OT: (Hockey) Cities Worldwide (Mod edit post 34)

[Atlas]

I wonder if the United States has lost a lot of its appeal for foreign talent. The feel of the culture is notably worse than it was in the 80s and 90s. The NHL isn't at all what it used to be. Too many teams. Too much discipline/regulation from the league office rather than letting the men be men. The regular season is a bore. The playoffs are still great—even that used to be better IMO. Too much player movement due to free agency. A lot of guys change teams so much they barely know what team they play for. Does Ribs care about PHX? Did he care about WSH? Only in the sense of being a pro. It used to be more than that.

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[hb12xchamps]

Kovalchuk recently bought a $10+ Million dollar house in the #1 most expensive town in New Jersey.

The keyword there is New Jersey. If any city is going to be similar to these giant Russian cities such as Moscow, it would be DC. On top of that, Ovechkin has his entire family living here each hockey season and his soon to be wife is a tennis pro who when not traveling is with Ovechkin.

 

[RandyHolt]

I wonder if the United States has lost a lot of its appeal for foreign talent. The feel of the culture is notably worse than it was in the 80s and 90s. The NHL isn't at all what it used to be. Too many teams. Too much discipline/regulation from the league office rather than letting the men be men. The regular season is a bore. The playoffs are still great—even that used to be better IMO. Too much player movement due to free agency. A lot of guys change teams so much they barely know what team they play for. Does Ribs care about PHX? Did he care about WSH? Only in the sense of being a pro. It used to be more than that.

I don't wonder, I think its obvious. The US has changed so much in the past 20 years I can see how its lost its appeal. From politics to wars to Spanish quickly becoming almost as common as English (go shopping in Ballston Mall on the next trip to Kettler), hyper inflation in home prices, insane traffic, the list just goes on and on.

While the KHL has changed the game, the NHL game itself has changed. The league lacks character and passion, now its all about a money grab. From Ted down to the players, who can blame them. The US is ground zero for capitalism. Some people have limits in their quest for money.

 

[Raikkonen]

The keyword there is New Jersey. If any city is going to be similar to these giant Russian cities such as Moscow, it would be DC.

Moscow and DC? Two different worlds.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

the keyword there is new jersey. If any city is going to be similar to these giant russian cities such as moscow, it would be dc.

nyc?

 

[BenedictGomez]

The keyword there is New Jersey. If any city is going to be similar to these giant Russian cities such as Moscow, it would be DC.

Well that's certainly not true. If anything, NY/NJ which is America's biggest city, is best comparable to Moscow, Russia's biggest city.

Population

NY/NJ Metro area - 11.7M
Moscow - 11.5M
Wash DC - 4.7M

 

[blokeyhighlander]

Well that's certainly not true. If anything, NY/NJ which is America's biggest city, is best comparable to Moscow, Russia's biggest city.

Population

NY/NJ Metro area - 11.7M
Moscow - 11.5M
Wash DC - 4.7M

Lumping Newark in with New York is like a NoVA kid saying they live in DC.

 

[Raikkonen]

Guys, I've visited many countries. And I mean like 40 of them, mostly european. Many european cities from huge business centers like London to small swiss towns in between the Alps and beautiful lakes. Obviously Moscow and S-Peterburg also. Now I have an opinion

1. While SPb is one hell of a city with its unique atmosphere... it has some problems also. Wealthy ppl mostly do live outside of SPb, like farther from the center than Newark is from Manhattan. It is true. Another factor is the climate. Much less sunny days than in NJ, and it's colder. So I think it's a non-factor in the equation for Kovalchuk.

2. While you listed DC as 4,7M it doesn't feel like that. My experience was very different from other USA cities. DC feels much more like european town, at least it was for me as a tourist (and should be for a wealthy pro athlete). We had a small trip out of DC to some place in Maryland... and it is beautiful. I sensed a good relaxed vibe from the area. I believe the place where Ovechkin lives is also like what we have seen. Green, warm, convenient and safe.

That is not what you get around Moscow. Hardly even close. So you should not expect OV saying he wants to go home. You will hardly get such a level of comfort in Russia. Yes, his home is Moscow, but he's spending the summer there. It's enough, I would guess.

3. I think one can say NY, London and Moscow are similar cities. Just the different english accent.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Guys, I've visited many countries. And I mean like 40 of them, mostly european. Many european cities from huge business centers like London to small swiss towns in between the Alps and beautiful lakes. Obviously Moscow and S-Peterburg also. Now I have an opinion

1. While SPb is one hell of a city with its unique atmosphere... it has some problems also. Wealthy ppl mostly do live outside of SPb, like farther from the center than Newark is from Manhattan. It is true. Another factor is the climate. Much less sunny days than in NJ, and it's colder. So I think it's a non-factor in the equation for Kovalchuk.

