HNIC shows new potential alignment with 16 teams in "east" groupings

[Undertakerqc]

Here is the video from Sportsnets on realignement issue: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2013/02/26/nhl_realignment_proposal/?source=video

 

[FakeKidPoker*]

Here is a thing i'm wondering about realignment..

What happens when teams finally get back to Quebec City? and another team does make its way to Toronto?

I mean do they simply move Detroit back to the West?

 

[Tawnos]

Here is a thing i'm wondering about realignment..

What happens when teams finally get back to Quebec City? and another team does make its way to Toronto?

I mean do they simply move Detroit back to the West?

They're planning on revisiting this in 2015. My guess would be that Colorado would bump to the Pacific and both Detroit and Columbus bump back West if QC and TO do get teams.

 

[FakeKidPoker*]

Hmm I see, I see.

One thing is... The Coyotes are pretty much moving and it seems everything I read is Seattle is the front runner to land them.. Seattle or Portland? That doesn't make sense to me.. wouldn't Quebec be the most logical place with Le Colise?

Or will the NHL just let the Coyotes stay in Glendale for ANOHTER year?

 

[MNNumbers]

Here is a thing i'm wondering about realignment..

What happens when teams finally get back to Quebec City? and another team does make its way to Toronto?

I mean do they simply move Detroit back to the West?

According to sportsnet, the players are asking this too. And, withholding their approval until they see the contingency plan if PHX moves to QUE. I don't blame them for that. Otherwise, they could approve this. Then PHX moves to QUE, and then all of a sudden, the players for the QUE team have lots of travel. The PA wouldn't like that.

 

[Kimota]

Here is a thing i'm wondering about realignment..

What happens when teams finally get back to Quebec City? and another team does make its way to Toronto?

I mean do they simply move Detroit back to the West?

Like I said in my earlier post, they could move the Panthers to QC and The Coyotes to Seattle. And then down the line Blue Jackets to Hamilton/Souther Ontario(then you put Hamilton in the TO division and Tampa in the East 2 Division).

 

[Nordskull]

I remember many here stating "not looking good for you Qc guys".

Well, final answer, month of may, like I posted in the clowns thread.

 

[patnyrnyg]

this was my thought.

How can a division be named the Atlantic and the bruins are not in it. You can see the Atlantic from the city... can't get too much closer.


I want new names! Orr division.

They are not in the Atlantic now.

WHo cares if they are changing Northeast to Central.

The Cowboys play in the NFC East, The St Louis Rams in the NFC West, and the Indianapolis Colts play in the NFC South. Is it hurting the NFL at all?

 

[patnyrnyg]

Actually, it's pretty easy to do it, although not in the way described entirely. One team in each division in the West will play two of their opponents in the division four times. For both of those opponents, that team is the one they play 4 against. The team that gets two intradivision opponents 4 times also gets one extra game against the team in the other division in the same circumstance.

For example.

Team|Div 5x|Div 4x|Conf 3x|Conf 4x
ANA|LAK, SJS, PHX, VAN, CGY|EDM|All|None
LAK|ANA, SJS, PHX, VAN, EDM|CGY|All|None
SJS|ANA, LAK, PHX, CGY, EDM|VAN|All|None
PHX|ANA, LAK, SJS, CGY, EDM|VAN|All|None
VAN|ANA, LAK, CGY, EDM|SJS, PHX|CHI, COL, DAL, MIN, STL, WPG|NSH
CGY|ANA, SJS, PHX, VAN, EDM|LAK|All|None
EDM|LAK, SJS, PHX, VAN, CGY|ANA|All|None
| | | |
CHI|COL, DAL, MIN, NSH, STL|WPG|All|None
COL|CHI, DAL, MIN, NSH, WPG|STL|All|None
DAL|CHI, COL, MIN, STL, WPG|NSH|All|None
MIN|CHI, COL, DAL, STL, WPG|NSH|All|None
NSH|CHI, COL, STL, WPG|DAL, MIN|ANA, LAK, SJS, PHX, CGY, EDM|VAN
STL|CHI, DAL, MIN, NSH, WPG|COL|All|None
WPG|COL, DAL, MIN, NSH, STL|CHI|All|None

