Honest Question About Claude Julien & Bruins

[Cole Caulifield]

B's fan here. I think what happened was that Boston has been on the short end of power play opportunities lately and the frustration boiled over. He picked the easiest target Subban (even though he didn't dive during the game), instead of criticizing the officials directly. I think this was mostly intended to get the refs and league thinking about the penalty disparity overall not just for yesterday's game.

The truth is that if the refs were to penalize your team for all of the goonery + all of the regular penalties, your team would be in the box the whole game. The bruins are the kings of exploiting the horrible reffing of the NHL. Your coach and your GM should really shut the hell up recognize that they're indeed quite lucky.

 

[habtastic]

Powerplays are not supposed to be even. When you break the rules, you're supposed to get called.

Montreal gets a lot of powerplays because they are one of the fastest teams in the league. The penalties they draw are hooking and holding calls for the most part because the other team can't match their speed.

It's not supposed to be even at the end of the game.

Word

 

[SB164]

Intent to injure ? Where ?

Nonsense. Chara has never done anything in the slightest with the intent to injure.

Start from 0:23:

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Powerplays are not supposed to be even. When you break the rules, you're supposed to get called.

Montreal gets a lot of powerplays because they are one of the fastest teams in the league. The penalties they draw are hooking and holding calls for the most part because the other team can't match their speed.

It's not supposed to be even at the end of the game.

Unfortunately the refs haven't gotten that memo, and they do try to even the game all the time. We have the most PP time in the league, but also the second most PK time in the league.

 

[Kriss E]

Everyone in the NHL knows that Emelin has a metal plate in his skull. Chara included.

Chara knew what he was doing when he went after Emelin. He wanted to end his season.

But feel free to make excuses for Chara.

Wouldn't go as far as to say he wants to end his season, but the point of a fight is to punch your opponent's face and hurt him. So, there's always an intent to injure when going in a fight.

 

[dualradius]

I'm a "west" fan, and while not a habs fan, the bruins are dirty and their coach is now a whiner. To accuse a team of embellishing at all when the bruins play as dirty as they do, is borderline criminal.

The league should come down hard on julien for his comments.

 

[Analyzer*]

Everyone in the NHL knows that Emelin has a metal plate in his skull. Chara included.

Chara knew what he was doing when he went after Emelin. He wanted to end his season.

But feel free to make excuses for Chara.

I thought you meant somewhere else in that game.

We should be use to players going after him. Malone did last year.

 

[Whitesnake]

Thing is, how about being aware of the consequences that your gestures might provoke? We all joke about Chara not knowing about Emelin,s plate, and frankly, I love those "but Chara didn't know..." jokes. But if Chara had to know.....do we ALSO have to know that if you go after their players, chances are some of them will lose it and come after you to beat you? Same with the Bourque-Orr incident...we all know who Colton freakin Orr is, if you go at him and grab him, don't you know that in the heat of a moment, he migth very well punch you? Does that excuse the gestures? Absolutely not. But will those gestures stop? Absolutely not either so try to protect yourself better and know who's out there.

I mean, you walk in the middle of the night on a road where you know there's a repeat drinking and driving offender....Even if we know that you can't drink and drive, instead of just hoping it doesn't happen, wouldn't you protect yourself and try to walk with facing cars instead of having them in your back?

My problem though with all those "having to fight" is that whenever a player hits you legally but hard, you suddenly have to fight somebody else for some ****ing stupid reasons. Whenever it's legal, you shouldn't have to fight. I'd be EXTREMELY hard if I was a referee on the guys that starts a scrum after a legal hit. But if you hit somebody and it's borderline....AND it's against a star player...AND the player stays down....you HAVE to know that somebody is looking for you....ESPECIALLY when it,s against the Bruins.

