The Roy Of Ottawa
HOCKEY HALL OF FAME
- Oct 4, 2017
- 861
- 212
England apparently invented a lot of things.....
They are just not very good at most of them....lol
They invented slavery too.....
Ice hockey or field hockey? Which came first?
Don't know who created it but the first organized league was in Montreal with various Montreal teams, an Irish One, An English One and a Scotish One. And then a team from Ottawa was grafted to it. The guy from Ottawa owned the Ottawa team and another Ontario team(not from Toronto, it was the city he was from,not a big one).
Then a frustrated owner left and wanted to created a competitive league and created The Montreal Canadiens who would target the french audience of Montreal. But since no french people played hockey they hired a bunch of guys with french-sounding names (Marleau? check) and a frenchy from Ottawa. Other teams joined and teams from the other league joined too. And this new league became more popular and became the only league, etc...
Article said:The O'Briens had a hockey team, the Renfrew Creamery Kings, that were part of the Upper Ottawa Valley Hockey League and they issued a Stanley Cup Challenge to the reigning team, the Montreal Wanderers. According to the rules of the day, this was one of the two ways a team could win the Cup.
But the Wanderers turned down the challenge and, as they were part of the Eastern Canadian Hockey Association – a different League than the Renfrew Creamery Kings – it seemed the O'Briens had no way to grasp this sacred cup.
Not willing to give up easily, Ambrose O'Brien went to Ottawa for the annual meeting of the Eastern Canadian Hockey Association in November, 1909, to ask to join the League. But with hockey quickly becoming recognized as a profitable venture, Association members decided to limit membership to maximize profits, so they dismantled the Association and then restructured it to form the Canadian Hockey Association (CHA).
If I'm not mistaken field hockey was played by the Incas in the 1500s(?)
I guess that's why England is such a powerful hockey nation. I think which country was most instrumental in making a sport popular is the important thing. If hockey had only stayed in England, hockey obviously would've never have gone anywhere, as seen by the fact that the English just don't seem to care about it at all. Then there's all the things that actually make up what we think of as hockey. In Canada (and U.S.), hockey was developed into the sport that so many countries have come to love, from the develpment of the puck, to certain rules like how many players are on the ice at once time, ice size, equipment (and equipment development), the creation of an actual hockey rink, the conduct of players, passing rules, offsides, etc., etc. etc.
Hockey today is NOT hockey they played in the 18th century in any country--including Canada. The description of "hockey" as written in the article is hilarious. Oh yes, that sure sounds like todays hockey--it hasn't changed a BIT! LOL
Canada developed the game as we know it today, and it has gone on to become one of the "big four" sports in North America. The US also had influence into creating what we now know and identify as to what hockey is, as well, so Canada has never had a monopoly on it, anyway. It's not even our national sport in Canada. But fact is, we did mostly develop it into what it is today, and that's all that really matters.
I'm sure people in Africa or China were kicking around various ball like objects with their feet over 4000 years ago for fun. Does that mean they invented football/soccer? It's ridiculous, and ultimately an irrelevant question all-together. Just like the Americans weren't the first people to ever hit something with a stick ("bat") to hit it a far distance. You can go on and on.
Actually FIFA had the nerves to say football originated in China.
Did that actually impact modern field hockey?If I'm not mistaken field hockey was played by the Incas in the 1500s(?)
I don't think this is the case. The British stick and ball games evolved from games likely dating to Roman times. Skates were also probably invented in Europe.What a thread !
I always thought (and still do tend to think) the native tribes of Canada played a game of "hockey" way before any English. I thought the first few attempts across the pond by settlers introduced them to the game and therefore enabled them to take the game back to the UK to introduce to anyone that would part take.
Great reads here.
Good point. Lots of people might have had ball and stick games played on ice but were those organized sports with rules resembling modern hockey? I would guess now. it was probably Creighton and his contemporaries who created that.^^^Alrighty then. Fact of the matter is it doesnt matter where or when hockey was first played because Canada is without debate or question the cradle of the game. The place where it was nurtured and grew up, given flight. Took off. Montreal the indisputable "birthplace of the modern game" possessing the kind of provenance required to authenticate & validate exactly that. Did North American Natives, Scandinavians, the Dutch, French & British play games similar to hockey or shinny as we'd played it as kids on the street, in fields, on frozen lakes, ponds, backyard & community rinks recreationally & just for fun? Absolutely. Just common sense that if they were skating (which they were) and then using a pike pole or staff to propel themselves (on bone skates, your not gunna glide a whole lot, need like an outboard motor, an oar to push yourself around pre-iron age & the creation of proper blades) and for balance, would just naturally evolve into playing pickup with whatever object was available to bat around on an ice surface. Games an amalgamation transcending culture. Very old. But it was Creighton, the Montrealers' who gave it form & substance. Made it their own. Canadas Gift to the World.
