HOH Top 100- First Round of Voting

[reckoning]

yeah, I think the 7-88 was for the goalie.

It has to be for the goalie because I had the d-man at #6. Unless my list was one of the ones rejected.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

It has to be for the goalie because I had the d-man at #6. Unless my list was one of the ones rejected.

I think I completely misread the situation. I just saw DH and the d-man came to mind. I'm positive it was the goalie now.

 

[reckoning]

* Players currently in top 50 not on every list: BT, CT, PC, BC

Which BC? The Flyer, Ranger or Bruin?

* Player not currently in top 100 appearing on most lists: AD (16)
* Player currently in top 100 appearing on fewest lists: AF (11)

Not surprised by either of those. I had AD in the 110-120 range and imagine most others did as well. I knew several voters wouldn't put AF on their list, while the ones who did would have him high. Tough to figure out where he should go.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Which BC? The Flyer, Ranger or Bruin?

Not surprised by either of those. I had AD in the 110-120 range and imagine most others did as well. I knew several voters wouldn't put AF on their list, while the ones who did would have him high. Tough to figure out where he should go.

I'm sure it wouldn't be the Flyer. Wouldn't surprise me if it's the Ranger (old-time guys really fluctuate) or the Bruin (shouldn't be top 50, but some people seemingly hold his longevity against him).

I had AD in my top 100 (another guy who might get the "he only did so much because he played so long" punishment). Put him post-expansion, and he's a perennial 90-100 point, two-way forward.

I'm assuming AF is the early Soviet star, and not Andrew Ferrence or Alex Frolov. I gave AF strong consideration; I just have concerns about the competition he was facing in his glory days. Most players in the NHL in the 60s could have put up a goal a game at the World Championships.

 

[FissionFire]

Which BC? The Flyer, Ranger or Bruin?

Ranger

 

[Hockey Outsider]

As for a press release, I have to check on that. I'm pretty sure someone offered to do a summary/bio of all the players somewhere in this thread so I need to big back through the posts and see who it was and give them first crack at it if they are still interested. Unless HO has something planned already because honestly I haven't thought that far ahead yet lol.

I haven't thought that far ahead yet either, to be honest...

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

Which BC? The Flyer, Ranger or Bruin?

Oh man, I misinterpreted these initials as well, I thought of the Flyer. Looking through my list again, however, all three of them are included...

 

[MXD]

On a lighter note : There was (because of the doublons, he's finally 65) a BM at 67.

 

[FissionFire]

On a lighter note : There was (because of the doublons, he's finally 65) a BM at 67.

I still don't know how you can consider Bryan Marchment a guy in the Top 100.

Oops, did I forget to use initials?

 

[MXD]

I still don't know how you can consider Bryan Marchment a guy in the Top 100.

Oops, did I forget to use initials?

Not Marchment.... Muir.

 

[Weztex]

I'm positive he meant May.

 

[ck26]

How long till the totals get released?

 

[FissionFire]

Quick update:

VanIslander and Spitfire11 have real life commitments that will prevent them from participating sadly and I haven't heard back from Murphy so right now the only list I'm waiting on is Weztex, possibly one revision (although the submitter seemed angry at the rejection and hasn't replied to my email so I'm not sure if I'll be getting one), and one correction on a list that had only 119 players. If this can all get done in the next 24-48 hours Round 2 will begin Friday/Saturday.

Lists Received
amnesiac
arrbez
BM67
cottonking
DaveG
EagleBelfour
God Bless Canada
Hockey Outsider
kruezer
Kyle McMahon
MXD
Nalyd Psycho
overpass
pappyline
pitseleh
pnep
Pwnasaurus
raleh
reckoning
seventieslord
Shlomo
Thornton_19
tomi2
Transplanted Caper
Wings4Life
vivianmb

Pending Lists
Weztex

 

[FissionFire]

How long till the totals get released?

The aggregate totals will get released at the end when each individual list is posted. This will happen after Round 2 is complete and the final "official" list is done. So it'll come in bits and pieces at first. I don't want to release the aggregate too soon in case it might influence some voting on more controversial players in Round 2.

 

[VanIslander]

VanIslander and Spitfire11 have real life commitments that will prevent them from participating sadly

Thanks.

