Post-Game Talk: Holland > Nill

[Frk It]

I don't see it as much of a knock against Cleary to not be on Holmstrom's level in front of the net. .

Wasn't expecting him to be.

Henkka said screeners don't get points on the Power Play. I was just responding by saying that good ones do, ones that can redirect point shots.

The fact that Cleary has 0 pts in 50+ mins is all we need to know to know he should never be on the ice with a man advantage.

Doesn't matter because none of us can stop Babcock from using his boy when he shouldn't.

 

[Johnz96*]

Wasn't expecting him to be.

Henkka said screeners don't get points on the Power Play. I was just responding by saying that good ones do, ones that can redirect point shots.

The fact that Cleary has 0 pts in 50+ mins is all we need to know to know he should never be on the ice with a man advantage.

Doesn't matter because none of us can stop Babcock from using his boy when he shouldn't.

And consequently because of this and so many other similar boneheaded decisions, losing games he should have won

 

[hot dog]

Everyone complains about Howard never stealing us games this season for his contract... he stole this one for us... we just happened to also put up five goals.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Screener usually does not get any points but affects MAINLY for the goal.


There are secrect stats in hockey.

then why haven't wings gotten a power play goal this year when cleary has been on the ice?

he's actually a minus in a sense since wings have allowed a shorty but not scored while cleary has been on the power play this year.

doesn't seem to do very good job there.

 

[Henkka]

Cleary could have 0 points on PP, but when you look those other 2nd PP guys PP point totals, it isn't impressive either.


Kindl 5p
Tatar 3p
DeKeyser 2p
Sammy 2p
Abdelkader 1p
Nyquist 0p
Weiss 0p
Jurco 0p

then why haven't wings gotten a power play goal this year when cleary has been on the ice?

Maybe because other players aren't enough good to run that 2nd PP.

One perfectly screened goal was disallowed at Florida what I remember.

Why aren't Nyquist getting any critics? They (2nd PP) should get more shots on goal, when those screens would help. But because skilled guys aren't getting the job done, nothing happens.

Everything goes to Cleary.

 

[Vladdy84]

Cleary could have 0 points on PP, but when you look those other 2nd PP guys PP point totals, it isn't impressive either.


Kindl 5p
Tatar 3p
DeKeyser 2p
Sammy 2p
Abdelkader 1p
Nyquist 0p
Weiss 0p
Jurco 0p

Cleary drags everyone down around him.

 

[Johnz96*]

I think that if Pav and Z were coached by Babcock as rookies, they would probably be starring for other teams right now and the Wings would have got nothing for them.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Cleary could have 0 points on PP, but when you look those other 2nd PP guys PP point totals, it isn't impressive either.


Kindl 5p
Tatar 3p
DeKeyser 2p
Sammy 2p
Abdelkader 1p
Nyquist 0p
Weiss 0p
Jurco 0p



Maybe because other players aren't enough good to run that 2nd PP.

One perfectly screened goal was disallowed at Florida what I remember.

Why aren't Nyquist getting any critics? They (2nd PP) should get more shots on goal, when those screens would help. But because skilled guys aren't getting the job done, nothing happens.

Everything goes to Cleary.

nyquist GF/20 0.818

tatar 1.115

they have still gotten some production. not saying they have done great job and i would have also noted that if someone had said that they are great there or something.

2nd unit has gotten quite a lot of shots, it's the on ice sh% that is awfully low.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Cleary drags everyone down around him.

This is the best i could do. Couldn't figure out how to make it bigger.

Source - Cone of Ignorance from the Simpsons

 

[Vladdy84]

This is the best i could do. Couldn't figure out how to make it bigger.

Source - Cone of Ignorance from the Simpsons

Amazing. It's so true.

 

[Flowah]

Cleary could have 0 points on PP, but when you look those other 2nd PP guys PP point totals, it isn't impressive either.


Kindl 5p
Tatar 3p
DeKeyser 2p
Sammy 2p
Abdelkader 1p
Nyquist 0p
Weiss 0p
Jurco 0p



Maybe because other players aren't enough good to run that 2nd PP.

