WJC: Horrible team selection (Canada)

[Rancourt Fist Pump]

Where is all of this crap coming from? Just because people on TV say it, doesn't make it so. We scored more than anybody in the tournament, and by a long shot. There's more than one way to score goals in a team game, and Canada got it done in that regard. Was this the most talented team we could have iced? No. Did it hinder them in scoring? Absolutely not.

Canada played a style of hockey conducive to generating scoring chances through sustained offensive pressure by good old fashioned hard work and physicality. In the end it was our undoing, as the team was unable to sustain it's own pace over the course of 7 games. You could probably make the argument that the coaching staff chose to employ this strategy to disguise our teams real weakness...

Maybe we should take a look at our horrible team defense. Sweden and Russia exposed our defense for what it was in the round robin, and Russia really took advantage of it in the 3rd period last night by employing their own style of sustained pressure when Canada was running on fumes. Where we were contesting and harassing them at every corner in the 1st (and most of the 2nd), we were a step behind them in the 3rd when it really matters, and when you're chasing around a team that fast and skilled in crunch time, we seen what happens 1st hand. Couple that with our clear failure to maintain our own rigorous offensive attack, and we're starting to develop a lot more accurate picture of just exactly how we got beat last night. It really was the perfect s*@t storm and when things started to go sideways on us, the wheels truly fell off. We seemed to have trouble just putting together a string of good shifts, nevermind reversing the momentum of the Russians.

Perhaps instead of focusing on running up the score earlier in the tournament, the coaches and team should have been focused on executing an effective defensive system in order to supplement an efficient level of play later in the tournament, i.e: endurance. Crash and bang exacts a toll on all parties involved, and that's exactly why you can't employ it virtually exclusively over a prolonged stretch like Cameron chose to do. He's fortunate to have gotten as much out of his players as he did. In that regard, I'm proud of our kids.

As far as the goaltending went; what can you say, they were not good enough. If that's the best Canada has to offer then there's something wrong, but to point the finger at one position and lay blame for what happened last night on goaltending is just flat out ignoring the big picture.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

No Toffoli, No RNH, No Murphy, No Murray.

Everybody can play the name game. For all the WTF No Toffoli? posts, there's a kid the same age in the WHL putting up the same numbers named Ranford. Maybe the results would have been different, maybe they wouldn't. They could have been worse for that matter, nobody really knows, but one thing is for damn sure.....we didn't leave a Gretzky or Lindros off of this team because of their age. RNH, as talented as he is, doesn't even dominate in the WHL.

 

[Nordic*]

Of course, Canada only lost due to the team selection. Another country couldn't possibly be better...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Of course, Canada only lost due to the team selection. Another country couldn't possibly be better...

...it's good to see you Scandinavians are finally starting to recognize the truth!

 

[leafsfuture]

I love how people are complaining Toffolli wasnt given a shot, but no one is complaining that Pirri and Hishon got cut. Pirri and Hishon both play similar games to Toffoli and are both older, but they simply couldnt hack it at the junior camp. Whats to say Toffoli doesnt do the same.

Dan Cameron is a good coach, and made a strong team. The problem was that his big defensive guns Cowen, Despres, Gudbranson and Ellis couldnt get it done in crunch

 

[Carlton Orr*]

I love how people are complaining Toffolli wasnt given a shot, but no one is complaining that Pirri and Hishon got cut. Pirri and Hishon both play similar games to Toffoli and are both older, but they simply couldnt hack it at the junior camp. Whats to say Toffoli doesnt do the same.

Dan Cameron is a good coach, and made a strong team. The problem was that his big defensive guns Cowen, Despres, Gudbranson and Ellis couldnt get it done in crunch

huh? the d played pretty decent all tourney. Visentin couldn't save anything in the 3rd.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The problem was that his big defensive guns Cowen, Despres, Gudbranson and Ellis couldnt get it done in crunch

Why single only those 4 out? De Haan was on for 2 of the 5 goals. Barrie at least 1. Despres and Gudbranson 1.

