Hitchcock vents on McDavid not getting calls

[Aerrol]

Neuters offence? Scoring is unprecedented this season, the highest its been in decades. By no means is this the dead puck era. Try doing what Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth and Bill Guerin were able to do against the dirtiest hacking I've ever seen. I'll say it too, the dirtiest team since the Broadstreet Bullies were the Hitchcock coached Dallas Stars. With Derian Hatcher crosschecking you any time he's in range and getting away with it.

I know we're supposed to rah rah everything the org does but Hitch complaining about infractions is a bit odd.

Did many people here watch the dead puck era Dallas Stars in the 90's? I wonder if the NHL will remind him that hacking, high sticking, hooking, holding cross checking were COACHED in Dallas as a game winning strategy.

I mean if we're being honest here we have a good old fashioned Western Canada head coach that made a career out of some rough and tumble tactics and holding. He loved players to stop opponents anyway they could. Now he hates that?

flame away I guess

Even if how his teams were coached two decades ago were relevant - and its not - its an issue of fairness. It's about damn time someone in this organization has pointed out the God awful double standard stars and especially McDavid face night in and out. If Puljujarvi and Jones weren't literally being called for 'obstruction' for standing there while being interfered with in the SAME GAME you might have a leg to stand on, but you're way off base here.

 

[Aerrol]

Crosby has endured his whole career being called a whiner, a baby, and not getting the calls because he is a strong player that isn't some soccer primadonna falling all over the place because he's touched. McD is the same way. A guy that has pride in his strength, his ability to go through or around people. McD embraces that side of the game and doesn't like going down. The reality is that players that play act and implode upon slightest impact are the ones that get the calls. In hockey or in Soccer.

tbh I'm glad McD is this way. I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want an Arjen Robben professional foul milker here.

I literally could not be a fan of the Calgary Flames and Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I would give up hockey or find another team.

Way off base here too. I've watched Crosby's entire career closely and love the guy but you're kidding yourself if you think young Crosby carried himself the same way McDavid has. Crosby has only started turning the other cheek for the last four or five years. Ovechkin was always the one who toughed it out and played through it. Crosby whined, dived, screamed about every little hook even in 2005-06 when the league called obstruction more than it ever has before or since. Crosby only started learning his lesson about whining after that Philly series where they completed preyed on his irritation to dismantle the pens and take him totally off his game.

 

[Nunymare]

Stop giving them attention, folks.

 

[Aerrol]

Agreed about time but he sure picked an odd game to do it when Horvat simply outplayed and outhustled McDavid for essentially the entire game. The Canucks were simply a far better team last night and they kept their feet moving all game. What would worry me a lot more than complaining after a game where there wasn't much to complain about (in that arena), is a very young rebuilding team that the Canucks iced just gave the rest of the NHL a blueprint how to make McDavid look pretty ineffectual WITHOUT clutching and grabbing.

Lol are you kidding me? The Canucks were literally riding him half the night. Get real.

 

[Little Fury]

Hockey culture demands that's refs "let the players play" which in practice means letting some players cheat and get away with it. Actually requiring refs call the rulebook means that a player like McDavid will draw multiple penalties every night, which means a parade of power plays which doesn't showcase the product well to casual fans the league is courting. Ironically, a league where attitudes like that are the norm will always result in the skill level being dragged down and a worse product, but i don't really see that changing.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They see it, but I think McDavid unintentionally puts them in an uncomfortable position.

Us Oilers fans see this situation evolve every game. In the first few minutes McDavid blows by a defender, who's not prepared for his speed. There's always two responses, probably prompted by the opposing coaches:

1. The opposing forwards are basically told to jam McDavid at the line (i.e., when he's breaking out of the Oilers zone without the puck) so he can't gain speed and separation. They also pin him against the boards for a few extra seconds (or 10 if you're Kesler).
2. Opposing defenders start clawing, flailing, etc... whatever you want to call it as McDavid attacks them wide.