2. While you listed DC as 4,7M it doesn't feel like that. My experience was very different from other USA cities. DC feels much more like european town, at least it was for me as a tourist (and should be for a wealthy pro athlete). We had a small trip out of DC to some place in Maryland... and it is beautiful. I sensed a good relaxed vibe from the area. I believe the place where Ovechkin lives is also like what we have seen. Green, warm, convenient and safe.

That is not what you get around Moscow. Hardly even close. So you should not expect OV saying he wants to go home. You will hardly get such a level of comfort in Russia. Yes, his home is Moscow, but he's spending the summer there. It's enough, I would guess.

3. I think one can say NY, London and Moscow are similar cities. Just the different english accent.

Thanks for the learned perspective.

FWIW, I think London is kind of a DC/NYC hybrid. It's much cleaner and more historical than NYC, but more metropolitan (and populated, obviously) than DC.

 

[usiel]

Well that's certainly not true. If anything, NY/NJ which is America's biggest city, is best comparable to Moscow, Russia's biggest city.

Population

NY/NJ Metro area - 11.7M
Moscow - 11.5M
Wash DC - 4.7M

For major cities in the US calculating demographic data makes more sense using MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Areas) for New York and DC metro areas (and LA for good measure).

NY: 19,039,570
DC: 5,695,369
LA: 12,958,610

2012 total population (census 2010 based)

Don't know if Russia has an equivalent geography.

 

[Calicaps]

DC as relaxed? That's new and fascinating. I would never think of it that way and surely not compared with the European cities I've visited. But I've not been to Russia. Compared with the Bay Area it's hugely high stress.

 

[Raikkonen]

DC as relaxed? That's new and fascinating. I would never think of it that way and surely not compared with the European cities I've visited. But I've not been to Russia. Compared with the Bay Area it's hugely high stress.

I didn't sense any stress, being mostly in the center of DC. When we did leave it for some Maryland place (I think we got north in the direction of Silver Spring and some more to the north) those areas weren't stressing at all (to my eye).

Road traffic @ DC? Yes, to some extent, but nothing major. Ppl in metro? Hahaha. It's almost free if you will compare it to Moscow I would guess it is an expensive area to live so there are many ppl who work in the center and not many else. So either I didn't see them or they were relaxed enough )))

Anyway, I can recommend you to visit Saint-Petersburg one day. It is a special place for sure and will be an experience to remember

DC is special also. No need to leave for OV.

PS: We had a car (did 2000+ miles on it while on the trip) and lived near White House. I've tried every way to get to Verizon: by walk, by car and by metro. A couple of times each, it seems. My experience tells me it wasn't a stress at all. One day we have walked from Capitol to some Fish Market on the river (so you have an idea we had to walk a bit). The feeling from the city was the same as other days. Maybe I was excited too much to see anything.

 

[Carlzner]

I didn't sense any stress, being mostly in the center of DC. When we did leave it for some Maryland place (I think we got north in the direction of Silver Spring and some more to the north) those areas weren't stressing at all (to my eye).

Road traffic @ DC? Yes, to some extent, but nothing major. Ppl in metro? Hahaha. It's almost free if you will compare it to Moscow I would guess it is an expensive area to live so there are many ppl who work in the center and not many else. So either I didn't see them or they were relaxed enough )))

Anyway, I can recommend you to visit Saint-Petersburg one day. It is a special place for sure and will be an experience to remember

DC is special also. No need to leave for OV.

PS: We had a car (did 2000+ miles on it while on the trip) and lived near White House. I've tried every way to get to Verizon: by walk, by car and by metro. A couple of times each, it seems. My experience tells me it wasn't a stress at all. One day we have walked from Capitol to some Fish Market on the river (so you have an idea we had to walk a bit). The feeling from the city was the same as other days. Maybe I was excited too much to see anything.

Cool! Silver Spring is where I live.

Thanks for your input... I can definitely see some places in DC that would remind one of European cities... and then some areas that definitely do not look like European cities.

 

[Raikkonen]

Thanks for your input... I can definitely see some places in DC that would remind one of European cities... and then some areas that definitely do not look like European cities.

It is not the look. It is a... style of life?. The vibe, the feeling?

DC is more european than NY/Phi. Boston is also different, it seems. Been there too short, but their drivers are different hehe, and they are like a bunch of europeans. It was obvious to me at the time. Somehow

So maybe DC gets you a comfortable feeling. For my mentality. I would think OV's got a similar one to an extent. But I could be wrong.