 

[David]

Well, Hishon was one of my pre-selection camp favourites, but I guess if you look at it like they took Schwartz as a potential game-breaking offense-generating forward instead, it's just bad luck that Schwartz got hurt. And while I wanted Murphy there... I really have no complaints about Tyson Barrie, he played great and I don't think Murphy was going to do better. Ellis already gets the prime-time offensive responsbility, and Murphy wasn't going to give us a better 2-way game than what Barrie gave us.

I will fall back on my complaint that Stajcer is my OHL goalie of choice and nobody will agree with me that he should have been there.

I don't see any value in hindsighting the selections.

Both Murphy and Murray who are very mobile and rush the puck offensively, far out played all of Gudbranson, Barrie and Despres even DEFENSIVELY at the selection camp...but both were cut.

Why?

Esp. when Cameron was using Schwartz (until he got hurt), a forward on the point on the PP...on a defensive trapping team? This is simply inexcusable.

Both Murphy and Murray, esp. speedy Murphy, could have been used like Subban 2 years ago when they last won gold to give the slower skating Ellis more time and space. Instead, Ellis had to do everything himself. It was simply too much to ask anybody and it caught up to him in the end.

And this is NOT in hind sight. Go look up the selection camp thread, all been stated before 3 weeks ago.

Lastly, I know the whole collapse wasn't all his fault but did you notice whose brain fart caused the gold losing goal? Yep, None other than Nike's golden boy Gudbranson, who never should have made this team based on camp.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Of course, Canada only lost due to the team selection. Another country couldn't possibly be better...

QFT.

I've never understood why people act like in a winner take all final against a worthy opponent it should be considered a completely failure to lose.

 

[s7ark]

Of course, Canada only lost due to the team selection. Another country couldn't possibly be better...

People were questioning whether we had enough game breakers up front and speed on the back end right when the team was announced. This is a very valid thread topic

 

[Z-Diddy]

I put alot of faith into the scouts for our national program, and trust in their decisions pre-tournament. In hindsight, there will always be questions.

Roy seemed an interesting choice, given that his play was sub-par. But not knowing much of him prior to the tournament makes it impossible to pass judgement. He certainly must have earned his starting spot on the team somehow.

My concern, from the beginning, is the selection of Kassian. Not only did he not perform well offensively - which is speaking with the advantage of aforementioned hindsight - but he is a risk in the international game. We've seen it before with past agitator-types like Stefan Della Rovere or Jordin Tootoo. They can either bring great energy, or put games in jeopardy by taking penalties that they aren't used to getting in major junior. The international game is officiated differently, and big hits aren't always welcome - not to mention the tendency towards reactionary calls.

Kassian's suspension didn't cost Canada gold, obviously. But, in the cost/benefit game - should we continually risk putting this type of player on our roster? I always find alot of players step forward and play that desirable energy role in this tournament, even when not known for it. The selection of these borderline dirty players will always puzzle me.

Say wut? Kassian scored in each medal round game beside the gold, no love

 

[Habitantpeasoup]

Because they're Avalanche prospects right?

Olsen and Despres shouldn't have made it. Murphy and Murray should have. Couturier shouldn't have made it, RNH should have. Cameron wanted size but jesus we needed some speed too. There was almost "too much" size. This team was not balanced at all, especially the defense which was probably the slowest ever for Team Canada.

This also may piss off some people, but after this tourny I would have much rather had Scott Glennie than Louis Leblanc.

Leblanc was 4th in team scoring with 7 points in 7 games with no powerplay time...and was constantly flipped from line to line

 

[Nordic*]

People were questioning whether we had enough game breakers up front and speed on the back end right when the team was announced. This is a very valid thread topic

C'mon. Talking about not having the best team in the final against Russia is to totally discredit their gold.

"If we had other players Russia wouldn't have beat us". No one would bring this up if Canada had won, so it's just an excuse. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Habitantpeasoup]

C'mon. Talking about not having the best team in the final against Russia is to totally discredit their gold.

"If we had other players Russia wouldn't have beat us". No one would bring this up if Canada had won, so it's just an excuse. At least that's how I see it.