The refs see this and begin to think that if they start calling these infractions, they'll be filling the box all game. I think a lot of them don't want to be that ref so that relax their standards, thinking that McDavid has the ability to fight through it. As a result, they artificially create a higher barrier to McDavid drawing calls because they feel sorry for the defensemen, especially the veterans who can no longer keep up. Remember how much extra interference guys like Niskanen, Suter, and Stralman were allowed to get away with?

Hockey culture demands that's refs "let the players play" which in practice means letting some players cheat and get away with it. Actually requiring refs call the rulebook means that a player like McDavid will draw multiple penalties every night, which means a parade of power plays which doesn't showcase the product well to casual fans the league is courting. Ironically, a league where attitudes like that are the norm will always result in the skill level being dragged down and a worse product, but i don't really see that changing.

These two posts for the win, absolutely nailed it. But the same should apply in the case of Gaudreau and some others. This is the practicality of it. The reality is nobody, certainly not the average or casual fan wants a constant parade to the penalty box and purists tend to find anything but EV play kind of gimmicky and annoying. Show me a game with 15minor penalties and its guaranteed I change the channel. A lot of people are like this as fans. That said the refs should then pay some attention to thresholds, why one team is getting the same calls, the other not, etc. I have no prob if one team gets 5 penalties and the other none if that's what the game circumstance dictated, but I'm sympathetic to one team getting weak calls and the other not getting called for more obvious infractions.

My own personal stress reduction strategy is pretending officials are just a stand up comedy routine. I find it far less upsetting that way.

I'm out again, pitchforks everybody, enjoy.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lol are you kidding me? The Canucks were literally riding him half the night. Get real.

Did Connor take a home pregnancy test?

Yeah I'm really out now. hehe

but jk aside when even you are getting angry, its an angry topic, I mean well with that, you're a stellar poster. But this issue is seemingly boiling over the top. Its not worth getting upset over.

 

[McBeastMode]

What pisses me off is there is absolutely no accountability, for the officiating..
You cannot call them out, in the media or personally, or you get fined..or reprimanded..

Even Donald Trump, can be impeached..

Scenario.. McDavid has a clear breakaway, from center ice..
Defender is 10 feet behind him..
Can't catch him, so he throws his stick..
Trip's up Conner. And he crashes into the net...

No penalty is called....Fans litter the ice with beer cups and garbage...
After the non call, Hitch and the rest of the team, the fans, and the media is furious, but nothing can be done....

Because the officials are untouchable and unaccountable for their actions..

This has to change....

 

[bone]

These two posts for the win, absolutely nailed it. But the same should apply in the case of Gaudreau and some others. This is the practicality of it. The reality is nobody, certainly not the average or casual fan wants a constant parade to the penalty box and purists tend to find anything but EV play kind of gimmicky and annoying. Show me a game with 15minor penalties and its guaranteed I change the channel. A lot of people are like this as fans. That said the refs should then pay some attention to thresholds, why one team is getting the same calls, the other not, etc. I have no prob if one team gets 5 penalties and the other none if that's what the game circumstance dictated, but I'm sympathetic to one team getting weak calls and the other not getting called for more obvious infractions.

This is a good point. It makes one wonder if the league needs to consider different ways to give temporary advantages to teams when the other team commits a foul. In hockey, a 2 minute penalty is just too disruptive to the flow of the game and as a result no one really wants everything to be called. And frankly powerplays aren't all that entertaining as it is typically one team passing around the puck for an extended period until the other team ices the puck and kills 20 seconds.

In football, there are 5 yard, 10 yard, and 15 yard penalties. In basketball a foul results in free throws or an in-bound. As a result the refs can call everything, without changing the flow of game much.

Some examples could be:

• free possession in the offensive zone (instead of faceoffs, look up the free ring rule in ringette, it could be done similarly or they could do a free shot similar to soccer).
• They could expand the rulings on penalty shots.
• Make some infraction full serve (i.e. infractions that could injure players like slashing or high sticking as opposed to circumstantial infractions like delay of game).
• Make circumstantial penalties 30 seconds or 1 minute instead of 2 minutes.
• Make icing illegal in some penalty kill scenarios (then combine with free possession)
• One rule I've long been an advocate for, would be that one-goal games can not end on a powerplay. If the winning team is serving a penalty in the final two minutes of a one-goal game, the game continues until the penalty is fully served or one of the teams score beyond when the regular game clock would have expired.