In a sense, 600k DC center was giving me a vibe of some average european 600k population town. The looks - yes - they're different with all those buildings... But I've seen some buildings, it's nice but not the factor at all. Excluding the looks nothing will tell you you're in the political center of the world. Just a calm comfortable place.

The people, how they talk, how fast they move and "live" - that is giving me the vibe.

 

[sk84fun_dc]

blokeyhighlander, The players don't live in Newark; it's a silly point in terms of the discussion. Alpine where Kovalchuk was building / built? a house is beautiful, elite, and an easy trip into NYC.

 

[Jossipov]

Lumping Newark in with New York is like a NoVA kid saying they live in DC.

Just kind of reading other threads to see what people thought of it....but this caught my eye.
Dont think people understand this area....Newark is about 8 miles from Manhattan.
I live in Bergen county and can still see the Empire State Building from my window. The New York Giants, Jets, and Red Bulls...all play in New Jersey (From Times square it takes much longer to get to Giants stadium than it takes to get Prudential center...heck, it takes longer to get Yankee stadium). Most New York teams athletes, celebrities and what not live in New Jersey.

Likewise, Im fairly certain like most Rich people who work in DC....they live in NoVA.
Just saying, its not exactly like Kovy had to live in a housing project in East Orange, and its not exactly like Newark is a day trip away from Manhattan.

Anyway, was curious, any reaction from Ovi on this subject?

 

[Calicaps]

I didn't sense any stress, being mostly in the center of DC. When we did leave it for some Maryland place (I think we got north in the direction of Silver Spring and some more to the north) those areas weren't stressing at all (to my eye).

Road traffic @ DC? Yes, to some extent, but nothing major. Ppl in metro? Hahaha. It's almost free if you will compare it to Moscow I would guess it is an expensive area to live so there are many ppl who work in the center and not many else. So either I didn't see them or they were relaxed enough )))

Anyway, I can recommend you to visit Saint-Petersburg one day. It is a special place for sure and will be an experience to remember

DC is special also. No need to leave for OV.

PS: We had a car (did 2000+ miles on it while on the trip) and lived near White House. I've tried every way to get to Verizon: by walk, by car and by metro. A couple of times each, it seems. My experience tells me it wasn't a stress at all. One day we have walked from Capitol to some Fish Market on the river (so you have an idea we had to walk a bit). The feeling from the city was the same as other days. Maybe I was excited too much to see anything.

That's really interesting to me. I grew up and lived most of my life in DC. But I left because the pace was too hectic and the stress level too high. People work too much and until pretty recently had very little to do for fun.

I remember when El Tamarindo was about the only place in town to get a meal after midnight.

But I don't doubt your experience either. I think DC has changed a lot and for the better in the past 10-15 years.

And I would love to St. Petersburg, not to mention Moscow, plus Sweden, Finland and so many other places.

 

[Atlas]

I don't wonder, I think its obvious. The US has changed so much in the past 20 years I can see how its lost its appeal. From politics to wars to Spanish quickly becoming almost as common as English (go shopping in Ballston Mall on the next trip to Kettler), hyper inflation in home prices, insane traffic, the list just goes on and on.

While the KHL has changed the game, the NHL game itself has changed. The league lacks character and passion, now its all about a money grab. From Ted down to the players, who can blame them. The US is ground zero for capitalism. Some people have limits in their quest for money.

Randy,

America is producing nearly no culture at all right now. My generation (young 40's) is as guilty as any and it is getting worse. What goes for music today is a disgrace to the men and women who developed the language and technology to produce it.

The NHL is only one of thousands of things that has compromised its quality.

But please do not blame capitalism. America is not and has never been a fully free economy. It was close for a period after the Civil War (a period of incredible expansion and wealth creation). Since the early 1900s, the American government has gradually increased its regulatory power and now we need all kinds of permits to even build a shed on our own property. We are not free.

Capitalism is the political system of and for those worthy of freedom. Socialism is the political system for those who cannot stand (or refuse to stand) on their own. It is because America has drifted far away from freedom that our culture is disintegrating. We are no longer self-reliant, educated, confident.

I'm not sure if you were attacking capitalism in your post but it seemed you were at the end (I agreed with quite a bit of what you said).
Cheers

 

[Raikkonen]

You shouldn't think it's only a problem for USA though.

Something new have to breed from the ruins of current system/culture. Later

 

[Atlas]

It is not the look. It is a... style of life?. The vibe, the feeling?