There are ways to get around it. They could have the 29 games for each team as planned. However, the team from each division that winds up with 30 each, will only play each other twice. So, if Chicago and Anaheim are the "odd teams out" when it comes to their division fine. Instead of playing 3 times, Chicago and Anaheim would just play twice. The only REAL problem this could cause is if the team with the extra game was involved in a tie-breaker situation and division record came into play. A simple solution for that would be to use % instead of points in division games. So, in this case if it was Chicago and the Blues tied. If Chicago had 33 points in division games, but St Louis only had 31, you would do 32 divided by 60 for Chicago and 31 divided by 58 for St Louis.

However, I seriously doubt the idiots in the NHL office even realized that there was a problem. They just came up with the idea for 29 games and left it at that. Hence, why they REALLY need to do some mock schedules before releasing info.

 

[patnyrnyg]

They're planning on revisiting this in 2015. My guess would be that Colorado would bump to the Pacific and both Detroit and Columbus bump back West if QC and TO do get teams.

I wouldn't be surprised if Illitch and the BJ's owner (don't know who it is, sorry) were told, "We will put you in the east for now. However, if Quebec or Toronto/Hamilton/wherever in the east gets a team, then Detroit goes back to the west, and if they both get teams then Columbus goes back." Assuming all else is equal. So if Quebec gets an expansion team, but <insert any east team> moves West, then we will re-visit.

 

[Nordskull]

I wouldn't be surprised if Illitch and the BJ's owner (don't know who it is, sorry) were told, "We will put you in the east for now. However, if Quebec or Toronto/Hamilton/wherever in the east gets a team, then Detroit goes back to the west, and if they both get teams then Columbus goes back." Assuming all else is equal. So if Quebec gets an expansion team, but <insert any east team> moves West, then we will re-visit.

Or, could they set the time of the games to accomodate the Wings, the Jackets, playing west? Not possible because of TV of course.

I understand the Wings point of view. Should Detroit be east of Columbus, they would be fine..

 

[MNNumbers]

I remember many here stating "not looking good for you Qc guys".

Well, final answer, month of may, like I posted in the clowns thread.

I hope you are right. But, do you have a source?

 

[Henkka]

I wouldn't be surprised if Illitch and the BJ's owner (don't know who it is, sorry) were told, "We will put you in the east for now. However, if Quebec or Toronto/Hamilton/wherever in the east gets a team, then Detroit goes back to the west, and if they both get teams then Columbus goes back." Assuming all else is equal. So if Quebec gets an expansion team, but <insert any east team> moves West, then we will re-visit.

They also could have said:

"So we put both those Florida teams to showcase them to Canadian Millionaries at "Canadian division" and we will sell them to Quebec and Hamilton/Markham, when the price is right."

"When the organizations are already put to the new Central, we don't have to juggle those god damn divisions."

***

Just imagine. Ontario-based Steven Stamkos to lead a franchise at Hamilton/Markham and Quebec-based Jonathan Huberdeau to lead the franchise at Quebec. Not to Mention that Stamkos is from Markham, but I still see Hamilton as a better fit.

Two teams with operating loss over 10 million dollars a year transfers to a Canadian lucrative hockey market.

Then move that Phoenix (operating loss of over 20 million a year) to Seattle, to at least even Hockey market.

NHL would absolutely flourish financially after those moves.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Or, could they set the time of the games to accomodate the Wings, the Jackets, playing west? Not possible because of TV of course.

I understand the Wings point of view. Should Detroit be east of Columbus, they would be fine..

I guess they could make a point to try to make the west coast games on weekends, so maybe they could start at 5 local time, so 8 detroit time. But, that would entail multiple trips out west. Make all the Central time zone games start at 7 instead of 7:30, so 8 in detroit. 1/2 hour, but that could be a big difference for a Wings fan that wakes up early.

The other thing is to make Detroit's national broadcasts (NBC, NBCS) ONLY when they play on the west coast. This way, their local carrier gets the home games AND all the central time zone road games. I haven't looked it up, but I would think 8/8:30 starts get MUCH better ratings than 10/10:30.

