Great Britain: Hockey in Britain part 3

[AlanHUK]

what leagues will Kieren Brown be playing in this year? I saw it mentioned in a thread in the prospects forum that he wasn't allowed to play under 16s last year due to rule changes

 

[Siamese Dream]

what leagues will Kieren Brown be playing in this year? I saw it mentioned in a thread in the prospects forum that he wasn't allowed to play under 16s last year due to rule changes

He'll be playing in U14 next year and most likely U16

The rule change was that you couldn't play up more than one age group. So he as an Under 12 could only play up to Under 14s

 

[AlanHUK]

Any chance he makes the move over to Canada to play juniors there do you think?

 

[Siamese Dream]

Council approves plan for the new Plymouth Argyle football stadium redevelopment, which will include an ice rink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-23718682

Teams aren't going to fancy a trip down there to play, to be honest. In an ideal world Exeter would get a rink too so they can have a rivalry. While there's no rink in Bristol, Plymouth's closest rink is Cardiff, 150 miles away.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Looks like OHA's U18 program is getting a few more commits after all:


http://www.britishicehockey.co.uk/news/four-more-commit-to-oha-programme-6686.html

The Okanagan Hockey Academy are delighted to announce that a further four players have been added to our U18's Prospects programme for the 2013-14 season.

With Luc Johnson and Michael Stratford already confirmed, we also welcome Tom Rutkis and Glen Billings to the fold, along with last season's returnees Logan Prince and Itsvan Dragomir who have also committed to the forthcoming season.

Tom Rutkis, a skilled forward who hails from Latvia is joining the programme from Guildford U16's where he has been a prolific scorer over the last few seasons since his arrival in the UK while Glen Billing, who is also a forward with plenty of skill, joins the group from Essex having been with the junior set up at Romford and is a very smart player who is strong on the puck.

Returnee Logan Prince improved in all areas of his game last season and is a speedy power forward and comes to play every shift and has a great work ethic who puts his team mates first, while Isti Dragomir is a complete team player who was voted last year's players Player of the Year and is he is extremely popular in the dressing room. He works tirelessly for his peers and plays at both end s of the rink.

Speaking about how the players, head coach Peter Russell commented: "Firstly, I'm delighted to have Logan and Isti returning to the programme for the coming season and to add Tom and Glen to our group is the icing on the cake.

"Both Glen and Tom have trained with our group before and they are lovely lads with great work ethic and they both have a desire to progress themselves further.

"I am really looking forward to working with our boys this year and watching them all develop further again.

"I have stated before, that this is the best programme in the UK to develop within and is the best environment to achieve ones full potential on and off the ice.

"We have some very talented 12, to 16 year old's in the programme now and that is a fantastic base to build from. The future is bright!

"We will be developing each player's skills, game understanding and each individual strength and conditioning.

"It is very mixed group in terms of ages, but a very exciting one and I can't wait to see where they all are in May next year."

To find out more about the OHA(UK) please email General Manager Steve Nell or call our office on 01793 886 857.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Interesting find right here.

Sam Duggan was at the 2013 IIHF Hockey Development Camp. Didn't know that was a thing but looks interesting. He finished 11th in the tournament in scoring with 6GP 8G 4A 12PTS +9 6PIMS

http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/edu/data/iihf/output/xml/309/IHM309000_85B_6_0.pdf

Some solid players at that camp. Ryan Lindgren is a very good future player who currently goes to Shattuck and already committed to an NCAA team. Sam Steel was on team Maroon and he was a recent #2 pick in the WHL draft. Kaden Elder was a 1st round WHL draft pick. I'm sure some of those Euro players are of significance but I don't know any '98s outside of NA other than GB & Adam Tilander lol

Other GB players there
Kyle Smith:
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/edu/data/iihf/output/xml/309/IHM309000_33_20_0_BLA.pdf
He had 6gp 1g 1a 2pts +12 6pims

Owen Bradshaw:
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/edu/data/iihf/output/xml/309/IHM309000_33_33_0_RED.pdf
He had 6gp 3g 1a 4pts +5 4pims

Josh Milton:
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/edu/data/iihf/output/xml/309/IHM309000_33_26_0_WHI.pdf
6GP 5.10GAA .815Save%


Forgot to mention Duggans team (Team Blue) went 5-1-0 and finished first place in their little tournament. He was his teams leading scorer which included Tobias Eder (leading scorer in Germany) Otto Mäkinen (high end future Finnish player)

 

[Siamese Dream]

I read about this a while ago, there were some solid players there but also a bunch of guys from really crappy hockey countries so too much shouldn't be read into the stats

There was a similar thing held in Sheffield this summer for girls, attended by Crosby's sister. Apparently the Canada and USA organisations set it up because they've been threatened with women's hockey being removed from the Olympics because it isn't competitive enough.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

I read about this a while ago, there were some solid players there but also a bunch of guys from really crappy hockey countries so too much shouldn't be read into the stats

There was a similar thing held in Sheffield this summer for girls, attended by Crosby's sister. Apparently the Canada and USA organisations set it up because they've been threatened with women's hockey being removed from the Olympics because it isn't competitive enough.

sounds about right. Canada & USA get a guaranteed medal in women's hockey every year and nobody really watches it. Sad thing is women's hockey in Canada is growing a ton so other countries outside of NA has too much catching up to do.

