Movies: Hollywood sexual harassment ( Russell Brand facing multiple allegations)

[ThePhoenixx]

No means no. This should be chiseled in stone.

Now some people in this thread are stating that saying nothing means no too? Do I need a woman to sign a waiver beforehand to be safe? Do I have to stop at each level and ask if I can continue or should I just say screw it and let the woman do all the work. Essentially become a "dead lay". However, does that mean she then has to ask permission to continue?

I'm also curious. I've been grabbed/stroked by many women in the past, even kissed before I gave permission. What should I do about these incidents? Should I find these women and try to have them charged? I know life was different back then. We went to bush parties and actually mingled with other people. I guess I'll just let let it go and continue on with my life.

 

[Pilky01]

I'm also curious. I've been grabbed/stroked by many women in the past, even kissed before I gave permission. What should I do about these incidents?

Well did you feel threatened or taken advantage of?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Well did you feel threatened or taken advantage of?

Certainly didn't give my permission. You don't expect to just get grabbed. The only time I was grabbed by a guy it was a little more jarring. He was really drunk though so I let it go.

I look at it as something that happens sometimes. Not everyone has great social skills and alcohol certainly doesn't help. Threatened? Isn't that something only women feel? I doubt many men feel threatened by such acts when they are committed by women. Maybe a little violated and a little complimented, but that's it.

 

[izlez]

Certainly didn't give my permission. You don't expect to just get grabbed. The only time I was grabbed by a guy it was a little more jarring. He was really drunk though so I let it go.

I look at it as something that happens sometimes. Not everyone has great social skills and alcohol certainly doesn't help. Threatened? Isn't that something only women feel? I doubt many men feel threatened by such acts when they are committed by women. Maybe a little violated and a little complimented, but that's it.

What if they weren't a little drunk?
What if they were your boss?
What if you WERE a woman?

Seems weird that you're going to acknowledge that there is a line, but make broad sarcastic comments about waivers because someone else's line might be different than yours.

and then we have,
"I look at it as something that happens sometimes."
Yeah. That's exactly what we're trying to get past. Accepting sexual assault as something that "just happens". It's called progress in society. The way something is isn't right because "that's how they did it in my day"

 

[ThePhoenixx]

What if they weren't a little drunk?
What if they were your boss?
What if you WERE a woman?

Seems weird that you're going to acknowledge that there is a line, but make broad sarcastic comments about waivers because someone else's line might be different than yours.

and then we have,
"I look at it as something that happens sometimes."
Yeah. That's exactly what we're trying to get past. Accepting sexual assault as something that "just happens". It's called progress in society. The way something is isn't right because "that's how they did it in my day"

Sadly, this is the response I expected. I appreciated the first. I have gathered from some of the responses in this thread lately that no means no isn't enough anymore. That it's also a one-way street. What if you were a woman!!!!!

The sad thing is that all you are doing is alienating people now. Just as the radical man-hating feminists from a bygone era are nearly extinct now. I'm agreeing with the no means no and that true "power over" harassment should be dealt with every time.

Now you are preaching that if a guy makes a pass at you or does something kind of stupid (yes, drunk people do stupid stuff) and you don't like it then it's time to lay charges! Grow up. This new line in the sand starts to paint women as being vindictive and extremely weak willed and emotionally fragile.

Somehow I don't think that matters to some people as long as they can "get him".

 

[izlez]

Sadly, this is the response I expected. I appreciated the first. I have gathered from some of the responses in this thread lately that no means no isn't enough anymore. That it's also a one-way street. What if you were a woman!!!!!

The sad thing is that all you are doing is alienating people now. Just as the radical man-hating feminists from a bygone era are nearly extinct now. I'm agreeing with the no means no and that true "power over" harassment should be dealt with every time.

Now you are preaching that if a guy makes a pass at you or does something kind of stupid (yes, drunk people do stupid stuff) and you don't like it then it's time to lay charges! Grow up. This new line in the sand starts to paint women as being vindictive and extremely weak willed and emotionally fragile.

Somehow I don't think that matters to some people as long as they can "get him".

I was only forced to say something along the lines of "what if you were a woman?" because you said things like:
" Threatened? Isn't that something onlywomen feel? I doubt many men feel threatened by such acts when they are committed by women. Maybe a little violated"

You framed it so that men can't get sexually assaulted, and that YOU would suck it up when YOU were sexually violated because that's what men do. So I asked YOU.