But one thing has to stop. Can people understand that fighting is an art? That guys that hits hard, are not essentially great fighters. And it's not because you can't fight, that you shouldn't hit hard. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Analyzer*]

Thing is, how about being aware of the consequences that your gestures might provoke? We all joke about Chara not knowing about Emelin,s plate, and frankly, I love those "but Chara didn't know..." jokes. But if Chara had to know.....do we ALSO have to know that if you go after their players, chances are some of them will lose it and come after you to beat you? Same with the Bourque-Orr incident...we all know who Colton freakin Orr is, if you go at him and grab him, don't you know that in the heat of a moment, he migth very well punch you? Does that excuse the gestures? Absolutely not. But will those gestures stop? Absolutely not either so try to protect yourself better and know who's out there.

I mean, you walk in the middle of the night on a road where you know there's a repeat drinking and driving offender....Even if we know that you can't drink and drive, instead of just hoping it doesn't happen, wouldn't you protect yourself and try to walk with facing cars instead of having them in your back?

My problem though with all those "having to fight" is that whenever a player hits you legally but hard, you suddenly have to fight somebody else for some ****ing stupid reasons. Whenever it's legal, you shouldn't have to fight. I'd be EXTREMELY hard if I was a referee on the guys that starts a scrum after a legal hit. But if you hit somebody and it's borderline....AND it's against a star player...AND the player stays down....you HAVE to know that somebody is looking for you....ESPECIALLY when it,s against the Bruins.

But one thing has to stop. Can people understand that fighting is an art? That guys that hits hard, are not essentially great fighters. And it's not because you can't fight, that you shouldn't hit hard. Makes no sense to me.

Volchenkov hits hard and can't fight worth ****.
Mattias Norstrom could hit, but he sure as **** couldn't fight.
Hell, Subban can hit and he can't really fight.

What Chara did was within his right.

(Sorry, didn't find the non-Edwards version)


And Boychuk missed, but White did his job.

Is it not the same ?

 

[Whitesnake]

Volchenkov hits hard and can't fight worth ****.
Mattias Norstrom could hit, but he sure as **** couldn't fight.
Hell, Subban can hit and he can't really fight.

What Chara did was within his right.

(Sorry, didn't find the non-Edwards version)


And Boychuk missed, but White did his job.

Is it not the same ?

Not sure what your point is...agree or disagree with me? Your examples are dead on and prooves my point. You don't have to be a great fighter to be a hard hitter. And on that vid, if Boychuk gives a solid bodycheck to PK, I don't see why we would have went to Boychuk. Yet, I suspect White thinking that it was a knee on knee, hence a cheapshot, hence the response. So I have no problem with White as well. I also already mentioned that I somewhat have no problem with what Chara did. I mean, when you're responding, you don't have to check the severity of the injury. You act and ask the question later. But you need to be accountable, you have to respond and instigate, well be punish for it.

 

[Analyzer*]

Not sure what your point is...agree or disagree with me? Your examples are dead on and prooves my point. You don't have to be a great fighter to be a hard hitter. And on that vid, if Boychuk gives a solid bodycheck to PK, I don't see why we would have went to Boychuk. Yet, I suspect White thinking that it was a knee on knee, hence a cheapshot, hence the response. So I have no problem with White as well. I also already mentioned that I somewhat have no problem with what Chara did. I mean, when you're responding, you don't have to check the severity of the injury. You act and ask the question later. But you need to be accountable, you have to respond and instigate, well be punish for it.

Agreeing and trying to further push your point with the video.

 

[Whitesnake]

Agreeing and trying to further push your point with the video.

Okay. Sorry....getting late....tough day.

 

[Analyzer*]

Okay. Sorry....getting late....tough day.

I apparently don't know how the draft rounds work, so it's probably me trying to explain myself.

 

[Kimota]

I think it's a whole "doctrine" if you will, a way of being, an ingrained philosophy that Julien has instilled in Boston and he has his whole team buying into it. I'm not sure if he believe himself in that whole bully stuff but I think the main concept is this:

Have as much players willing to play with grit on your squad, guys with fire, guys with chips on their shoulders and then create a "everbody is against us" mentality. It's a bit like the Maffia if you will. I've heard a lot of coach using that concept "Us against the World". Aparantly Jacques Demers did something similar in 93 when coaching the Habs on their cup run. It succeeded in giving them more determination.