The whole team broke down from coaching to players..you know things aren't going well when you get a penalty for too many men on the ice...this happened 3 times in the 3rd period for the canadians but luckily although it didn't really matter they only got called for it once..

 

[s7ark]

C'mon. Talking about not having the best team in the final against Russia is to totally discredit their gold.

"If we had other players Russia wouldn't have beat us". No one would bring this up if Canada had won, so it's just an excuse. At least that's how I see it.

Full credit to Russia for not giving up, but that isn't what this thread is about.

Canada with RNH and Murphy is a much more skillful team and would have matched up better against the Russians and Swedes. We were too focused on beating the Americans(which we did easily) and built our team around that idea only. Obviously it was a mistake to overlook the skill across the Atlantic.

I hope Hockey Canada remembers that next year.

 

[Kevin Malone]

I put alot of faith into the scouts for our national program, and trust in their decisions pre-tournament. In hindsight, there will always be questions.

Roy seemed an interesting choice, given that his play was sub-par. But not knowing much of him prior to the tournament makes it impossible to pass judgement. He certainly must have earned his starting spot on the team somehow.

My concern, from the beginning, is the selection of Kassian. Not only did he not perform well offensively - which is speaking with the advantage of aforementioned hindsight - but he is a risk in the international game. We've seen it before with past agitator-types like Stefan Della Rovere or Jordin Tootoo. They can either bring great energy, or put games in jeopardy by taking penalties that they aren't used to getting in major junior. The international game is officiated differently, and big hits aren't always welcome - not to mention the tendency towards reactionary calls.

Kassian's suspension didn't cost Canada gold, obviously. But, in the cost/benefit game - should we continually risk putting this type of player on our roster? I always find alot of players step forward and play that desirable energy role in this tournament, even when not known for it. The selection of these borderline dirty players will always puzzle me.

Kassian should have never gotten suspended for 2 games to begin with. He is nowhere near the reason why Canada lost. This team could have used more guys like Kassian striking fear into the competition.

 

[CharlieGirl]

People were questioning whether we had enough game breakers up front and speed on the back end right when the team was announced. This is a very valid thread topic

And some people got ripped for commenting on it at the time.

It is what it is, and had Canada not sat back and played Cameron hockey in the last half of the game, this wouldn't have been a topic for discussion today.

 

[canucksfan]

Kassian should have never gotten suspended for 2 games to begin with. He is nowhere near the reason why Canada lost. This team could have used more guys like Kassian striking fear into the competition.

Kassian is a plug. He lacks skill and speed. Remember when Canada wasn't winning gold? We lacked skill and speed. Canadians need to be more focused on developing skills and using them in the game, rather than developing morons that try to hit everything that moves which takes themselves out of position.The Russians and Swedes took advantage of this. They are faster and more skilled.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

It looked at one point that it wouldn't come back and bite us with a 3-0 lead to start the 3rd. From that point Russian speed and skill took over and made our slow defense look foolish. When they scored the 4th the team did not have enough skill to come back.

Why do we have players like Olson and Cowen when we could have had Murphy? Why do we have player like Eakin and Ashton when we could have RNH? Very puzzling player selection the last few years. Our slow defense and lack of skill was exposed. We could have used an elite talent like Seguin last year too.

--
I do not agree with your opinion on the team selection. That team was 20 minutes away from gold and were flying all tournament, BUT

In that second period, Russian ajusted with a winger playing behind Canada's D and started with a better execution than the Canadians. The second half of the second period we could smell that the tempo was changing side. OUr execution was not there, we were losing 1X1 battles and our PP was atrocious in that last 10 minutes. Instead of having russian lying on the ice we started to see Canadians.

I was happy the score awas still 3-0 after two and thought that we were going to be ok. In front 3-0 the Russian still managed to have alot of 2X1 and 3X2 and also 3X1 and was entering the canadian D with alot of speed, but I thougt that de 2 nd break would give the coaching staff time to grit and challenge their player and make the ajustments needed.

But the story was different:

The Canadian staff cut their bench, concentration was lacking. After the first goal we could feel that something was still not going well.

The rest is story. Russian were faster, more concentrated, plenty of confidence and their execution way better.

