Rumor: Holmgren chose Luke Schenn over Yandle? Ouch.
- Thread starter Damaged Goods
- Start date
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
No way it was JVR for Yandle straight up. A coyotes fan on the main boards said he remembered rumors and it was JVR plus. Obviously Homer wasn't comfortable with the plus.
Btw this is from Tim P so...
Btw this is from Tim P so...
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flyguy
Sean Cubeturier
The only way I can see Homer taking Schenn instead of Yandle, is that he still had hopes of resigning Carle for some reason, and wanted to get a more defensive minded dman back for JVR.
Damaged Goods
Registered User
It's not hindsight, it's just finding out about it. Yandle was way better than Schenn 2009-2012.
That could be what it was. Still not a good idea to turn down better value.
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
- Jan 17, 2004
- 71,287
- 48,240
Most of the rumors centered around two forwards minimum for Yandle. An Elliotte Friedman text from weeks prior to the eventual trade was what was often considered to be the primary focus of any conversation:
B. Schenn, Couturier, JVR and/or some combo was the point of refusal at one point during said rumors.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
We had Bryzgalov in net. The popular excuse was that the D wasn't protecting him enough. Schenn was more of the stay at home D Homer was going after. Yandle wasn't/isn't, and was also going to cost more.
Probably should have gone with Yandle anyways, if price could've been reduced, since the problem was Bryz, not the defense.
Probably should have gone with Yandle anyways, if price could've been reduced, since the problem was Bryz, not the defense.
cheesesteakarmor
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2009
- 2,692
- 0
Eh, Yandle can break out but is soft on D, right? So we'd gripe about him the same way we do about Streit, and we'd be lacking one of our quality forwards to boot.
I think this is overblown, to be honest. Lots of deals don't happen, freaking out about them long after the fact is doing little good, especially since we have no idea what other deals or contingencies may have been in place.
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
I'm guessing that the idea of the brothers Schenn pushing each sibling's potential to fruition was just too much for old Homer to pass on... Also, I too am not taking the rumor about the offer request of only JvR being gospel.
It also must be remembered that at the time of the trade both Luke and JvR were considered players that had not met their potential -- JvR showing signs of dominance but only for stretches and was inconsistent at best -- I believe Yandle was further along and JvR was not considered on a level field as him in development and reaching his potential... he was more of a gamble. JvR and Luke were equal gambles whose teams felt that a change of scenery was required and that they could be better with their Organization... It must also be remembered that most experts feel that D-Men take longer to develop than Forwards. Taking into consideration JvR's past inconsistency and the more time it takes to have a D-man reach maturity, I would not at this time close the book and say that Toronto won the trade hands down... I would wait until their prime years with the teams are complete to decide on the outcome. That said, if JvR continues as he has this season and Luke doesn't step it up... it certainly will not have been a good deal for the Flyers.
My guess is that Homer felt the deal with Toronto was a better all around fit for the Flyers... and we can only guess on the other offers and their details that Homer had on the table to consider.
It also must be remembered that at the time of the trade both Luke and JvR were considered players that had not met their potential -- JvR showing signs of dominance but only for stretches and was inconsistent at best -- I believe Yandle was further along and JvR was not considered on a level field as him in development and reaching his potential... he was more of a gamble. JvR and Luke were equal gambles whose teams felt that a change of scenery was required and that they could be better with their Organization... It must also be remembered that most experts feel that D-Men take longer to develop than Forwards. Taking into consideration JvR's past inconsistency and the more time it takes to have a D-man reach maturity, I would not at this time close the book and say that Toronto won the trade hands down... I would wait until their prime years with the teams are complete to decide on the outcome. That said, if JvR continues as he has this season and Luke doesn't step it up... it certainly will not have been a good deal for the Flyers.
My guess is that Homer felt the deal with Toronto was a better all around fit for the Flyers... and we can only guess on the other offers and their details that Homer had on the table to consider.
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Damaged Goods
Registered User
Terrible goaltending is actually a reason to take the better defensive player. You only want to reduce the overall number of shot events if you're expecting to lose the Sh% battle.
rokkinman139
Registered User
Schenn is also a right handed defenseman. After the Flyers got eliminated in 2011, the beat writers ran that into the ground, saying how we needed a right handed shot on the backend. Whether or not that played into it isn't for me to say, but that could also have been a factor
Embiid
Off IR for now
IF...AND A BIG IF...this is true then shame on Holmgren although my understanding at the time was that Phoenix was asking for Coots but asking and receiving are two different things. It's possible they were willing to trade Yandle for JVR 1 for 1 but I'm a bit skeptical. However, I do believe that Holmgren did have tunnel vision when it came to Schenn. As I noted ..JVR was a consequence of Bryz and Holmgren as well as Snider believing Bryz was actually a good goalie but needed to be "protected" more with stay at home D and Lavi altering his system. To me they just didn't want to admit they made a huge mistake and they wound up doubling down on it until they got their get out of jail free/amnesty card....
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Yeah, true. I retract my comment about going after Yandle anyways (assuming reduced price) because at the time I doubt anybody knew what the buyout situation would be; I didn't account for that. Bryz was the forseeable future, and shoring up the leaking works were a priority...the sieve was unlikely to be going anywhere at the time and he needed as much protection as humanly possible.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
Panotch is so far out of touch with the sport he covers I have trouble believing anything he says. The fool probably couldn't even tell you anything about Yandle other than the team he plays for.
Also that tweet from Friedman should put this rumor to rest even though he's a national guy.
Also that tweet from Friedman should put this rumor to rest even though he's a national guy.
Harold Bingo
what
-Bill Meltzer
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=45992
Between these two quotes from reliable sources, I'd say this rumor is bunk.
rokkinman139
Registered User
StoneHands
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2013
- 6,608
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I think it was more like, they didnt want to trade him and that they would need to be blown away with an offer so that's what it would take. Sometimes the value of a player to a specific team is much higher than the value of the actual player.
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
BernieParent
In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
TheKingPin
Registered User
Yea like a lot of you have said it was not just for JVR and JVR was not the JVR he is now. He was worth a lot was. Good on Toronto for giving him a chance. But if we had given them
Schenn and JVR and a pick or couts at that time like they wanted we would have lost that trade too. At least this way we didn't lose those guys plus schenn is still young and I could see him settling into a shutdown role as he moves along.
Schenn and JVR and a pick or couts at that time like they wanted we would have lost that trade too. At least this way we didn't lose those guys plus schenn is still young and I could see him settling into a shutdown role as he moves along.
tymed
Registered User
Another fabricated story that will be treated as fact to back up the anti-Holmgren bias...
Other reports from the time this was going on say the price was steep, but one comment from a hack years later is being taken as truth. JVR+, what's the plus? Read? Simmonds?
Other reports from the time this was going on say the price was steep, but one comment from a hack years later is being taken as truth. JVR+, what's the plus? Read? Simmonds?
tymed
Registered User
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