Great Britain: Hockey in Britain part 3

[Siamese Dream]

Think the U18 WC proved that perhaps OHA may not be the best thing... Especially for the defence.

Go on then, tell me some players better than the OHA boys who should have been picked instead

 

[Bojovnik]

Skill wise, perhaps not, but arguably playing on the best team all season isn't the best for young defencemen who need to learn how to play when under pressure.

I'm assuming you watched all the U18 games, and saw just how awful that defensive unit was?

 

[Siamese Dream]

Skill wise, perhaps not, but arguably playing on the best team all season isn't the best for young defencemen who need to learn how to play when under pressure.

I'm assuming you watched all the U18 games, and saw just how awful that defensive unit was?

Well not really because they only played 18 of their games for "the best team" while also playing senior hockey as well as games on the continent against stiffer opposition.

As Scarecrow Boat said they were all 16, only 1 Dman on the team had played at international level before

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Skill wise, perhaps not, but arguably playing on the best team all season isn't the best for young defencemen who need to learn how to play when under pressure.

I'm assuming you watched all the U18 games, and saw just how awful that defensive unit was?

I understand your point but don't think it's completely thought out.

I don't think it's fair to judge them as 16 year olds. 17 year old D-men for the GB u18 team tend to struggle as is but then you have 7 of 8 D-men aged 16/15, you had to expect some struggle.

As you said, defencemen need to learn how to play under pressure which isn't something you usually get in U18-NIHL regardless of where you play. Most D-men start developing when they start getting minutes at the EPL level. I don't think there were any GB U18 quality D-men playing regularly in EPL this season anyway (?)

A prime example of this would be the development of Stead & Buglass since last years U18 tournament. They were part of a pretty awful defensive unit at the U18s as 17 year olds, went to EPIHL where they had regular minutes against stiff competition, and then went to the U20s in key roles and were part of a pretty excellent defensive unit that won gold.

Smith actually reminds me of Stead, loads of speed & skill but doesn't quite know how to use it yet. Swings his stick at the puck as he blows by the opponent or going for ill advised checks that put him way out of position or in the penalty box. It might work for him in England U18 or NIHL but it won't work internationally or in senior hockey which you could see him figuring out as the tournament went along. Stead improved that part of his game a ton this year but still needs some work on it.

But where the OHA kids have a leg up on most young British D is in the details of the game. For example, Nethersell/Smith were better on the PP than most U20 D-men for GB. Their comfort with the puck overall was something you very rarely see from 17 year olds at this level for GB let alone 16 year olds.

They still have a lot of improving to do defensively and it's something they'll figure out as they continue to develop but the fundamental skills/details they've learned at OHA will translate to the senior game better than if they stayed at their domestic club being coached by a NIHL2 player/coach and a U18 coach with no experience.

 

[PrimroseandBlue]

I can't remember encountering a sport in Britain that has as confusing a setup as ice hockey. It's a shame it looks like it won't change anytime soon.

 

[EvilDead]

I can't remember encountering a sport in Britain that has as confusing a setup as ice hockey. It's a shame it looks like it won't change anytime soon.

What do you mean by "confusing setup"?

 

[PrimroseandBlue]

What do you mean by "confusing setup"?

Multiple, antagonistic governing bodies and leagues. It's very fragmented.

 

[EvilDead]

Multiple, antagonistic governing bodies and leagues. It's very fragmented.

That's unfortunate. You'd figure that a nation that has figured out how to create multiple organized and streamlined Football League structures in Scotland, England, Wales, and Northern Ireland would be able to figure out how to create a similar system that encompasses all of Great Britain for ice hockey.

 

[Kimi]

It's not hard to workout a system. It's not hard to pour money into it to make it happen. But no one in this country gives a **** about ice hockey. So it'll never happen.

 

[EvilDead]

It's not hard to workout a system. It's not hard to pour money into it to make it happen. But no one in this country gives a **** about ice hockey. So it'll never happen.

Well when you bring that up...I could see how that could bring a damper on any progress for a solid structure in British hockey. Question out of curiosity, what would be considered as the height of popularity for ice hockey in Great Britain and when did that start fading? Because I would have to assume that at some point, while not outshining sports like Association Football and Cricket and Rugby and Motorsports, ice hockey had to have a big groundswell of support in the country. I mean, technically, the UK (via Canada) was the country that invented the sport. Hell, the national team won the Bronze and Gold Medal in the 1924 & 1936 Winter Olympics respectively, won the European Championship in 1910, and then placed in the top three in the IIHF World Championships three times (Silver 2x in '37-38, Bronze in '35). Granted these all happened long ago prior to WW2 when Canada was still considered a Dominion rather than a fully independent country. Still, I would have to imagine that the sport still had a decent sized fan base in the country that would have lasted past WW2.

 

[Kimi]

I would never consider ice hockey to have ever been popular here, let alone have a peak.

Those old teams were all Canadians (or at least born/grew up there).

 

[Ally]

Could somebody please give me some info about how it works with selection for GB Teams? Have a son a defenceman who plays in Sweden on a U16 team at one of the big clubs and in theory could play for a GB team...

