How can we bring a strong "Leadership" core?

[Un33q]

I would rather someone that can turn left while skating and doesnt want 5milx8 years when he is really worth 3milx1 year.

In all honest, for leadership, we need legit leaders. Someone to motivate and rally the troops. To be the bad guy and the good guy at the same time while demanding respect. Phaneuf is just not that guy right now and I dont think any of the players in the roster can step up.

 

[thewave]

In all honest, for leadership, we need legit leaders. Someone to motivate and rally the troops. To be the bad guy and the good guy at the same time while demanding respect. Phaneuf is just not that guy right now and I dont think any of the players in the roster can step up.

Omg what is Lupul doing to himself and that backdrop? Really?

 

[gabeliscious]

If the Leafs sign Bolland they could give him a 'C'. I dare you to come up with a better name amongst these losers.

bolland wont be back. even if he is we need a captain for 82 games, not 55-60.

Dion and Kadri for Kessler? Then we use the massive amount of cap space to sign Moulson or someone like Robidas and Ott.

phaneuf would be vancouvers most expensive defenseman. im sure they could use him though. it seems like the weak part of their team with only hamhuis, garrison, edler, bieksa, and tanev.

 

[Faltorvo]

In all honest, for leadership, we need legit leaders. Someone to motivate and rally the troops. To be the bad guy and the good guy at the same time while demanding respect. Phaneuf is just not that guy right now and I dont think any of the players in the roster can step up.

to the bolded

it's probably semantics but

one can't demand respect, it's something that is earned.

Now to command respect through action and deed and word at the same time?

Well now we are talking.

For the record, we don't have a captain on this team.;

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

Everybody is making suggestions on adding new possible players and posting their arm-chair GM rosters but for what? Those teams would never come close to winning a cup. Do you want the Leafs to be a team that is perennially considered a cup-contender like the Bruins, Hawks, Blues, Sharks and Kings or do you want them to be a team where almost everything has to break right and they have to avoid certain teams to make it that far? I personally would choose the former and if it means rebuilding, so be it. If the Leafs are going to rebuild, pick a style of play that you want this future contending Leafs team to play like. As much as people like the physicality and toughness of teams like the Bruins, Kings and Blues, I would rather incorporate a skill, speed and puck possession type game that the Blackhawks, those old Red Wings teams had and the Sharks use.

If the Leafs can get the 8th overall pick this year by losing their last 2 games and getting a little bit of help, try and trade that 8th pick and Phaneuf to the Oilers for their 3rd overall and select Bennett or Reinhart because one of them will most likely be available there. I'm gonna use Bennett for my example.

Kessel should be here over the long-term to help benefit the development of Bennett but if you can get a young #1 C prospect for him...by all means go ahead. However when I say a #1 C prospect, I don't want them to trade him for guys like RNH, Strome, Huberdeau (small, skilled centers). If we're trading Kessel for a #1 C prospect, I want it to be a guy like Barkov, Hertl, Johannson or Galchenyuk. Centers that can compliment the skill, speed, leadership and grit that Bennett has with the same qualities but with size too. I really wanted this new Leafs team to have 2 #1 C's that resemble the Leaf teams where they had Sundin and Gilmour that complemented each other. For this Kessel trade, I'll use Barkov as my example. I'm going to keep Kessel in my post however.

Any offensive pieces that are left outside of the core can be used to fill holes via trade.

On the back-end, I see Rielly as the only complete lock and Gardiner as an essential piece to keep. Finn and Percy will be welcoming additions to the back-end but they will need time to develop, but with the Leafs rebuilding, they will have that time. If they can't trade Gunnerson, he's decent in a role that isn't top pairing. In the net, Bernier is our franchise #1 and I have full confidence in him.

That mean's the core going forward into 2015 and beyond...

JVR-Bennett-Kessel
XXX-Eichel/McDavid?-XXX
XXX-Bozak (probably will be kept and is useful)-XXX
XXX-XXX-XXX

Rielly-XXX
Gardiner-Finn
Percy-XXX/Gunnerson?

