, home almost every night, lots of practice and off ice time. little travel. i guess in 4-5 seasons some may figure that having prospects traveling will hurt their development, and things will change....

Some people say the AHL was ruined some like it this way.

I do not mind the AHL testing rules for the NHL, I do not mind the teams wanting to be close to their NHL team. 3 things I dislike about the AHL:

1) The repetitiveness of the schedule. Playing the same team 14 times per year every single year and sometimes not even playing all the teams in your own conference.

2) The lack of veterans being eligible to play. They changed the veteran rule when the IHL was absorbed. The IHL teams were kicking everyone's ass so the legacy teams changed the rule,

3) The lack of the league keeping up with the times from a technology and information basis

 

[go comets]

Yes I have heard fans complaining about playing the same couple of teams 12-14 times a year. Not an issue in utica, as we have teams around us in all directions. But I know the Pa team play each other a lot. And the. Mid west, Chicago, Milwaukee, Rockford play a lot. But that is what happens when you spread out the teams as they have now done. How long before these California teams and fans get sick of seeing the same teams over and over and over????? And if they start traveling and playing every team, ticket prices will go up. California fans complain some now that the pay just as much for a seasons ticket as everyone else and get less games


The veteran rules do not bother me. It supposed to be a development team, keeps teams from loading up on top talent and keeps parity in the league.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

To be fair, the Midwest teams don't mind seeing each other a lot. It's that it's always the same teams, over and over again every season with no variety. There wouldn't be any complaints if we had a schedule like this.

10 vs Chicago
10 vs Rockford
6 vs Iowa
6 vs Grand Rapids
6 vs Lake Erie
4 vs Charlotte
4 vs Texas
4 vs San Antonio
4 vs Manitoba
2 vs San Jose, Stockton, Ontario, Tucson, Bakersfield and San Diego
2 vs Toronto
2 vs Hershey
2 vs Providence
2 vs Rochester
2 vs Utica

Would that really be that difficult? It would be far better than the schedule we got last year.

12 vs Rockford
12 vs Chicago
8 vs Grand Rapids
8 vs Lake Erie
8 vs Iowa
8 vs Charlotte
8 vs Manitoba
4 vs Texas
4 vs San Antonio
2 vs Bakersfield
2 vs San Diego

Think about that. 85% of our home schedule came against 7 teams. That's not exciting for anybody, no matter how big of a rivalry you have with a couple of those teams. At some point you're just like "oh Rockford again? I just saw them two times last week."

 

[Tommy Hawk]

To be fair, the Midwest teams don't mind seeing each other a lot. It's that it's always the same teams, over and over again every season with no variety. There wouldn't be any complaints if we had a schedule like this.

10 vs Chicago
10 vs Rockford
6 vs Iowa
6 vs Grand Rapids
6 vs Lake Erie
4 vs Charlotte
4 vs Texas
4 vs San Antonio
4 vs Manitoba
2 vs San Jose, Stockton, Ontario, Tucson, Bakersfield and San Diego
2 vs Toronto
2 vs Hershey
2 vs Providence
2 vs Rochester
2 vs Utica

Would that really be that difficult? It would be far better than the schedule we got last year.

12 vs Rockford
12 vs Chicago
8 vs Grand Rapids
8 vs Lake Erie
8 vs Iowa
8 vs Charlotte
8 vs Manitoba
4 vs Texas
4 vs San Antonio
2 vs Bakersfield
2 vs San Diego

Think about that. 85% of our home schedule came against 7 teams. That's not exciting for anybody, no matter how big of a rivalry you have with a couple of those teams. At some point you're just like "oh Rockford again? I just saw them two times last week."

You got to see 2 more teams than we did in Chicago. I understand about not every team every year but when you do not even see all the teams in your own conference, that is just plain sad. And it would be nice to have a crossover every year against the east. They can alternate the division foes so one year it is one division in the east the next year the other division.


And yes it is a developmental league but you don't even have 25% of the team as a veteran with 4. They should go back to 8 and a goalie. They should also put ice time rules in play as well but the AHL doesn't keep ice time stats.

 

[go comets]

Here in Utica we did play every team in the eastern conference last season. As far as the veterans rules, a veteran is defined by i think 260 games at the start of the season.t would be on the low end 3-1/2 seasons and up to 4-1/2 seasons of experience. If a player has not made the NHL in that time frame then it's highly unlikely that they will. And most teams add at least a half dozen new players each season..... it seams about right to me....