The OP has a good point in that is it just psychological warfare that Julien is saying those things or is he believing it? Maybe Julien is starting to believe his own bull, maybe?

 

[Kimota]

Thing is, how about being aware of the consequences that your gestures might provoke? We all joke about Chara not knowing about Emelin,s plate, and frankly, I love those "but Chara didn't know..." jokes. But if Chara had to know.....do we ALSO have to know that if you go after their players, chances are some of them will lose it and come after you to beat you? Same with the Bourque-Orr incident...we all know who Colton freakin Orr is, if you go at him and grab him, don't you know that in the heat of a moment, he migth very well punch you? Does that excuse the gestures? Absolutely not. But will those gestures stop? Absolutely not either so try to protect yourself better and know who's out there.

I mean, you walk in the middle of the night on a road where you know there's a repeat drinking and driving offender....Even if we know that you can't drink and drive, instead of just hoping it doesn't happen, wouldn't you protect yourself and try to walk with facing cars instead of having them in your back?

My problem though with all those "having to fight" is that whenever a player hits you legally but hard, you suddenly have to fight somebody else for some ****ing stupid reasons. Whenever it's legal, you shouldn't have to fight. I'd be EXTREMELY hard if I was a referee on the guys that starts a scrum after a legal hit. But if you hit somebody and it's borderline....AND it's against a star player...AND the player stays down....you HAVE to know that somebody is looking for you....ESPECIALLY when it,s against the Bruins.

But one thing has to stop. Can people understand that fighting is an art? That guys that hits hard, are not essentially great fighters. And it's not because you can't fight, that you shouldn't hit hard. Makes no sense to me.

I don't have a problem with a fight after a dirty hit but I don't like the image of an elephant going after a puppy. Somehow it goes way beyond any sort of "defending your teamate" category. Emelin has never fought in his life, it's like Joe Sakic getting assauled, basically.

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't have a problem with a fight after a dirty hit but I don't like the image of an elephant going after a puppy. Somehow it goes way beyond any sort of "defending your teamate" category. Emelin has never fought in his life, it's like Joe Sakic getting assauled, basically.

True. But it shouldn't make the puppy immune for retaliation if he deserve it. Like I keep saying, I always hate being obligated to fight even if you hit somebody hard. At worst, take the number and hit him the same way. They say it's really painful to crosscheck somebody in the ribs...well Chara could have went to him and do the exact same thing. You have to imagine that if it hurts there...it will hurt more when administrated by Chara. Thing is, Boston retaliates often by fighting. And you just have to be aware of that. No need to wake up the sleeping giant. Play hard. Don't change your game. But don,t overdo it as well. Or if you want to do it...well be ready for the consequences. Just like the Bruins have to be ready for their own consequences as far as being punished for their actions. it's all about accountability.

 

[habfaninvictoria]

I agree. I'm just giving you the backround situation. This was just a case of frustration.

If you want to give background it can't be one sided.... how bout the slash by Chara on Eller early in the game after a whistle... Takes 2 to dance.... Habs are more than willing to own up to our side...B's just have a miopic view of reality...

 

[THE HOFF]

I thought seguin went down easily. its pretty laughable to hear Julien's post game interview. so silly.

I don't think the habs embelish the hits, they got called for it 2-3 times in a ridiculous way ... I remember prust getting called for diving after getting hit in the back it was hilarious.

But the bruins are totally delusional. They got away with such BS over the years that even if the habs did dive, and they did not, it still wouldn't come close to make up for all they got away with. suckerpunches/dirty hits/crosschecks to the face that went uncalled ... the list goes on forever. If they don't realize that they have been underpunished by the refs, they are even dumber than I thought they were, because if refs start calling eveything, they're never going to have 5 players on the ice.

 

[Hackett]

I think its part tactical and part delusion/frustration . We didn't have Claude talking garbage in Montreal, but if you think about it, it makes sense. If he pulled this act in Montreal, the local media would roast him, and he would lose all credibility, whereas in Boston, the media will simply wave the pom poms or not dare to offer a different opinion. It's a difference between the media and their interactions with the team in their respective cities.

