Holland Really Screwed the Pooch

[obey86]

Yeah if only Holland was more like the Philadelphia Flyers GM and was willing to make tons of crazy trades and play all the young guys! Then maybe the Wings could also have a historically bad defensive performance in the playoffs and follow that up with being 2-5 so far this year! That would be great!

 

[Henkka]

Bertuzzi carries the team every year for stretches, yet people want to replace him with either Tatar or Nyquist. It makes no sense.

Yeah, it's really tough beat to take his 6'3 230lbs body out from there and send those kids to fight with "Prongers" in the corners. Everyone will want Sammy and Bertuzzi way from there and hate Franzen. Take those guys away and we have a total TOP9 with 5'11 forwards. I understand if you are a midget league fan, but not NHL fan.

Before we can replace Bertuzzi with some other big-bodied power-player like Riley Sheahan, he definitely deserves to be there.

Nyquist and Tatar will battle against guys like Cleary, Eaves and Filppula to get the roster spot and ice-time. They have kind of same tools.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

I think JmanWingsFan's argument basically says, he knows the "plugs" can get 30-40 pts, but can Nyquist and Tatar.

But the reverse point is... isn't it more fun to SEE if Nyquist and Tatar can get 30-40 pts themselves? Then with the cap savings... we can afford a REAL star to add to the team

Ahhh. I see you wanna sign Cap Space to a contract...

 

[BinCookin]

Ahhh. I see you wanna sign Cap Space to a contract...

I get what you are saying... there is no one to sign for 5mil per season.

The fate of Cleary and Sammy and any other bottom 6 veterans will probably be determined this year through their own play. Do well and stay. Not so well, and we bring up Nyq/Tatar.

If we don't sign any FA's so be it. I really just hope we don't lose those 2 before giving them 50-100 games of NHL experience

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Ken Holland is increasing the chances of a long, hard transition by his refusal to play the youngsters.

I wasn't aware that Ken Holland was the Wings head coach.

 

[Heaton]

I wasn't aware that Ken Holland was the Wings head coach.

Babcock can't force Holland to call up Nyquist or Tatar.

 

[FlashyG]

Babcock can't force Holland to call up Nyquist or Tatar.

He's already had Nyquist up once and Babcock gave him 1 period in a top 6 role before banishing him to the 4th line with Emmerton.

If Babcock is only going to give him a max of 10 minutes a night on the 4th line with no supporting cast, Holland is right to keep him in the minors getting 20 minutes a night with other scoring forwards.

 

[tfong]

So...not to add fuel to Eva, but Hudler is actually responding well to the increased TOI and added responsibilities offensively. Him and Cervenka are clicking really well and he just scored his 2nd goal and 3rd point in his 2nd game. I might also add the 3rd person on their line is Stajan lol.

(Might not want to let Eva know about this, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it)

Holland might have missed the boat on in one in letting Hudler walk and keeping some other "questionable" forwards.

Edit: 3rd point of the game and 4th in 2 He might outpoint Iggy at this point lol.

 

[Heaton]

He's already had Nyquist up once and Babcock gave him 1 period in a top 6 role before banishing him to the 4th line with Emmerton.

If Babcock is only going to give him a max of 10 minutes a night on the 4th line with no supporting cast, Holland is right to keep him in the minors getting 20 minutes a night with other scoring forwards.

So had Babcock played Nyquist 15 minutes in the top 6 he would've stayed up? Holland didn't make room for Nyquist, he was never staying up.

 

[PullHard]

So...not to add fuel to Eva, but Hudler is actually responding well to the increased TOI and added responsibilities offensively. Him and Cervenka are clicking really well and he just scored his 2nd goal and 3rd point in his 2nd game. I might also add the 3rd person on their line is Stajan lol.

(Might not want to let Eva know about this, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it)

Holland might have missed the boat on in one in letting Hudler walk and keeping some other "questionable" forwards.

Hudler @ $4M > Samuelsson @ $3M, although I don't care for the 4 years.

 

[Brick Top]

So had Babcock played Nyquist 15 minutes in the top 6 he would've stayed up? Holland didn't make room for Nyquist, he was never staying up.

From the roster of forwards going into the season, it's pretty clear that you're right- there wasn't going to be room for either Nyquist or Tatar. But given the ineffectiveness of the bottom 6 in the scoring dept, it's not too late for KH to adjust a few things though.

Serious question here- how do the rules governing putting a guy IR actually work? I'm thinking of Cleary here, and while I'm guessing you can't put a guy on IR for a case of REALLY sucking on the ice, he's gotta have some kind of minor bump or bruise. So, could the Wings use that as an excuse to IR Clearly and bring up Tatar or Nyquist for the 3rd line?

I know it could be kind of a mess to sort out as guys get back healthy, but I honestly think the team would be better and more balanced with one of those guys playing 3rd line mins and seeing some PP time. Either would be a massive upgrade over Cleary in ES and PP situations, and we have a lot of guys to PK.