I spent six hours on my list but feel it needs much more attention before i could be satisfied with it, and indeed, I took on extra workplace commitments that give me only sporadic, short-time attention until the end of the month.

I eagerly look forward to seeing how this process progresses and applaud - even envy - those centrally involved in it.

The history of hockey is an addiction.

 

[Weztex]

Sent. Last one as always.

I'm 60% satisfied with my list but I didn't had much more time to put on it. Bad timing because I have my next week off. So I may pretty much contradict my own list in round 2.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I can't speak for Murphy, he only told me that it would be coming in on Sunday. If it's not in, don't wait for him; even though he's probably the only person with BG in his top 50, and HPB in his top 120, and he loves his tough, gritty hockey. He's always busy at this time of year with his kids' hockey, and he works in the northeast BC oilfield, so he's probably not going to have a lot of free time right now.

I'd love to see him get a list in - he's a ATD buddy and he loves his rugged hockey - but don't delay the process for him.

Also sad to see that Spit (another guy who loves rough and tumble hockey) and VanI (who's opinions on North American and international hockey are about as balanced as anyone) won't be involved.

Is participation in Round 2 possible for those not involved in Round 1? (Perhaps a special exemption could be granted for a few). And is participation in Round 2 mandatory for those who participated in Round 1? (Not that it's an issue for me; I'm just asking).

 

[Weztex]

For entertainement and intesrest purpose, I suggest we attack the list in reverse order, from 120 to 1.

 

[MXD]

For entertainement and intesrest purpose, I suggest we attack the list in reverse order, from 120 to 1.

I'd also suggest the "missing the cut" guys... In order, if possible or relevant. (if there are 120 guys missing the cut, not sure if the order is relevant).

 

[FissionFire]

I can't speak for Murphy, he only told me that it would be coming in on Sunday. If it's not in, don't wait for him; even though he's probably the only person with BG in his top 50, and HPB in his top 120, and he loves his tough, gritty hockey. He's always busy at this time of year with his kids' hockey, and he works in the northeast BC oilfield, so he's probably not going to have a lot of free time right now.

I'd love to see him get a list in - he's a ATD buddy and he loves his rugged hockey - but don't delay the process for him.

Also sad to see that Spit (another guy who loves rough and tumble hockey) and VanI (who's opinions on North American and international hockey are about as balanced as anyone) won't be involved.

Is participation in Round 2 possible for those not involved in Round 1? (Perhaps a special exemption could be granted for a few). And is participation in Round 2 mandatory for those who participated in Round 1? (Not that it's an issue for me; I'm just asking).

The top 10 on the list are pretty much locked into those spots in some order or another on the aggregate barring someone really hating a guy and ranking him 110th or something. If Murphy can't get a list in until this Sunday that's fine, since I can incorporate it into the aggregate after Round 2 has begun without worrying about changing the ranking on the first set up for debate.

I agree on VI and Spit. I really wanted to get as many of the ATD folks as possible in on this but the timing just didn't work out too well. I'm planning on doing yearly "updates" to the list in summers so hopefully with far more advance notice and preparation time we'll be able to get everyone involved who wants to be, as well as hopefully attract plenty of new blood to fuel the debates. With 25 lists this time it's been very interesting to see some of the different rankings on players. I can only imagine what it would be like with 40 or 50 lists.

Round 2 participation is still possible for anyone who didn't sumbit a list for Round 1. The participation, however, will be limited to joining in the debates and discussion. Making exceptions and allowing them to actually vote opens a door that I'd rather avoid. I also told one poster earlier in the thread (or the other one, can't remember) that Round 2 voting required Round 1 list submission. To change it up could be problematic, plus I'd feel like a hypocrite to that other guy. Since this isn't a 1-time only project but will be repeated annually I don't think it's absolutely necessary to ensure all the best are part of the voting initially since there's a darn good chance they'll make sure to be involved the next time. Plus being a non-voting participant allows them to freedom to focus on RL commitments without having to feel obligated to being involved in the debates on anything more than a superficial level. To me, if their RL time is very limited it's not really fair to them or to us to ask them to be an active participant in a process that is likely to fair amount of time and energy in the discussions.