 

[waffledave]

I think it's a whole "doctrine" if you will, a way of being, an ingrained philosophy that Julien has instilled in Boston and he has his whole team buying into it. I'm not sure if he believe himself in that whole bully stuff but I think the main concept is this:

Have as much players willing to play with grit on your squad, guys with fire, guys with chips on their shoulders and then create a "everbody is against us" mentality. It's a bit like the Maffia if you will. I've heard a lot of coach using that concept "Us against the World". Aparantly Jacques Demers did something similar in 93 when coaching the Habs on their cup run. It succeeded in giving them more determination.

The OP has a good point in that is it just psychological warfare that Julien is saying those things or is he believing it? Maybe Julien is starting to believe his own bull, maybe?

Probably correct, though it's too bad because it makes the Bruins look like a bunch of massive whiners.

And their fans are in denial about it. That's the best part. You would not believe the number of PMs I got from Bruins fans for the post I made on the first page of this thread.

They are oblivious. They don't see it as whining, they think of this pissing and moaning as heroic.

 

[Timelord]

Probably correct, though it's too bad because it makes the Bruins look like a bunch of massive whiners.

And their fans are in denial about it. That's the best part. You would not believe the number of PMs I got from Bruins fans for the post I made on the first page of this thread.

They are oblivious. They don't see it as whining, they think of this pissing and moaning as heroic.

From Wikipedia:

Cognitive dissonance theory explains human behavior by positing that people have a bias to seek consonance between their expectations and reality. According to Festinger, people engage in a process he termed "dissonance reduction", which can be achieved in one of three ways: lowering the importance of one of the discordant factors, adding consonant elements, or changing one of the dissonant factors. This bias sheds light on otherwise puzzling, irrational, and even destructive behavior.

We are all subject to this, more or less, and I think all sports fans make that more obvious. Boston fans, particularly at this point in time, are accustomed to having the top team and now that belief of supremacy is being challenged.

So we see posts such as "it's only one game"(lowering importance) and "they're a bunch of divers, sissies" (adding a consonant factor) and"it's the refs, we was robbed"(changing a dissonant factor)

 

[Strat]

My problem with this whole thing is that coaches like Julien have double-standards. Bruins players *should* be able to make all kinds of dirty plays without getting called but if an opponent does the same, the whining begins. You can't have it both ways. Either suck it up or teach your players some discipline. It's one or the other.

Happens all the time and it's what drives me nuts about coaches like him. Torts is another example. He can get five non-calls but will whine like a baby if/when his team gets one penalty. It's annoying and from my perspective, it makes it very hard to take whatever they say seriously.

The amount of immaturity that people like that display publicly continues to amaze me.

 

[MauditGreek*]

Imagine

Can you imagine how bad a coach like this would get totally roasted in Montreal. That's the beauty of having integrity. In Montreal if your team is playing bad, you will know about it. If your team is cheating/diving you will know about it, if your coach is full of ***** you will know about it.

I love Montreal

 

[teh doors]

Chris Nilan live on TSN 690. Wow I love that guy.

Hey man what kind of stuff did Nilan have to say? I would way rather read the media write articles from people who have valid opinions. Not frustrated and idiotic coaches right after a loss..

 

[Habskrieg]

Sure we got players who embellish. We're not particularly proud of it. But we recognize that it's somewhat part of the game and necessary. And you know it's true because all the other teams also embellish their behaviors. So do the bruins. We know our players dive, we aren't deluded. We also don't go around publicly *****ing about the other teams after a loss. Bruins have a lot more embellishers than just Marchand, he just so happens to come up more often because of how ridiculously obvious he is.

The big whiny bruins have spoken some of the same old cry me wolf material, yet again. Unimpressed. Quite frankly, I'm not even surprised. It's become a habit of theirs. They've made a reputation of being bratty bully. When they do win, they won't say a thing. But when they lose, they'll disregard anything they've done and just focus on the whining about their opponents. Typical, Boston typical.