Bernier
XXX

Lot's of holes but I would much rather cheer for the potential of that Leaf team as opposed to what I'm forced to root for now.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Everybody is making suggestions on adding new possible players and posting their arm-chair GM rosters but for what? Those teams would never come close to winning a cup. Do you want the Leafs to be a team that is perennially considered a cup-contender like the Bruins, Hawks, Blues, Sharks and Kings or do you want them to be a team where almost everything has to break right and they have to avoid certain teams to make it that far? I personally would choose the former and if it means rebuilding, so be it. If the Leafs are going to rebuild, pick a style of play that you want this future contending Leafs team to play like. As much as people like the physicality and toughness of teams like the Bruins, Kings and Blues, I would rather incorporate a skill, speed and puck possession type game that the Blackhawks, those old Red Wings teams had and the Sharks use.

If the Leafs can get the 8th overall pick this year by losing their last 2 games and getting a little bit of help, try and trade that 8th pick and Phaneuf to the Oilers for their 3rd overall and select Bennett or Reinhart because one of them will most likely be available there. I'm gonna use Bennett for my example.

Kessel should be here over the long-term to help benefit the development of Bennett but if you can get a young #1 C prospect for him...by all means go ahead. However when I say a #1 C prospect, I don't want them to trade him for guys like RNH, Strome, Huberdeau (small, skilled centers). If we're trading Kessel for a #1 C prospect, I want it to be a guy like Barkov, Hertl, Johannson or Galchenyuk. Centers that can compliment the skill, speed, leadership and grit that Bennett has with the same qualities but with size too. I really wanted this new Leafs team to have 2 #1 C's that resemble the Leaf teams where they had Sundin and Gilmour that complemented each other. For this Kessel trade, I'll use Barkov as my example. I'm going to keep Kessel in my post however.

Any offensive pieces that are left outside of the core can be used to fill holes via trade.

On the back-end, I see Rielly as the only complete lock and Gardiner as an essential piece to keep. Finn and Percy will be welcoming additions to the back-end but they will need time to develop, but with the Leafs rebuilding, they will have that time. If they can't trade Gunnerson, he's decent in a role that isn't top pairing. In the net, Bernier is our franchise #1 and I have full confidence in him.

That mean's the core going forward into 2015 and beyond...

JVR-Bennett-Kessel
XXX-Eichel/McDavid?-XXX
XXX-Bozak (probably will be kept and is useful)-XXX
XXX-XXX-XXX

Rielly-XXX
Gardiner-Finn
Percy-XXX/Gunnerson?

Bernier
XXX

Lot's of holes but I would much rather cheer for the potential of that Leaf team as opposed to what I'm forced to root for now.

This is grounded in a fantasy world called NHL 14.

Yes this team needs to move some key pieces, but they will never win having Percy, Rielly, Gardiner, and Gunn as your D. Soft as butter.

Why window dress it? This is a tanking bad plan. No player, coach, or GM draws that up as their game plan.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

bolland wont be back. even if he is we need a captain for 82 games, not 55-60.




phaneuf would be vancouvers most expensive defenseman. im sure they could use him though. it seems like the weak part of their team with only hamhuis, garrison, edler, bieksa, and tanev.

Are you old enough to remember Wendel? He was a good captain who was only good for 50-60 games. No one seemed to complain that his attendance record was captain enough.

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

This is grounded in a fantasy world called NHL 14.

Yes this team needs to move some key pieces, but they will never win having Percy, Rielly, Gardiner, and Gunn as your D. Soft as butter.

Why window dress it? This is a tanking bad plan. No player, coach, or GM draws that up as their game plan.

No Einstein...I didn't change anything on the defense because I had no idea of who they could add so I just included prospects we have in our system as a bare minimum. With the excepting of Bennett, I made a basic roster of who should be kept for the rebuild. Easy to criticize when you fail to include any valuable input... The one trade I included was Phaneuf and an 8th overall pick for the Oilers 3rd, which isn't that far-fetched. Your probably one of the most fantasy-land posters on this site so your reply to my post is beyond laughable.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I don't believe it's leadership necessarily.

I think it's more having to many defensively weak players playing to many minutes. Some of these players need to be shipped out (Raymond, Franson) and some will get better with age like Rielly and Gardiner.

Kessel, Lupul, Raymond, Kadri are all among our top 6 TOI forwards and none are noted as being good 200 foot players and that was the case long before this season.

On D all the blame is being placed on Phaneuf right now but he was our rock for most of the season. Franson is an absolute trainwreck defensively and was a PP specialist prior to this season but this year we had to try him as an every situation Dman because of lack of options. Gardiner + Rielly are very weak defensively but will get better with age.