 

[Siamese Dream]

Could somebody please give me some info about how it works with selection for GB Teams? Have a son a defenceman who plays in Sweden on a U16 team at one of the big clubs and in theory could play for a GB team...

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/iihf-eligibility/

 

[Danmark]

Can anyone explain me the different between EIHL and EPIHL? - How much higher is the level of play in EIHL?
I can se a lot of the talented youngsters are playing in EPIHL instead of EIHL, is it like a farmer league for EIHL?
Or is it a separate league? Because a lot of foreigners are playing EIHL, but only a few in EPIHL?

I hope someone can help me and give me some knowledge about it.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Can anyone explain me the different between EIHL and EPIHL? - How much higher is the level of play in EIHL?
I can se a lot of the talented youngsters are playing in EPIHL instead of EIHL, is it like a farmer league for EIHL?
Or is it a separate league? Because a lot of foreigners are playing EIHL, but only a few in EPIHL?

I hope someone can help me and give me some knowledge about it.

The EIHL is a significantly better standard. The two leagues are completely separate and are run by different governing bodies. The EPIHL is not considered a farm league for the EIHL, though teams do sometimes sign players on a "two-way" contract but this basically just means they play for the EIHL team when their EPIHL team doesn't have a game on the same day.

 

[Uskoton]

Can anyone explain me the different between EIHL and EPIHL? - How much higher is the level of play in EIHL?
I can se a lot of the talented youngsters are playing in EPIHL instead of EIHL, is it like a farmer league for EIHL?
Or is it a separate league? Because a lot of foreigners are playing EIHL, but only a few in EPIHL?

I hope someone can help me and give me some knowledge about it.

EIHL = Top level professional league in the UK. Teams can sign 13 or so (its always changing) imports, usually Canadian, and fill the rest with the best British players they can find, however most of the Brits end up on the 3rd line with little minutes and is always a big topic on UK hockey forums. The EIHL runs it's self and most of Team GBs players come from this league.

EPIHL = Second tier of British hockey. While officially it's a 'development league' it has now, over the last few years, turned into a Semi-Pro competitive league. It kind of competes with the EIHL for fans and players. EPIHL teams will pay to keep British players in the league the best they can, however they have smaller budgets and smaller rinks. This league only allows 4 NON UK players and any of these 4 imports need to be either EU or Dual national EU Passport holder.

Below that you have the National Leagues which are amateur but host the odd import player on some of the better teams.

 

[Ally]

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/iihf-eligibility/

Yes this i understand bit what about camps or tryout for the GB Teams?

 

[Siamese Dream]

Yes this i understand bit what about camps or tryout for the GB Teams?

But based on that is he eligible?

I think you have to be invited you can't just show up. Obviously if they don't know he exists then you could contact someone, possibly Mark Beggs who is the "National talent development officer" for IHUK

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Yes this i understand bit what about camps or tryout for the GB Teams?

if a player isn't eligible for GB, they're not likely to waste their time inviting him to camp. That roster spot could be used for someone who could actually make the team.

If the kid has a British parent but isn't born in GB or has a passport to the country they're currently residing (in your case, Sweden) they won't be eligible for GB without playing in GB for 2 years after age 10.

You can't tryout for a country you're not eligible for.

 

[Ally]

But based on that is he eligible?

I think you have to be invited you can't just show up. Obviously if they don't know he exists then you could contact someone, possibly Mark Beggs who is the "National talent development officer" for IHUK[/QUOTE

Well i am sure if they see him they will probably be very interested Thanks for your info i will get in contact with them

 

[hansomreiste]

Do you guys think that if KHL created an ice hockey team in London or any other big cities in UK that may have interest in that sport, it would fill the arena and become a legit organization? As far as I know there is no concrete plans to include UK but this has been an ongoing topic in KHL forums, adding teams from Paris, London etc. Do you think it's viable?

I remember F4 of Euroleague being held in London and it was disastrous. On the other hand, people tell me that ice hockey is not like basketball in UK and could work... What are your opinions on this?

 

[Kimi]

Nope. No one cares, no one will care.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Do you guys think that if KHL created an ice hockey team in London or any other big cities in UK that may have interest in that sport, it would fill the arena and become a legit organization? As far as I know there is no concrete plans to include UK but this has been an ongoing topic in KHL forums, adding teams from Paris, London etc. Do you think it's viable?

I remember F4 of Euroleague being held in London and it was disastrous. On the other hand, people tell me that ice hockey is not like basketball in UK and could work... What are your opinions on this?

It all depends who's running it.

There is a ton of potential for success but very few people who would be able to do it properly.

 

[Shrimper]

IT, you will likely know this more than anyone.


What are the player salaries like in the EPIHL?

 

[Siamese Dream]

IT, you will likely know this more than anyone.


What are the player salaries like in the EPIHL?

They aren't officially disclosed but one does hear things, it can be anything from nothing up to £600 a week for the top imports maybe more. For the vast majority of players they don't get enough to live on.