 

[patnyrnyg]

They also could have said:

"So we put both those Florida teams to showcase them to Canadian Millionaries at "Canadian division" and we will sell them to Quebec and Hamilton/Markham, when the price is right."

"When the organizations are already put to the new Central, we don't have to juggle those god damn divisions."

***

Just imagine. Ontario-based Steven Stamkos to lead a franchise at Hamilton/Markham and Quebec-based Jonathan Huberdeau to lead the franchise at Quebec. Not to Mention that Stamkos is from Markham, but I still see Hamilton as a better fit.

Two teams with operating loss over 10 million dollars a year transfers to a Canadian lucrative hockey market.

Then move that Phoenix (operating loss of over 20 million a year) to Seattle, to at least even Hockey market.

NHL would absolutely flourish financially after those moves.

Could be, but Tampa is doing very well, has a strong owner, and a pretty good fanbase of their own, along with the transplants. I doubt they are going anywhere anytime soon. Not sure on the Florida situation.

 

[Henkka]

Could be, but Tampa is doing very well, has a strong owner, and a pretty good fanbase of their own, along with the transplants. I doubt they are going anywhere anytime soon. Not sure on the Florida situation.

Yes, I also see Florida more probable to move to Quebec and Tampa to stay at their position.

Expansion to Hamilton/Markham and Phoenix to Seattle and another expansion to West. That would push Detroit back to Midwest, but before that, let's enjoy these years again with East.

 

[Crayton]

In the short term, should Phoenix move to Quebec, I'd see Colorado shift to the Pacific and the new Quebec team be the ETZ team in the "Midwest" division. Those Redwings and Bluejackets fought hard to get into the east. Quebec would have a Canadian partner in Winnipeg (go WHL!). But I say "short term" because... who knows what other relocation/expansion is on the horizon.

Conferences are arraigned by time zone, without regard to equal number of teams, or chances of any given team of making the playoffs. This alignment is strictly about time zones, nothing more, other considerations had to be thrown out the window. As for scheduling regular season play, it will be flexible, as the three western-most conferences are generally treated as one conference for scheduling proposes, with certain adjustments being made to maintain a fair number of EST-CST match-ups. (This, admittedly, also contradicts my previous argument of needing a wide variety of playoff match-ups, at least as far as three of the conferences go, but oh well. This alignment also goes completely out the window - likely to be thrown out - if Phoenix is moved anywhere out of the Mountain time zone, but I'm counting on that not happening. It is ready-made to accommodate expansion markets in any the three western-most zones - preferably both in the CST if odds of making the playoffs are an absolute consideration - though this might result in one or two conferences having an odd number of teams, and makes no consideration for the possibilities of Quebec or a second Toronto team.)

EST (16 teams, no divisions - Top eight make the playoffs, & play in their own bracket)

CST (6 teams - Top four make the playoffs, & play in their own bracket in the first two rounds)

MST (4 teams - Top two make the playoffs, & play in the first round, meets PST winner in second round *see note above about

PST (4 teams, same deal as MST)

The first-round of the playoffs in 2012, assuming all else was equal, would have looked like this:

EST
01 NY Rangers vs. 08 Washington
04 Boston vs. 05 Detroit
------
02 Pittsburgh vs. 07 Florida
03 Philadelphia vs. 06 New Jersey

CST
01 St. Louis vs. 04 Dallas
02 Nashville vs. 03 Chicago

MST
01 Phoenix vs. 02 Calgary

PST
01 Vancouver vs. 02 San Jose

(You'll notice the eventual Cup winner in real-time, LA, doesn't make it in under this alignment. Well, they were the eight-seed, and there are a lot of scenarios where they wouldn't have made it in under the proposed alignments floated about. If standings were arraigned, firstly, but number of wins as it should be, LA wouldn't have made it under the current alignment. And, yes, occasionally a real dog like last year's Calgary & Dallas teams might make it in, in lieu of perhaps most deserving teams in other conferences, but that's really no different than it is now.)