DC is more european than NY/Phi. Boston is also different, it seems. Been there too short, but their drivers are different hehe, and they are like a bunch of europeans. It was obvious to me at the time. Somehow

So maybe DC gets you a comfortable feeling. For my mentality. I would think OV's got a similar one to an extent. But I could be wrong.

In a sense, 600k DC center was giving me a vibe of some average european 600k population town. The looks - yes - they're different with all those buildings... But I've seen some buildings, it's nice but not the factor at all. Excluding the looks nothing will tell you you're in the political center of the world. Just a calm comfortable place.

The people, how they talk, how fast they move and "live" - that is giving me the vibe.

Boston is a great city. There is a life to the people there—a vibrancy that is rare. I wouldn't say "a love of life" because that overstates it. But there is a life to Boston. I cannot stand Cambridge, Mass., which is right across the river from Boston. There is something frighteningly anti-human about that little culture.

I don't like D.C. It's a collection area for pragmatist power-lusters. That is, thugs—elected and unelected.

I have experience with most east coast cities, California cities (excluding San Francisco), Texas cities, Denver, Chicago, Indianapolis, Nashville. They all seem to be in decline. But, it's still possible to find great spots and great people. Only great people make life worth living (and that includes being great yourself). It's harder to find those people now but they still exist.

Vancouver is an interesting city. I was there in 2004 and I liked it. I don't love Seattle, based on little exposure. But Vancouver had a lot to like.

I haven't been to Europe. I am primarily interested in Paris (and all of France) and St. Petersburg. I have read all the major novels of Victor Hugo and Dostoevsky and want a taste of where that great art came from.

 

[Raikkonen]

I haven't been to Europe. I am primarily interested in Paris (and all of France) and St. Petersburg. I have read all the major novels of Victor Hugo and Dostoevsky and want a taste of where that great art came from.

Hurry up if you want to taste some Paris. The last days of it are coming. Great people are leaving that place... It isn't comfortable anymore as far as I know.

But you should try Rome also. However, you will lose most of the Europe anyway Try anything major and you will like it probably.

 

[Atlas]

Hurry up if you want to taste some Paris. The last days of it are coming. Great people are leaving that place... It isn't comfortable anymore as far as I know.

But you should try Rome also. However, you will lose most of the Europe anyway Try anything major and you will like it probably.

I expect you are right about Paris. I am not yet convinced that the better people will accept the rotten culture without a fight. So far they have but I wonder if it will be become a fight at some point.

Is St. Petersburg a calm city these days? Intelligent and civilized? Or crazy with traffic and crazy kids? Or what?

 

[Raikkonen]

I expect you are right about Paris. I am not yet convinced that the better people will accept the rotten culture without a fight. So far they have but I wonder if it will be become a fight at some point.

Is St. Petersburg a calm city these days? Intelligent and civilized? Or crazy with traffic and crazy kids? Or what?

I believe french ppl need help from the outside.

SPb is calm enough. Some crazy traffic, of course, but you can avoid cars altogether. The metro is good (russian good) and you can walk all the way through the city. It's safe, never had any problems

Intelligent ppl in Petersburg are defending their culture as well as they can.

But as I always do you should avoid the farthest districts of the city without transport. Non russian speaking tourist could have some trouble still. As in every big european tourist center like Paris

EDIT: For extreme experience, you can try to pretend you're Moscow Spartak's fan. That is the end of the intelligence.

 

[Atlas]

I believe french ppl need help from the outside.

SPb is calm enough. Some crazy traffic, of course, but you can avoid cars altogether. The metro is good (russian good) and you can walk all the way through the city. It's safe, never had any problems

Intelligent ppl in Petersburg are defending their culture as well as they can.

But as I always do you should avoid the farthest districts of the city without transport. Non russian speaking tourist could have some trouble still. As in every big european tourist center like Paris

EDIT: For extreme experience, you can try to pretend you're Moscow Spartak's fan. That is the end of the intelligence.

Thank you! I think I will like St. Petersburg. One difficulty is, of course, the language. I am learning French well enough that I can see fitting into a French-speaking culture. But Russian language seems so different that it'd be frustrating for them and for me. I have read a lot of Russian literature (Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Turgenev, Gogol, even Chernyshevsky believe it or not) but does anyone talk about those writers anymore, even there? Everyone seems so busy with idiotic Twitter.

I'd love to spend a summer there if I had plenty of money and free time!

 

[Atlas]

I believe french ppl need help from the outside.

I think I know what you mean. Probably, the French culture is getting wiped out. If they don't defend it, well, it will disappear. America is in no position to help anyone right now. We have to rediscover ourselves or we will disappear, too.