Of course in society as a whole, it doesn't matter your gender. Of course men can be sexually harassed and assaulted. If you have a criminally sexual act committed against you, you can press charges, and you probably should. Because you chose to look the other way doesn't mean something criminal hasn't happened

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I was only forced to say something along the lines of "what if you were a woman?" because you said things like:
" Threatened? Isn't that something onlywomen feel? I doubt many men feel threatened by such acts when they are committed by women. Maybe a little violated"

You framed it so that men can't get sexually assaulted, and that YOU would suck it up when YOU were sexually violated because that's what men do. So I asked YOU.

Of course in society as a whole, it doesn't matter your gender. Of course men can be sexually harassed and assaulted. If you have a criminally sexual act committed against you, you can press charges, and you probably should. Because you chose to look the other way doesn't mean something criminal hasn't happened

So you don't like the truth? Most men don't feel threatened if a woman strokes their chest in a bar. That's just reality.

To say differently is just not true. To say differently is confirmation bias and projecting one's own feelings on another.

Take the example of the woman who claimed that Trump leaned in and kissed her without her permission. She was trotted out in front of the media by people with an agenda and it was then reported that she went for therapy to deal with the traumatic experience.

Then advocates claim that more women should be CO's. Would you want a CO who needs to go to intense therapy because some guy leaned in and kissed them? These "advocates" are womens worst enemy but they know the right language to get people riled up and divided and not really thinking straight. They are more like Trump than they might want to admit.

 

[izlez]

So you don't like the truth? Most men don't feel threatened if a woman strokes their chest in a bar. That's just reality.

To say differently is just not true. To say differently is confirmation bias and projecting one's own feelings on another.

Take the example of the woman who claimed that Trump leaned in and kissed her without her permission. She was trotted out in front of the media by people with an agenda and it was then reported that she went for therapy to deal with the traumatic experience.

Then advocates claim that more women should be CO's. Would you want a CO who needs to go to intense therapy because some guy leaned in and kissed them? These "advocates" are womens worst enemy but they know the right language to get people riled up and divided and not really thinking straight. They are more like Trump than they might want to admit.

I see what your saying on the Trump thing.

I'll say that that is one that got highly politicized because it's Trump. Everything by everyone in politics on both sides turns everything to something extremely childish.

That does not represent the other 99.99% of cases.

And yes, women should still not go up to guys in bars and just feel them up. And guys can absolutely file a police report if something criminal happened. This shouldn't be a hard thing to grasp in society.

 

[kurt]

Lots of really dumb posts in this thread. Don't touch someone who doesn't want to be touched, or isn't in a state of mind to make that decision. Don't make sexual comments to someone who doesn't want to receive sexual comments. Don't put someone in a situation where they feel they need to comply with your advances out of fear of physical/professional/psychological/etc consequences if they don't comply. Don't enable predators, or obstruct victims, either through action or inaction.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The simple thing here is to assume the answer is "no" until you get a clear "yes", rather than "yes" until you get a clear "no".

What's a clear yes?

Not to mention, it's blatantly easy to tell when a woman is being coy sexually. It's the whole ****ing point. Her playfulness isn't obscure nor is it supposed to be.

Often, it isn't.

You significantly overestimate the ability of many men to read signals. There are times when things are very clear. There are also times when the situation is clear as mud.

Obviously you can't go around like Hoffman and slip your hands down somebody's pants, but a kiss? Yeah, that could very easily be a crossed signal.

 

[John Price]

 

[Jumptheshark]

newest twist

Beverly Hills Police Submit Sex Cases Against Harvey Weinstein, James Toback to D.A.

The D.A.’s office has yet to decide whether to bring charges. No details of the allegations were immediately available.
“Two cases have been presented to our office by the Beverly Hills Police Department regarding Mr. Weinstein and are under review,” said D.A.’s spokesman Greg Risling.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Brett Ratner wants to limit what the media reports about his lawsuit against one of the women who accused him

Brett Ratner’s Attorneys Seek to Limit Exposure of His Alleged Sexual Misconduct

for me that is a bad plan and could lead many to pass a judgement--a snap judgement is WHY does he want this in place?