Participation in Round 2 is VERY highly encouraged but technically not required. I know how everyone ranked players so I have a good idea when some debates should pop up and what players they'll pop up over. This isn't meant to be a passive process where voters sit back and let the same half-dozen people argue amongst themselves. By joining in this project it's expected that you will be a part of every part of the process, including the debating. While being a wallflower may not mean anything now, you can be sure I'll know who's not getting involved and remember that when the time to do the update list comes along. No matter how much knowledge a person might possess on the subject, it's really worthless to the project if it's not shared openenly in discussion. This is the part where people will learn the most about players. In fact, the entire point is to change the opinions of the others voters to your viewpoint while maintaining an open mind to possible flaws or oversights in your own. None of that can be done with continual and active participation in my opinion.

Short answer: No, it's not required but why in the heck would want to get involved in the first place if you didn't want to defend your views against some of the best hockey history minds on the internet?

For entertainement and intesrest purpose, I suggest we attack the list in reverse order, from 120 to 1.

That's actually worse. I'd be willing to bet 75% of the participants could correctly predict the top 10, just not the order. Also, the way the voting works is that the pool of candidates is always twice as large as the number of spots being voted on. So for the first set of voting we'll be voting on places 1-5, but the top 10 from the aggregate will be the pool of eligibles. Also, keep in mind this is a Top 100 list. The extra 20 spots were simply to act as a buffer for the bottom of the list players who are just barely out vs. not even close for voters. I also think the debating will become MORE intense the lower we get, not less. At the top everyone has basically the same guys in some order or another. At the bottom the values fluctuate far more which means the range of opinions is far greater so the potential for debate should be at it's peak.

I'd also suggest the "missing the cut" guys... In order, if possible or relevant. (if there are 120 guys missing the cut, not sure if the order is relevant).

Do you mean rank these players? That's something we can tackle closer to the end if people are really interested in doing it. For the record, 244 differnet players were mentioned on at least 1 list, meaning there will be 144 players who "miss the cut", or about 1.5 times the size of the list.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Can't wait for round 2 and the discussions

I also want to see how closely the top 10 forwards, top 10 Defensemen, and top 10 goalies reflects upon my picks.

I think my biggest problem was, I did my list all in one day, and the last 70 or so spots all started to blend in together to me. I made some huge omissions that I corrected on my second draft and turned in, but the more I discuss things, the more I realize that I probably made some errors.

If we are doing revisions once a year, then it will correct itself over time

 

[ck26]

If we are doing revisions once a year, then it will correct itself over time

The point of re-attacking and revising is to adjust active players, no? Larry Robinson and Denis Potvin aren't going to do anything in the next year that will adjust their value.

The only exception to this (that I can think of) would be an active player becoming the second to complete Achievement X ... if a historical player gets point for being "the only" to do something that multiple subsequent players achieve, the old-timer's prestige might take a few hits. If Lidstrom and Zubov lead the league in scoring back-to-back seasons, we will probably think less of the fact that Orr did it and slide Bobby a little closer to Harvey, Shore, Potvin and Robinson.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

The point of re-attacking and revising is to adjust active players, no? Larry Robinson and Denis Potvin aren't going to do anything in the next year that will adjust their value.

There will be differences due to increased knowledge and changing voter base.

 

[MXD]

Do you mean rank these players? That's something we can tackle closer to the end if people are really interested in doing it. For the record, 244 differnet players were mentioned on at least 1 list, meaning there will be 144 players who "miss the cut", or about 1.5 times the size of the list.

Well...I'd say
1 - Name as HM's players 120 to 130.
2 - Name other guys that received votes.

 

[FissionFire]

There will be differences due to increased knowledge and changing voter base.

Precisely. Besides, does anyone really ever get tired of debating players with the other great hockey minds in this forum?

Well...I'd say
1 - Name as HM's players 120 to 130.
2 - Name other guys that received votes.

I'm guessing you mean 101 to 130. The final list is only the top 100. Like I stated before, the extra 20 was the buffer so we wouldn't have to include bonus points for just making an appearance. We can certainly vote on players past the top 100 if everyone involved in still interested.

The final aggregate list when posted will include all 244 players listed, whether voted upon or not.