One perfectly screened goal was disallowed at Florida what I remember.

Why aren't Nyquist getting any critics? They (2nd PP) should get more shots on goal, when those screens would help. But because skilled guys aren't getting the job done, nothing happens.

Everything goes to Cleary.

Because when you watch the players and look at the stats, Cleary is obviously a problem spot. Moreover, why would you expect any production from a power play group that is crippled by having a no man advantage with Cleary on there? Especially a unit that is mostly kids who cannot (yet?) carry him.

 

[Henkka]

Because when you watch the players and look at the stats, Cleary is obviously a problem spot. Moreover, why would you expect any production from a power play group that is crippled by having a no man advantage with Cleary on there? Especially a unit that is mostly kids who cannot (yet?) carry him.

Yeah, like you are saying, the problem is the kids. They are not producing on the PP. It's irrelevant who the screener is, if they don't produce. Abdelkader does not turn them into stars or Andersson either.

Just common sense.

I hate Cleary. I never liked the signing. But whining ALL THE ****ING TIME about him doesn't help. He has been better in latest games.

But at same time I hate this Cleary-hate in here that HAS GONE JUST OUT OF THE HANDS.

Mike Babcock decides that it's his job to be there. You are arguing against the best coach in hockey. That''s freaking hilarious.

Cleary drops out from the PP at first day when Mule comes back. It's that simple. This is just temporary solution. Like I said, 3rd best screener in screener hiararchy.

 

[Johnz96*]

Yeah, like you are saying, the problem is the kids. They are not producing on the PP. It's irrelevant who the screener is, if they don't produce. Abdelkader does not turn them into stars or Andersson either.

Just common sense.

I hate Cleary. I never liked the signing. But whining ALL THE ****ING TIME about him doesn't help. He has been better in latest games.

But at same time I hate this Cleary-hate in here that HAS GONE JUST OUT OF THE HANDS. Behave yourselves. Everybody is looking like a total moron with this ultimate bashing.

Mike Babcock decides that it's his job to be there. You are arguing against the best coach in hockey. That''s freaking hilarious.

Cleary drops out from the PP at first day when Mule comes back. It's that simple. This is just temporary solution. Like I said, 3rd best screener in screener hiararchy.

Babcock is an idiot and Cleary is just one of the many proofs.

 

[Vladdy84]

Yeah, like you are saying, the problem is the kids. They are not producing on the PP. It's irrelevant who the screener is, if they don't produce. Abdelkader does not turn them into stars or Andersson either.

Just common sense.

I hate Cleary. I never liked the signing. But whining ALL THE ****ING TIME about him doesn't help. He has been better in latest games.

But at same time I hate this Cleary-hate in here that HAS GONE JUST OUT OF THE HANDS.

Mike Babcock decides that it's his job to be there. You are arguing against the best coach in hockey. That''s freaking hilarious.

Cleary drops out from the PP at first day when Mule comes back. It's that simple. This is just temporary solution. Like I said, 3rd best screener in screener hiararchy.

Oh really? Lets see him coach the Blue Jackets or some other team devoid of elite talent. I could coach Team Canada. Cleary doesn't belong on an NHL roster. Yet he sometimes plays 16-18 minutes a night. He's on the ice at critical moments as well.

 

[InjuredChoker]

i think babcock is one of the best coaches but that doesn't mean he always makes right/good decisions.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

i think babcock is one of the best coaches but that doesn't mean he always makes right/good decisions.

I agree. It's idiotic how much he plays Cleary, but he isn't an idiot/bad coach.

 

[Johnz96*]

I agree. It's idiotic how much he plays Cleary, but he isn't an idiot/bad coach.