 

[izzy]

what is james franco even being accused of

like the one girl is just mad because she signed a contract to be naked in his movies and she was paid for it and is now saying hes abusing his power

people ask her what shes accusing him of and she just blasts them and says they are “mansplaining” if its a guy or that they are betraying women if they are a girl

yettttt it still gets traction and articles with no follow ups past the initial tweet

 

[Mach85]

what is james franco even being accused of

like the one girl is just mad because she signed a contract to be naked in his movies and she was paid for it and is now saying hes abusing his power

people ask her what shes accusing him of and she just blasts them and says they are “mansplaining” if its a guy or that they are betraying women if they are a girl

yettttt it still gets traction and articles with no follow ups past the initial tweet

Yeaaaaah, it's a shame the signed contract one is getting lumped in with the other accusation, because the contract one is pretty ridiculous based on what we know (and she's quite caustic in her replies to people trying to get some clarity). If you sign a contract to do nudity, you generally know what's going to happen. If you don't wanna do it, and that means you miss out on a part that will potentially get you some exposure (no pun intended), then that's how it has to be. It's an imperfect world; you can't get your cake and eat it too. There's no gun to your head, there's no threatening of your family, there's no harm that's coming to you for turning down the role. You just don't get what you want. Boo hoo.

 

[izzy]

Thats the big problem, obviously a lot of these guys are disgusting but how are people supposed to do anything if even contracted nudity is getting them accused.

anyway, guess ill wait and see what happens with his other accuser but as far as this girl... yeah

 

[Jumptheshark]

what is james franco even being accused of

like the one girl is just mad because she signed a contract to be naked in his movies and she was paid for it and is now saying hes abusing his power

people ask her what shes accusing him of and she just blasts them and says they are “mansplaining” if its a guy or that they are betraying women if they are a girl

yettttt it still gets traction and articles with no follow ups past the initial tweet

Franco is a pretty strange dude.. he was directing a few indy movies in NY a couple of years ago and he got most of the actors to agree to work for free for the honor of working with him and did not use union production crews

 

[Bjorn Le]

Franco is an asshole, but this is probably the most skeptical I’ve been of all the actor accusations so far. The woman clearly picked the Golden Globes a long time in advance to announce this, and saying she has proof but won’t say it until she’s talked to a professional is beyond ridiculous, not to mention fishy. I haven’t thought any accusers have been out for money yet, but I can’t help but think this is about exploiting the current environment for personal financial gain.

 

[Stylizer1]

I don't like people coming out 20 years after the fact. If you have proof you go after them and have your day in court.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I don't like people coming out 20 years after the fact. If you have proof you go after them and have your day in court.

It's fine to do it a lot later, it's how they do it.

 

[Stylizer1]

It's fine to do it a lot later, it's how they do it.

I think it hurts your credibility by just saying "oh, by the way he did this to me". I understand 20 years ago the climate was different and it may have been harder to get justice by to cast a net with no hope of catching anything is a waste. It amounts to he said she said and could definitely favour the accused in a case for slander. If 20 years ago you went to the police and filed a complaint and you want to bring it up now that is fine, there is history there.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I think it hurts your credibility by just saying "oh, by the way he did this to me". I understand 20 years ago the climate was different and it may have been harder to get justice by to cast a net with no hope of catching anything is a waste. It amounts to he said she said and could definitely favour the accused in a case for slander. If 20 years ago you went to the police and filed a complaint and you want to bring it up now that is fine, there is history there.

The problem is even five years ago, there was implicit social stigma towards reporting crimes, and it was no different in the "he said, she said category." Moreover, unless the accused was a certain type of person (discriminated minority, poor, disabled etc.,), the accuser/victim was usually harassed, questioned, and humiliated. That's a significant impediment to coming out, and it's part of the reason the majority of sexual assaults weren't and still aren't reported. So it makes a lot of sense that during a watershed moment, lots of people who were victimized in the past start to tell their stories. As I said earlier in this thread, sexual assault isn't something you can treat like any other crime, and you have an interesting situation where you need to presume the accuser is telling the truth and the accused isn't necessarily guilty either. An open mind essentially. The highest credible number I've seen for the number of false accusations is 1 in 5, but it's probably a lot lower. Most victims are telling the truth, and we morally can't let the bad apples make it impossible to prosecute in all the times where someone is truthful.

I'm definitely skeptical of most accusations, but it doesn't mean I don't believe them. It takes a pretty significant circumstance for me to straight up not believe them (like in this Franco case).

 

[Deficient Mode]

Another one:

Five women accuse actor James Franco of inappropriate or sexually exploitative behavior

 

[Pilky01]

Franco has always struck me as incredibly sleazy; especially having seen that instagram thing years ago.

I don't like the "witch hunt" nature of all this, but if it means male celebs stop behaving like Franco was, treating their fans like an all-you-can-f*** buffet, then something good has come of it.

Tho admittedly I have just never been particularly fond of Franco's arthouse-fratboy sorta shtick.

 

[Huggy43]