 

[Siamese Dream]

sounds about right. Canada & USA get a guaranteed medal in women's hockey every year and nobody really watches it. Sad thing is women's hockey in Canada is growing a ton so other countries outside of NA has too much catching up to do.

We all know the main reason they are so far ahead of everyone else is because they have the luxury of college sports scholarships. It's the same for women's football/soccer, USA and Canada are the best in the world despite overall not being big football/soccer countries. Most of the hockey girls here don't take it very seriously because they know there are few opportunities for them in the sport, so they just play for a laugh and aren't motivated to get in top shape or get better. Whereas the girls in Canada and USA work hard so they can get that college scholarship and then when they get to college they're in a quality setup.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

We all know the main reason they are so far ahead of everyone else is because they have the luxury of college sports scholarships. It's the same for women's football/soccer, USA and Canada are the best in the world despite overall not being big football/soccer countries. Most of the hockey girls here don't take it very seriously because they know there are few opportunities for them in the sport, so they just play for a laugh and aren't motivated to get in top shape or get better. Whereas the girls in Canada and USA work hard so they can get that college scholarship and then when they get to college they're in a quality setup.

I don't think there's 1 Canadian University/College that gives out scholarships for Women's Hockey. I live in an area in Canada that doesn't have a very high population or produce many quality male hockey players (A couple NHL stars and maybe 5 depth players throughout the entire province) and yet I can name about 5-10 women who have huge futures in Women's Hockey from this area .

Also when I was playing hockey as a kid, there was 3 girls in our age group in the entire area (10 different organizations) and they all had to play with the boys. Now they have girls teams starting from age 5 going all the way up to Midget which was unimaginable 10 years ago.

The reason for the growth is because of the National Program doing their grunt work. They spent a lot of time and effort promoting girls hockey, putting programs in place for girls to develop & succeed. They also put together national development camps that start with scouts identifying top end girls from across the country, getting them together in 1 location, showing them what they need to do to get to the next level, introducing them to resources you can't get everywhere in the country, and preparing them to represent the country at some point in their lives.

I'm sure you'll say "well it's Canada, they take to hockey!" but honestly if there was a women's hockey forum 10 years ago, the negative nancy's would have been similar to THF but the right people got involved, saw the potential, and did the work nobody else wanted to do themselves.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I know it's a horrible thing to say but something that has been really pissing me off lately is Sport England and other governing bodies are only interested in giving funding to hockey if it's for women or disabled people. I think there's a team in Slough for kids with learning difficulties and they get all their ice time and equipment paid for by Sport England.

They give a **** load of money to sledge hockey but give nothing to normal hockey

 

[3 Minute Minor]

I know it's a horrible thing to say but something that has been really pissing me off lately is Sport England and other governing bodies are only interested in giving funding to hockey if it's for women or disabled people. I think there's a team in Slough for kids with learning difficulties and they get all their ice time and equipment paid for by Sport England.

They give a **** load of money to sledge hockey but give nothing to normal hockey

You're absolutely right! That was a horrible thing to say

Sledge hockey has also just become a thing here. I know Canada had teams but in this area it was nonexistent.

On another note, does EPL/NIHL/U18/U16/U14 start this weekend?

 

[Siamese Dream]

You're absolutely right! That was a horrible thing to say

Sledge hockey has also just become a thing here. I know Canada had teams but in this area it was nonexistent.

On another note, does EPL/NIHL/U18/U16/U14 start this weekend?

EPL regular season starts today and everything else officially started last week but a lot of teams are yet to play their first game

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

It doesn't really take a genuis to work out why women's hockey in NA is much bigger than anywhere else.

Womens hockey/sports have a cap. Most sports are fan/gate driven. Majority of objective sports fans (i.e with no political, psuedo or personal relationship/agenda) watch sport for entertainment. I have absolutely no interest in female football. Much as i have absolutely no interest in disability sport. It's great they have an outlet, but past that why should i care? The rhetoric that they are courageous, dedicated people may be true .... the majority of elite level able body athletes have dedicated their entire lives to their profession too. I don't see that rhetoric being propagated in the media alas.


It's a limited insight with little relevance to much, but teaching 14-17 kids from around the world, you truely realise how little pennetration hockey has, even within natioms that are established powers at the sport.

For smaller hockey nations i think coaching, clear working infrastructures and understanding how elite talents are developed far outweighs sheer numbers, rinks, media coverage and general public popularity. For elite nations these factors are imperative on top of the existing foundations. I wouldn't say they are meaningless or obsolete for smaller nations, but they are far less important.

GB can reach a competitive and respectable level if it is run by intelligent, proactive, agenda-less people within a visible structure. The potential for most doesn't particularly exist IMO, but much can still be done.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I think that's the most insightful post you've ever contributed to these threads J17, and not a hint of sarcasm in it

 

[3 Minute Minor]

http://www.bihc.org.uk/teamU18.html

Peterborough 32:0 EIHA JL 15.09.13 15:25 H BRAC

So did Bracknell U18 beat Peterborough U18 32-0?