I'm sure there's many other ideas out there, but lots of these would be punitive actions that wouldn't change the flow of game drastically. I know it's gimmicky, but maybe they need to get more creative on how to penalize illegal play without turning the game into just a special teams game.

 

[Oilhawks]

Way off base here too. I've watched Crosby's entire career closely and love the guy but you're kidding yourself if you think young Crosby carried himself the same way McDavid has. Crosby has only started turning the other cheek for the last four or five years. Ovechkin was always the one who toughed it out and played through it. Crosby whined, dived, screamed about every little hook even in 2005-06 when the league called obstruction more than it ever has before or since. Crosby only started learning his lesson about whining after that Philly series where they completed preyed on his irritation to dismantle the pens and take him totally off his game.

No offense to you or to Crosby but to further your point, Crosby haters don't call him "Cindy Crysby" etc. for his attitude in the past few years. It is definitely referring to the early years when he constantly "wined, dived and screamed" to get calls. No one should have to, and it's an absolute travesty that the reffing has a double standard for Connor due to his unmatched speed. I for one welcome our robot overlords when it comes to reffing in the NHL.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Barkov has drawn 20 and taken.....none.

hmmm.....

can't tell if amazing or ridiculous

 

[frag2]

No offense to you or to Crosby but to further your point, Crosby haters don't call him "Cindy Crysby" etc. for his attitude in the past few years. It is definitely referring to the early years when he constantly "wined, dived and screamed" to get calls. No one should have to, and it's an absolute travesty that the reffing has a double standard for Connor due to his unmatched speed. I for one welcome our robot overlords when it comes to reffing in the NHL.

At least robots theoretically have no emotional component in them and should be able to catch everything

 

[tabs]

The players will do what they’re allowed to do. They will stop what they’re not allowed to do. They significantly reduced the number of players cheating on face offs last year. This myth that we’d get 6 PPs a game just from McDavid is assuming the opposition won’t adjust, which they will. They always do.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This is a good point. It makes one wonder if the league needs to consider different ways to give temporary advantages to teams when the other team commits a foul. In hockey, a 2 minute penalty is just too disruptive to the flow of the game and as a result no one really wants everything to be called. And frankly powerplays aren't all that entertaining.

In football, there are 5 yard, 10 yard, and 15 yard penalties. In basketball a foul results in free throws or an in-bound. As a result the refs can call everything, without changing the flow of game much.

Some examples could be:

• free possession in the offensive zone (instead of faceoffs, look up the free ring rule in ringette, it could be done similarly or they could do a free shot similar to soccer).
• They could expand the rulings on penalty shots.
• One rule I've long been an advocate for, would be that one-goal games can not end on a powerplay. If the winning team is serving a penalty in the final two minutes of a one-goal game, the game continues until the penalty is fully served or one of the teams score beyond when the regular game clock would have expired.

I'm sure there's many other ideas out there, but lots of these would be punitive actions that wouldn't change the flow of game drastically. I know it's gimmicky, but maybe they need to get more creative on how to penalize illegal play without turning the game into just a special teams game.

I'm really trying to stay out of the thread, but when theres a reasonably unique angle like this its hard to avoid.

In basketball you have the how many fouls before team goes to the baseline for foul shots. I don't even know what they call this, not a fan of the sport.

So in hockey for minimal stuff maybe there can be something like 3 warnings accumulated and then everything after that is minor penalties. The 3 three should also result in own zone faceoffs. Another rule could be that if X club got to a certain number of infractions in a period every face off is in their zone. Could be other things like if your club had an infraction on the last play you can't change lines and the same players have to stay out there while the other club has fresh bodies. Theres so many more subtle ways that can be introduced without disrupting the flow, and nature of the whole game. Always wondered why hockey didn't consider other novel ways to deal with infractions other than 2min minor penalties.