Add in Bolland being hurt (or playing hurt) for most of the year and we simply didn't have 200 foot players at forward or a good 2nd pair on D.

Things some very bleak right now but their is hope because a D built around Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly when they mature a bit more is a very good top 3 group.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't believe it's leadership necessarily.

I think it's more having to many defensively weak players.

Kessel, Lupul, Raymond, Kadri are all among our top 6 TOI forwards and none are noted as being good 200 foot players and that was the case long before this season.

On D all the blame is being placed on Phaneuf right now but he was our rock for most of the season. Franson is an absolute trainwreck defensively and was a PP specialist prior to this season but this year we had to try him as an every situation Dman because of lack of options. Gardiner + Rielly are very weak defensively but will get better with age.

Add in Bolland being hurt (or playing hurt) for most of the year and we simply didn't have 200 foot players at forward or a good 2nd pair on D.

Things some very bleak right now but their is hope because a D built around Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly when they mature a bit more is a very good top 3 group.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I would like to point out that both JVR and Raymond was considered at least decent two-way players before becoming Leafs. Except Kessel most of our forwards have gotten worse when it comes to defensive aptitude and work ethic. That's worrying.

I also think that you need to separate our season-long problems defensively and the fact that the same group of players imploded when the games mattered the most.

Otherwise I really agree, especially about Phaneuf. He had a great season up until the olympic break, and wasn't bad until the last 10 games or so. But those games seem to be the only thing people remember. However, unless he's so injured he can barely skate then putting out the kind of performances he has done when he's been needed the most should be unacceptable from your best defensemen.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'm not sure I 100% agree with you and everybody else saying our defense is weak. Partly because defense is a team effort and the worst culprits would be our forwards, but also because we spend so much time defending that even players that are good defensively are bound to screw up as they tire. Our defensemen often have to take minute-long shifts in their own zone, under constant pressure. That's how mistakes are done.

I think it would be very interesting to see how players individually would manage if they played in a more normal team and system. I have a sneaking feeling that most of our problems come from our horrible possession-game.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I would like to point out that both JVR and Raymond was considered at least decent two-way players before becoming Leafs. Except Kessel most of our forwards have gotten worse when it comes to defensive aptitude and work ethic. That's worrying.

I also think that you need to separate our season-long problems defensively and the fact that the same group of players imploded when the games mattered the most.

Otherwise I really agree, especially about Phaneuf. He had a great season up until the olympic break, and wasn't bad until the last 10 games or so. But those games seem to be the only thing people remember. However, unless he's so injured he can barely skate then putting out the kind of performances he has done when he's been needed the most should be unacceptable from your best defensemen.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'm not sure I 100% agree with you and everybody else saying our defense is weak. Partly because defense is a team effort and the worst culprits would be our forwards, but also because we spend so much time defending that even players that are good defensively are bound to screw up as they tire. Our defensemen often have to take minute-long shifts in their own zone, under constant pressure. That's how mistakes are done.

I think it would be very interesting to see how players individually would manage if they played in a more normal team and system. I have a sneaking feeling that most of our problems come from our horrible possession-game.

On the Leafs Raymond represent what we have to much of already which is transition players. Our team has a complete lack of cycle/board game in the offensive zone. Bolland going down (plus Clarkson completely sucking) ruined any chance of that happening this year.

I think our D group and team defence 5 on 5 actually was terrible long before this recent stretech even dating back to last season when we were 6th worst in 5 on 5 GA.

However, we were winning games last season and parts of this season because we were winning the special teams battles.

But with our PK plummeting from 2nd best last season to near bottom of the league this season + our PP drying up we stopped winning a lot of those games that we use to win even when we didn't deserve to.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

No Einstein...I didn't change anything on the defense because I had no idea of who they could add so I just included prospects we have in our system as a bare minimum. With the excepting of Bennett, I made a basic roster of who should be kept for the rebuild. Easy to criticize when you fail to include any valuable input... The one trade I included was Phaneuf and an 8th overall pick for the Oilers 3rd, which isn't that far-fetched. Your probably one of the most fantasy-land posters on this site so your reply to my post is beyond laughable.

You just have the entire internet at your disposal. Did you just get lazy?