Bertuzzi, Quincey, Hudler, Filppula. More proof.
Babcock made it to the finals with the Ducks because Giguere took more advantage of being allowed to make his torso as big as he wanted more than any other goalie did. They didn't make the playoffs the following season and he was fired.
He won the Cup with the Wings because they had 2 forwards who would be the best forward on most other teams, 3 defenseman who would be the best defenseman on most other teams, great goaltending as well as a solid supporting cast, including 2 forwards who are currently solid top liners (and were then only babcock didn't know it) playing in the bottom 6
They lost the Cup the following season even though they added another forward who would be the best forward on most teams.
They lost the Cup that year because Babcock insisted on playing Hossa top minutes (and wouldn't trust others who have since proven capable of it) despite the fact that he was very ineffective because of an injury.
The Canadian Oluymoic team would win most years regardless of who the coach is.

 

[Vladdy84]

Bertuzzi, Quincey, Hudler, Filppula. More proof.
Babcock made it to the finals with the Ducks because Giguere took more advantage of being allowed to make his torso as big as he wanted more than any other goalie did. They didn't make the playoffs the following season and he was fired.
He won the Cup with the Wings because they had 2 forwards who would be the best forward on most other teams, 3 defenseman who would be the best defenseman on most other teams, great goaltending as well as a solid supporting cast, including 2 forwards who are currently solid top liners (and were then only babcock didn't know it) playing in the bottom 6
They lost the Cup the following season even though they added another forward who would be the best forward on most teams.
They lost the Cup that year because Babcock insisted on playing Hossa top minutes (and wouldn't trust others who have since proven capable of it) despite the fact that he was very ineffective because of an injury.
The Canadian Oluymoic team would win most years regardless of who the coach is.

Agree a lot with this. Babcock should have won more than 1 cup with the Wings. We all knew that talent we had when Nick was here. And losing a 3-1 lead to Chicago is embarrassing.

 

[Johnz96*]

Agree a lot with this. Babcock should have won more than 1 cup with the Wings. We all knew that talent we had when Nick was here. And losing a 3-1 lead to Chicago is embarrassing.

I should have said one defenseman who is the best d-men most of us have ever seen (unless you're over 40 and were lucky enough to see Bobby Orr in action) and 2 others who would be the best on most other teams.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I really don't hold it against Babcock for not winning a second cup. A healthy Datsyuk is the difference between one and two cups. Since their last trip to the Cup Finals, their roster has been abysmal thanks to Ken Holland signing/bringing back a bunch of washed up garbage that stunted the development of the prospects.

I don't think he did a great coaching job against Chicago last year.

I have lost a lot of faith in Babcock the past couple of seasons, but the Wings problem is a lack of talent on the ice. He has definitely exacerbated the problem created by Holland, but i still think he gives the Wings a ton of credibility and respect around the league.

Wings current roster with Babcock is a middling playoff team. My opinion of the team doesn't change with a different coach.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Babcock was amazing in the Ducks series. Splitting D and Z in Game 7 was brilliant.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Babcock was amazing in the Ducks series. Splitting D and Z in Game 7 was brilliant.

My disapproval mainly stems from him allowing Cleary on the ice.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I should have said one defenseman who is the best d-men most of us have ever seen (unless you're over 40 and were lucky enough to see Bobby Orr in action) and 2 others who would be the best on most other teams.

ray bourque .

I really don't hold it against Babcock for not winning a second cup. A healthy Datsyuk is the difference between one and two cups. Since their last trip to the Cup Finals, their roster has been abysmal thanks to Ken Holland signing/bringing back a bunch of washed up garbage that stunted the development of the prospects.

I don't think he did a great coaching job against Chicago last year.

I have lost a lot of faith in Babcock the past couple of seasons, but the Wings problem is a lack of talent on the ice. He has definitely exacerbated the problem created by Holland, but i still think he gives the Wings a ton of credibility and respect around the league.

Wings current roster with Babcock is a middling playoff team. My opinion of the team doesn't change with a different coach.

well said.

i think we saw the best and worst of babcock, sort of, in that chicago series.

 

[14ari13]

I think Bowman was even worse at playing older players. If I remember right.

 

[14ari13]

Agree a lot with this. Babcock should have won more than 1 cup with the Wings. We all knew that talent we had when Nick was here. And losing a 3-1 lead to Chicago is embarrassing.

Didn't we also have a 3-2 vs the Pens?