I suppose my end thought is getting at least one of those 2 up, playing regularly against top competition, and if/when most of the forwards become healthy, KH makes a move or 2 in sending out virtually any of logjam of mediocrity that is the current bottom 6 crowd (short of Helm and Tootoo, who are the only ones who bring something unique to the team).

 

[TS Quint]

Yeah, it's really tough beat to take his 6'3 230lbs body out from there and send those kids to fight with "Prongers" in the corners. Everyone will want Sammy and Bertuzzi way from there and hate Franzen. Take those guys away and we have a total TOP9 with 5'11 forwards. I understand if you are a midget league fan, but not NHL fan.

Before we can replace Bertuzzi with some other big-bodied power-player like Riley Sheahan, he definitely deserves to be there.

Nyquist and Tatar will battle against guys like Cleary, Eaves and Filppula to get the roster spot and ice-time. They have kind of same tools.

+1. Sure it would be nice to bring up Nyquist and Tatar but someone has to go into the coner with the Weber's and those 2 will rarely come out with the puck against 215+lbs men.

Hudler @ $4M > Samuelsson @ $3M, although I don't care for the 4 years.

or you could sait it was 6million vs. 16 million

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

+1. Sure it would be nice to bring up Nyquist and Tatar but someone has to go into the coner with the Weber's and those 2 will rarely come out with the puck against 215+lbs men.
or you could sait it was 6million vs. 16 million

When you have a billionaire pizza baron owner, the total amount is kinda irrelevant compared to the cap hit.

 

[pdd]

So...not to add fuel to Eva, but Hudler is actually responding well to the increased TOI and added responsibilities offensively. Him and Cervenka are clicking really well and he just scored his 2nd goal and 3rd point in his 2nd game. I might also add the 3rd person on their line is Stajan lol.

(Might not want to let Eva know about this, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it)

Holland might have missed the boat on in one in letting Hudler walk and keeping some other "questionable" forwards.

Edit: 3rd point of the game and 4th in 2 He might outpoint Iggy at this point lol.

I watched the second half of the game.

Jiri Hudler 2GP, 2-2-4.

And he has been Calgary's best forward on the ice in general.

 

[FlashyG]

So...not to add fuel to Eva, but Hudler is actually responding well to the increased TOI and added responsibilities offensively. Him and Cervenka are clicking really well and he just scored his 2nd goal and 3rd point in his 2nd game. I might also add the 3rd person on their line is Stajan lol.

(Might not want to let Eva know about this, otherwise we'll never hear the end of it)

Holland might have missed the boat on in one in letting Hudler walk and keeping some other "questionable" forwards.

Edit: 3rd point of the game and 4th in 2 He might outpoint Iggy at this point lol.

Hudler's problem has never been scoring, he's always put up a good amount of points for his ice-time...his problem is that he's one of the worst skaters in the NHL and he isn't defensively responsible.

He's got 4 pts all at even strength and is still E in +/- What good is offence if you're giving up as many as you score.

So had Babcock played Nyquist 15 minutes in the top 6 he would've stayed up? Holland didn't make room for Nyquist, he was never staying up.

To answer your question...yes. If Babcock had played him in the top 6 for that game and afterwards said he wanted to keep Nyquist in that role, Holland would have made room for him and he'd still be playing there.

He was given a shot and Babcock obviously didn't like what he saw. I don't buy that Holland is just running roughshod over Babcock. He's one of, if not the most respected coach in the NHL. Do you really think he has no say and isn't involved in roster decisions?

 

[pdd]

Hudler's problem has never been scoring, he's always put up a good amount of points for his ice-time...his problem is that he's one of the worst skaters in the NHL and he isn't defensively responsible.

He's got 4 pts all at even strength and is still E in +/- What good is offence if you're giving up as many as you score.

Hudler's assist on Saturday was PP. He was also out for the EN goal against Colorado tonight.

So he's effectively +1. And would be higher if Kiprusoff could stop a puck; he gave up three or four really weak goals tonight.

 

[tfong]

Hudler's problem has never been scoring, he's always put up a good amount of points for his ice-time...his problem is that he's one of the worst skaters in the NHL and he isn't defensively responsible.

He's got 4 pts all at even strength and is still E in +/- What good is offence if you're giving up as many as you score.

Kipper actually has been really weak to start this season. Not surprising actually given that has not played during the entire lockout.

If you look at just stats alone, Kipper was 0.762 on the night on 21 shots. Hudler probably has also won over like 95% of the flames section already with his puck management as well during both games.

 

[Heaton]

To answer your question...yes. If Babcock had played him in the top 6 for that game and afterwards said he wanted to keep Nyquist in that role, Holland would have made room for him and he'd still be playing there.