Word of mouth history isn't something to rely onBy all your post's in the thread it's abundantly obvious you've fallen for the book; hook-line and sinker. Research more and don't be so quick to jump upon the bandwagon of people who have scant and arguable information simply attempting to grab headlines. I'm aware of all the differing theories, I'm also aware New-Scotland wasn't a hotbed of the irish like you've previously claimed, Pictou county - the Mi'maq word for pocket of gas, is my wife's home and littered with generational scottish.
Hey, speaking of Scottish, they invented a game with a stick and a ball!... Holy Hannah, maybe they invented Hockey!
Or... perhaps, just maybe it was invented by the natives of this land and introduced to the settlers and popularized over time. If it had been an already established sport in England, of ANY name, Lord Stanley or Preston wouldn't of marvelled and fallen in love with that odd Canadian game, which he'd never seen before. Nor is there any form of definitive paper trail beyond wild speculation and interpretation of paintings by people trying to reach for some form of European origin. The hardest evidence and the word-of-mouth history that passes on through generations place it here.
Which is why anyone and everyone in the hockey world including noted Hockey historians laugh this stuff off.
As will I.
I am sure there something interesting about the actual invention if it is possible to really put it in a singular place and time (for many things a bit complex, plane, car, phone, computer not really, that would be rare, like there is no first chicken in the history of evolution that his parents were not chicken).
Maybe Micheal Jackson did not invent the moonwalk, Musk did not start Tesla or Apple portable mp3/itunes (that was bought, it was named SoundJam to sync music on Rio player before) or the smartphone, making something popular is often more work and accomplishment than inventing it.
I would imagine there was no first hockey game (a game that would be hockey but that the closest attempt just before would not)
Actually, there are depictions of field hockey going all the way back to the Greeks in 510 BCE. There’s also records of it going back further to the Persians and Egyptians.If I'm not mistaken field hockey was played by the Incas in the 1500s(?)
What rules did the native game contribute?Personally, my own research led me to the conclusion that there must have been a first game, however embryonic. There were many stick games being played at the time when Montreal ice hockey was born. Each started at some point.
The idea that each game is taken from earlier games is good, but can take us only so far in Ice Hockey's case because Ice Hockey was based on contributions from two continents. This is what the birth of Montreal forces us to recognize, and it has devastating effects on the blinkered English invention theory:
Working past in time, Montreal ice hockey leads to Halifax ice hockey which, by around the time when James Creighton moved, has become associated with a thing called the Halifax Hockey Club. That game must have had its own beginning, but as a hybrid colonial-indigenous game that must have been born after the first colonists arrived in 1749, and at no earlier point, because this particular stick game required the involvement of Halifax colonists.
The fatally-flawed English invention theory either ignores or fails to recognize the Mi'kmaw whose involvement in Halifax hockey has been very well known since at least 1943. Halifax's game is the one stick game that Montreal inherited and brought to the big time. The stick game created by the "partners" of Halifax, Dartmouth and Kjipuktuk is simply too big for the English invention theory, which considers only Ice Hockey's British contributors. And it had to wait for the partners to meet in order to be literally 'born'.
So you are in disagreement with the user advocating for purely native origins?Personally, my own research led me to the conclusion that there must have been a first game, however embryonic. There were many stick games being played at the time when Montreal ice hockey was born. Each started at some point.
The idea that each game is taken from earlier games is good, but can take us only so far in Ice Hockey's case because Ice Hockey was based on contributions from two continents. This is what the birth of Montreal forces us to recognize, and it has devastating effects on the blinkered English invention theory:
Working past in time, Montreal ice hockey leads to Halifax ice hockey which, by around the time when James Creighton moved, has become associated with a thing called the Halifax Hockey Club. That game must have had its own beginning, but as a hybrid colonial-indigenous game that must have been born after the first colonists arrived in 1749, and at no earlier point, because this particular stick game required the involvement of Halifax colonists.
The fatally-flawed English invention theory either ignores or fails to recognize the Mi'kmaw whose involvement in Halifax hockey has been very well known since at least 1943. Halifax's game is the one stick game that Montreal inherited and brought to the big time. The stick game created by the "partners" of Halifax, Dartmouth and Kjipuktuk is simply too big for the English invention theory, which considers only Ice Hockey's British contributors. And it had to wait for the partners to meet in order to be literally 'born'.