I like it, except for the Central division automatically getting 2/3 of their teams into the playoffs. Make it half, and send a league-wide wild card into the #4 spot. Also, you can combine the MTZ and PTZ 'divisions' because 4 is just TOO small to have half your division make the playoffs.

ETZ (not sure why you bracketed the first round)
01 NY Rangers vs. 08 Washington
02 Pittsburgh vs. 07 Florida
03 Philadelphia vs. 06 New Jersey
04 Boston vs. 05 Detroit

CTZ
01 St. Louis vs. 04 Ottawa (top team in league) / Calgary (top team in west) / Dallas (#4 CTZ)
02 Nashville vs. 03 Chicago

MTZ/PTZ
01 Vancouver vs. 04 Los Angeles (eventual champ)
02 Phoenix vs. 03 San Jose

 

[Nordskull]

Yes, I also see Florida more probable to move to Quebec and Tampa to stay at their position.

Expansion to Hamilton/Markham and Phoenix to Seattle and another expansion to West. That would push Detroit back to Midwest but before that let's enjoy these years again with East.

Some say we may not look at the right place but I mean... This would be a total surprise.

I'd LOVE Huberdeau in Qc city. Certainly, this is just a dream.

 

[Nordskull]

I hope you are right. But, do you have a source?

You mean, when I post "final answer month of may"?

My own comment.

 

[GKJ]

They just said on sportnets that NHLPA is holding an agreement, wanting to have a contengency plan should the Coyotes move to Québec City.

Finally. Someone has some sense here. There shouldn't be any agreement unless a contingency plan is part of it or everyone knows what's happening in Phoenix. This all becomes pointless if we're fitting Quebec City back into the East. Although, in the 90s, no one had a problem with an emergency realignment to make sure the Avalanche weren't in the Eastern Conference, for any amount of time.

 

[ThirtyFive]

I don't get the need for a wildcard. Since we're going to two conferences with two divisions each, thankfully, why not simply have the top four in each division make the playoffs and then they're seeded according to points and stuff. And then we play the normal 1 vs. 8 and so on. No divisional playoffs please!

 

[patnyrnyg]

Finally. Someone has some sense here. There shouldn't be any agreement unless a contingency plan is part of it or everyone knows what's happening in Phoenix. This all becomes pointless if we're fitting Quebec City back into the East. Although, in the 90s, no one had a problem with an emergency realignment to make sure the Avalanche weren't in the Eastern Conference, for any amount of time.

True on the 95-96 re-alignment. Which is why I do not understand why they couldn't just move Winnipeg to the west and either nashville, columbus, or detroit to the southeast. I know the move was late, but they could have adjusted the schedule. It would not have been that hard. Could have just had Winnipeg swap schedules with whichever team was moving east and make adjustments based on building availability. Could have been done in a day or two.

 

[Shockmaster]

I don't get the need for a wildcard. Since we're going to two conferences with two divisions each, thankfully, why not simply have the top four in each division make the playoffs and then they're seeded according to points and stuff. And then we play the normal 1 vs. 8 and so on. No divisional playoffs please!

Because it allows better teams in stronger divisions to get in over weaker teams in lesser divisions.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I don't get the need for a wildcard. Since we're going to two conferences with two divisions each, thankfully, why not simply have the top four in each division make the playoffs and then they're seeded according to points and stuff. And then we play the normal 1 vs. 8 and so on. No divisional playoffs please!

Because people are whining that it wouldn't be "fair" if the 5th place team in the Atlantic has a better record than the 4th place team in the Central. I say too bad, but they are worried about being fair. Was it fair that Seattle made the play-offs at 7-9 while the Giants and Tampa were left out at 10-6? Probably not, but too bad. That is how the cookie crumbles.

 

[IceAce]

Here is a thing i'm wondering about realignment..

What happens when teams finally get back to Quebec City? and another team does make its way to Toronto?

I mean do they simply move Detroit back to the West?

Don't understand why people talk about QC and Markham like it's some kind of foregone conclusion? If anything, I'd say this realignment shows that's not the case.

Do you really think that the league, after years of Detroit pleading with them to go back East, is going to put the Wings in the East and then yank them back out just a year or two later? Not happening.