 

[S E P H]

Does the average UK citizen know what hockey actually is or do they think of field hockey when talking about just hockey?

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Does the average UK citizen know what hockey actually is or do they think of field hockey when talking about just hockey?

They know what it is but if you say hockey I think the average UK citizen thinks field hockey first and calls our hockey, ice hockey. Similar to me, I know what field hockey is but you have to say 'field' or I'm confused

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Does the average UK citizen know what hockey actually is or do they think of field hockey when talking about just hockey?

Average citizen does not.

Majority of people also think field hockey sucks (which it does).

 

[Siamese Dream]

When I was in school field hockey was for girls, the teachers wouldn't let the boys play it because they knew we would just beat the **** out of each other with the sticks

I disagree with J17, I've never met a person who has asked "What is ice hockey?" When I tell them I play it. Most people know what it is, even if they don't know it actually exists in this country. Ethnic minorities from Asia are more likely to not know what it is though.

But yes, if you said just "hockey" people will think you mean field hockey. You need to specifically state "ice hockey"

 

[TheRedShadow]

When I was in school field hockey was for girls, the teachers wouldn't let the boys play it because they knew we would just beat the **** out of each other with the sticks

For some reason we played shinty at school (in Birmingham) and that's more or less exactly what we did

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

When I was in school field hockey was for girls, the teachers wouldn't let the boys play it because they knew we would just beat the **** out of each other with the sticks

I disagree with J17, I've never met a person who has asked "What is ice hockey?" When I tell them I play it. Most people know what it is, even if they don't know it actually exists in this country. Ethnic minorities from Asia are more likely to not know what it is though.

But yes, if you said just "hockey" people will think you mean field hockey. You need to specifically state "ice hockey"

Most people know absolutely nothing about ice hockey. The reason you've never met anybody say "What is ice hockey" is because most people can deduce what ice hockey is by the name. As unintelligent as the average human being is, even most possess the cognitive skills to deduce that. Outside of this? No, majority of people are absolutely clueless about the sport.

You'll have a slightly different perspective because you operate within the community to some extent.

You should be glad you didn't play field hockey. There is a sport that shoots itself in the foot (ironic choice of words).

 

[Siamese Dream]

Most people know absolutely nothing about ice hockey. The reason you've never met anybody say "What is ice hockey" is because most people can deduce what ice hockey is by the name. As unintelligent as the average human being is, even most possess the cognitive skills to deduce that. Outside of this? No, majority of people are absolutely clueless about the sport.

You'll have a slightly different perspective because you operate within the community to some extent.

You should be glad you didn't play field hockey. There is a sport that shoots itself in the foot (ironic choice of words).

They may not know anything about it but they still know what it is. A majority of the population have heard of ice hockey and would be able to tell you something along the lines of "a bunch of men on ice in pads beating the crap out of each other"

Outside of ethnic minorities, the general population is not that ignorant of it. The sport as a whole has had a reasonable presence in popular culture and mainstream media.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

They may not know anything about it but they still know what it is. A majority of the population have heard of ice hockey and would be able to tell you something along the lines of "a bunch of men on ice in pads beating the crap out of each other"

Outside of ethnic minorities, the general population is not that ignorant of it. The sport as a whole has had a reasonable presence in popular culture and mainstream media.

Most people have heard of time travel. Most people have heard of Hitler. Most people have heard of the word statistics. Most people have absolutely no idea of the implication, application, meaning or production of any of these things. A man will have heard about Hitler, heard about how he is evil and has heard of Godwin (ha, didn't take 6 posts!) but is still ignorant as hell on the topic.

The sentence example you give defines ignorance. Knowing something exists isn't knowing something (You do History if i recall, there aren't many uses of it, but here is one). Majority of people have heard of baseball, multi-dimensions and online poker. They are absolutely friggin ignorant about the subject matter.

As for the sport have reasonable presence in UK popular culture .... my mind can't compute and produce a sarcastic enough comment. It has no serious presence in UK popular culture. Like absolutely none. The mainstream media and ice hockey are exlusive from one another.

"Ethnic minority" should be an ignored comment when discussing a niche, regional sport. I have no idea about how these "subsets" view hockey, but since it's a sport with limited pennetration and "popular" in a few pocket holes, without data, citing these minorities serves no purpose whatsoever. Black people in London may not know anything about ice hockey, but nor do any of it's white "english" population either, apparently. Would be interesting to see data.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I think you've missed the point, the guy asked "Does the average UK citizen know what hockey actually is" and the answer to that is yes. It doesn't matter how much they know about it, they still know what it is.

Hockey is there in popular culture, mostly in films (even if it's not specifically about hockey). When the mighty ducks movies came out they were very popular among 90's children such as myself, I did see them before I ever became remotely interested in hockey. Hockey was once featured on a Top Gear episode. Goon was shown in UK cinemas. Games always used to be on EuroSport and the Olympics were on BBC. The Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane crash got a considerable amount of news coverage here the day it happened.

It's true the British game gets little to no exposure but the sport as a whole does.