I beleive that the Canadian staff noted that their players were lacking intensity (fatigue, stress..?) in the second period and hoped that they would be capable of holding on. I think that between the 2nd and the 3 rd something was not done in the locker room.

I beleive that the bench was cut much to early, cause that same line up did put you in front 3-0. I still beleive that a time out was to be taken after the first goal and that Canada was not capable of ajusting himself to the new Russian high winger. In front 3-0, throw the puck behind the opponents D and forecheck with one player.

In my opinion the time out was taken to late. I think a goaltender change should have been done especially after the second goal.

In my opinion, Canada is usually strong in goal, intensity, under pressure and excellent caoching management. It was the case this year -- until the last 10 minutes of the second period and all the third.

That said, I am very desappointed with the result, but proud of our Junior Hockey team. They played with heart. I was also proud of our canadians fans. I am still happy with our canadian staff even with my thougths on the last game, because they were capable of placing the team in a position to win. Finally 10 years in a row with a medal. In the final for a long time, our kids played with pride.

For me --- Hockey is still CANADA.

 

[Buggsy]

Kassian is a plug. He lacks skill and speed. Remember when Canada wasn't winning gold? We lacked skill and speed. Canadians need to be more focused on developing skills and using them in the game, rather than developing morons that try to hit everything that moves which takes themselves out of position.The Russians and Swedes took advantage of this. They are faster and more skilled.

We had, what, 7 player's not playing because they were in the nhl? Yeah we need to really start developing some skill...

 

[Minister of Offence]

We had, what, 7 player's not playing because they were in the nhl? Yeah we need to really start developing some skill...

Actually we should hold back a bit so that guys like Skinner and Seguin jusssst miss the NHL at 18.

 

[le_sean]

I think what hurt them the most is the lack of a true top pairing on defence. The years they won they always had that go-to pairing used in all situations. Phaneuf-Weber, Staal-Parent, Alzner-Hickey. Even in Ottawa when the go-to pairing of Hickey-Teubert was mediocre, Aulie-Myers emerged.

All they had this year was Ryan Ellis who I thought was great. Olsen was supposed to be the guy, but sucked. The others like Cowen and Gudbranson had their moments but in the end were just average. You can even say the same about last year, although losing Hamonic for the Gold Medal game really hurt.

 

[hammerwielder]

C'mon. Talking about not having the best team in the final against Russia is to totally discredit their gold.

"If we had other players Russia wouldn't have beat us". No one would bring this up if Canada had won, so it's just an excuse. At least that's how I see it.

I have to agree, and furthermore it discredits the efforts and accomplishments of the team that did battle out there for Canada. They lost? Let's throw them under the bus now.

Where was this thread during the tournament if the team selection was so flawed?

As someone who went to three of Canada's games, trust me, this team had more than enough talent to win this thing. As did Sweden, the US and Russia. Fact is that the margin between these teams is narrow, and on any given night...

Fact is also that Canada beat every one of the other major contenders at some point during this tournament and the pre-tournament (1-1 record against Russia and Sweden, 1-0 against Finland, the US and the Czechs. A record of 5W and 2L, with one of those losses coming in a shootout, is not bad against these elite teams. Finally, Canada was in control for 40 minutes of the gold medal game as well, so the final 20 minutes had nothing to do with team selection. This is little more than an exercise in sour grapes. How about giving some credit to the Russians for elevating their game.

 

[canucksfan]

We had, what, 7 player's not playing because they were in the nhl? Yeah we need to really start developing some skill...

My comment was more directed to the idea of bringing more players like Zack Kassian to the tournament. Canada needs to bring more skilled players to the tournament.

 

[tsnTpoint]

I was disgusted when this team was announced due to its lack of skill. I am disgusted just as much today.

Big, Strong, and lack of high end skill is what this team was built on. Im sorry but I like the "little guys" with skill, not the big brutes who just crash and bang.

The team needed a better mixture of the "skill guys" with the big guys.
Hopefully Canada has learned that "big and strong" doesn't mean best.

I found myself cheering for the Russians as the game went on due to their evident surplus of "skilled" players compared to Canada's.