 

[indigobuffalo]

I just wish this team could lose badly over the next 3-4 years and get three consecutive 1st OA picks and then be a dynamic juggernaut of a team with absolutely no problems and happy fans.

Just like Edmonton has done.

That really needs to be the benchmark of success for a club. All you have to do is just lose. C'mon guys, we can do this!

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

You just have the entire internet at your disposal. Did you just get lazy?

It's easy to pull names like Weber, Giordano, etc but those aren't realistic or worth it for a rebuilding team to acquire. I posted a core that could be open to changes from anyone. If you seriously are that bothered by the lack of defense...here

Kadri+Gardiner+Lupul+2 1sts for Weber...Is that realistic and what you wanted to see?

 

[MakeTheIronSing]

You don't build a leadership core. You build a winning team which builds leadership.

 

[StringsAttached]

Nobody on this squad is Captain material. The only candidate is Lupes and even that's a stretch.

Run with no captain, let someone step up.

 

[TootooTrain]

You don't build a leadership core. You build a winning team which builds leadership.

My thoughts aswell. Unless your name is Jonathan Toews or Steven Stamkos, games and events build leadership and character. It's not something you can really acquire by itself that will magically turn your entire roster into stable-handed vets.

 

[calcal798]

My thoughts aswell. Unless your name is Jonathan Toews or Steven Stamkos, games and events build leadership and character. It's not something you can really acquire by itself that will magically turn your entire roster into stable-handed vets.

Stellar point. I'd like to assume that the recent events this team has encountered this year and last year will definitely bring some character to our younger guys. Now its up to them to turn that into leadership.

Its one thing to sulk about having a collapse like we did, its another to use that as motivation to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

[ECanuck]

If they aren't going to blow it up entirely then it will be hard to fix things.

D is terrible. I'd go for Shea Weber from Nashville. Don't know what they'd want but I'd try with Kessel and Bozak. God know what else they might ask for I cringe.

Try to move Phaneuf for a young forward.

Get Stastny to fill the center role if young forward is winger.

 

[hotpaws]

I just wish this team could lose badly over the next 3-4 years and get three consecutive 1st OA picks and then be a dynamic juggernaut of a team with absolutely no problems and happy fans.

Just like Edmonton has done.

That really needs to be the benchmark of success for a club. All you have to do is just lose. C'mon guys, we can do this!

What the **** have we done other than lose , just because we haven't lost as much as the Oilers doesn't mean we've won .

 

[Stephen]

We just need a better ratio of hungry hard working players who want to pay the price for success and a couple more good guy greybeards to impart wisdom. And no Phaneuf.

 

[Wami]

You don't build a leadership core. You build a winning team which builds leadership.

Actually the reality is that you do both. I firmly believe every team or player needs veteran leadership to draw from in their careers. You've got your guys who lead by example and set a standard for professionalism, and you got your kids who learn from them and grow under them.

It's easy to sit here and say "just build a winning team", but as long as we continue to roll with this crew of potential winners but no veteran leadership, results will continue to fluctuate, our young guys will not develop quickly, etc. Few kids are the complete package who just ooze leadership and drive right out of the draft, and even then they have mentors - every star had them, book it.

Finally, acquisitions such as Bolland and Clarkson seem to fly directly in the face of your oversimplified logic, and (for better or worse) those were leadership and experience pickups by management.

Both experience AND vets/hard workers contribute to the growth of young leaders and star players.

 

[34]

Phaneuf needs to be moved out of Toronto before ANY relevant free agent would even consider coming.

Just trade Phaneuf and its an instant upgrade in leadership.

 

[Stephen]

Phaneuf needs to be moved out of Toronto before ANY relevant free agent would even consider coming.

Just trade Phaneuf and its an instant upgrade in leadership.

Tend to agree. He's a leadership black hole. Almost a bad seed in terms of confidence and dealing with pressure and being honest.

 

[Wami]

Tend to agree. He's a leadership black hole. Almost a bad seed in terms of confidence and dealing with pressure and being honest.

No kidding, give me angry post game scrums from Kessel, I want some frustration and passion out of our leader.

Dion is the most timid guy on the ice, that's fine if you're not the captain, but he just gets rag dolled too many times, takes stupid penalties, shows minimal passion unless he scores, hides behind refs... I'd love him as our #2d, but not for 8 mil and not with the C

Phaneuf after 8 game slide "we're not worried" .... **** off