He was given a shot and Babcock obviously didn't like what he saw. I don't buy that Holland is just running roughshod over Babcock. He's one of, if not the most respected coach in the NHL. Do you really think he has no say and isn't involved in roster decisions?

He was given a shot because we had so many injuries. Holland made his decisions over the summer and decided guys like Samuelsson and Bertuzzi were better to play than Nyquist. Babcock wanted Smith up last year and played him an appropriate amount of time when he was re-called but he didn't stay.

 

[crashman]

Hudler's assist on Saturday was PP. He was also out for the EN goal against Colorado tonight.

So he's effectively +1. And would be higher if Kiprusoff could stop a puck; he gave up three or four really weak goals tonight.

How in the world can you still be clamoring on about Hudler? He's not at all what this team needs to win, especially for what he's being paid.

Brunner hasn't played more than a handful of games in the NHL and he already looks more than capable of filling Hudler's role.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I know it could be kind of a mess to sort out as guys get back healthy, but I honestly think the team would be better and more balanced with one of those guys playing 3rd line mins and seeing some PP time. Either would be a massive upgrade over Cleary in ES and PP situations, and we have a lot of guys to PK.

I suppose my end thought is getting at least one of those 2 up, playing regularly against top competition, and if/when most of the forwards become healthy, KH makes a move or 2 in sending out virtually any of logjam of mediocrity that is the current bottom 6 crowd (short of Helm and Tootoo, who are the only ones who bring something unique to the team).

Maybe once the Griffins season is over and if the bottom 6 continues to look awful you could bring up a couple Griffins and do something like:

Nyquist-Helm-Tatar
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Tootoo

That way you'd have 3 of your 4 lines with guys who can win puck battles. Your third line would be pure energy with the ability to forecheck like the very devil and if they can force some turnovers the puck could end up in the back of the opponent's net.

You'd kill a handful of birds with one stone.

1. Your bottom 6 gets some scoring punch from Nyquist, Tatar and Sheahan.
2. You add a couple PP options in Nyquist, Tatar and Sheahan.
3. You add a couple solid PK'ers in Nyquist, Tatar and Sheahan.
4. You add some size in Sheahan.
5. You'd have two lines that can really challenge a defense with their speed (Pavs and Fil along with Helm's line).

Again, with it being that late in the season the rosters would expand so you wouldn't have to waive as many guys. You could say peace out to Eaves and Cleary without a second thought. .

 

[pdd]

How in the world can you still be clamoring on about Hudler? He's not at all what this team needs to win, especially for what he's being paid.

Brunner hasn't played more than a handful of games in the NHL and he already looks more than capable of filling Hudler's role.

Would you rather have Samuelsson or Hudler right now? Because that's basically what it came down to.

I'm willing to bet Hudler has more points by the 20 game mark than Samuelsson gets all season.

 

[Heaton]

Would you rather have Samuelsson or Hudler right now? Because that's basically what it came down to.

I'm willing to bet Hudler has more points by the 20 game mark than Samuelsson gets all season.

Well, he should. He's better offensively and costs a lot more.

 

[opivy]

How in the world can you still be clamoring on about Hudler? He's not at all what this team needs to win, especially for what he's being paid.

Brunner hasn't played more than a handful of games in the NHL and he already looks more than capable of filling Hudler's role.

This is exactly what I've thought to myself throughout the year. I think if anything I'd like to see another Bert type player, obviously there aren't many out there but a big body with a little grit. We have so many guys fighting for the small uber skilled role and only so many places to put them. We have a stockpile, move some pieces out and get the other needed roles.

 

[opivy]

Maybe once the Griffins season is over and if the bottom 6 continues to look awful you could bring up a couple Griffins and do something like:

Nyquist-Helm-Tatar
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Tootoo

That way you'd have 3 of your 4 lines with guys who can win puck battles. Your third line would be pure energy with the ability to forecheck like the very devil and if they can force some turnovers the puck could end up in the back of the opponent's net.

I love that combination, I think Nyquist is young enough to play more than a top 6 role and with Helm and Tatar out there you'd have a great line that other teams would have trouble not only matching up to the speed but also the offensive pressure that not many 3rd lines create.

As for your 4th line, I've enjoyed Tootoo's effort this year, Gator has looked so so, I've never been a fan of his and Sheahan - I guess he has to get some time here and there, maybe slot Emmerton in with those two wings and give Sheahan a game here and there.

I agree with letting Cleary go, Eaves is a solid stand in if a player is hurt and he is OK being a healthy scratch. I'd rather leave one of the kids playing full time in GR than languishing on our bench.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

Well, he should. He's better offensively and costs a lot more.

The difference is basically the cost of another 4th line scrub like Emmerton.

I honestly think the constant hatred for Hudler is just as funny as Eva's fanatical love. So underrated/underutilized in Detroit