All that said, I don't think you and I are concensus on our opinion of PP's. I think younger audiences like more of that and see it as more entertaining. I don't really because I want goals scored to be the result of great plays and excellence on the ice, not arbitrary one sided calls. 5 on 3's I find particularly disruptive and arbitrary influences on goals and outcomes. With most not even being deserved imo. Most times I see a team with a two man advantage it usually feels like almost contrivance and where one or the other, or both penalties were undeserved.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Neuters offence? Scoring is unprecedented this season, the highest its been in decades. By no means is this the dead puck era. Try doing what Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth and Bill Guerin were able to do against the dirtiest hacking I've ever seen. I'll say it too, the dirtiest team since the Broadstreet Bullies were the Hitchcock coached Dallas Stars. With Derian Hatcher crosschecking you any time he's in range and getting away with it.

I know we're supposed to rah rah everything the org does but Hitch complaining about infractions is a bit odd.

Did many people here watch the dead puck era Dallas Stars in the 90's? I wonder if the NHL will remind him that hacking, high sticking, hooking, holding cross checking were COACHED in Dallas as a game winning strategy.

I mean if we're being honest here we have a good old fashioned Western Canada head coach that made a career out of some rough and tumble tactics and holding. He loved players to stop opponents anyway they could. Now he hates that?

flame away I guess

It's evolution. As the game evolves, so should the minds of those involved in it if they want to be relevant.

The dead puck era, and hitches dirty teams from back in the day have nothing to do with the current NHL.

These are the same guys racking their brains to come up with a way to increase scoring, butbut befthey thought about calling games by the rulebook, and not how the refs felt, they decided the goalie pads were the problem.

I don't care what old school hockey was like or how much better it was, in this day and age, I wanna watch guys like McDavid Matthews, Petersson, etc play to the very limits of their abilities. If the NHL was serious about growth, they stop limiting the speed and creativity of this next generation of stars.


Nobody sees their first game of hockey and thinks, "oh man that guy is really good at slowing the other teams superstar down. I'm sure happy he didn't get a chance to make an exciting play."


The NHL needs to decide which direction it wants to take the league, and be consistent. If they want the game called like the dead puck era, great, tell the refs so they stop calling love taps as slashes. If they want to move towards skill being the shining factor, than great, stop letting guys drape themselves all over the opposition without repricussion.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

The players will do what they’re allowed to do. They will stop what they’re not allowed to do. They significantly reduced the number of players cheating on face offs last year. This myth that we’d get 6 PPs a game just from McDavid is assuming the opposition won’t adjust, which they will. They always do.

or they will start scoring on the pk against our atrocious powerplay and we will kindly ask the league to stop calling penalties on Conner.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's evolution. As the game evolves, so should the minds of those involved in it if they want to be relevant.

The dead puck era, and hitches dirty teams from back in the day have nothing to do with the current NHL.

These are the same guys racking their brains to come up with a way to increase scoring, butbut befthey thought about calling games by the rulebook, and not how the refs felt, they decided the goalie pads were the problem.

I don't care what old school hockey was like or how much better it was, in this day and age, I wanna watch guys like McDavid Matthews, Petersson, etc play to the very limits of their abilities. If the NHL was serious about growth, they stop limiting the speed and creativity of this next generation of stars.


Nobody sees their first game of hockey and thinks, "oh man that guy is really good at slowing the other teams superstar down. I'm sure happy he didn't get a chance to make an exciting play."


The NHL needs to decide which direction it wants to take the league, and be consistent. If they want the game called like the dead puck era, great, tell the refs so they stop calling love taps as slashes. If they want to move towards skill being the shining factor, than great, stop letting guys drape themselves all over the opposition without repricussion.

Screw it, heh, I'm engaged again, may as well reply.

Evolution is not one direction. Change does not occur in one uniform way. Waves occur, the same things reoccur. The same things get reinvented.

I'm not trying to slight anybody but you kind of have to be 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 yrs old to witness how much the world is a continual conveyor belt of very similar "changes" that just keep getting repeated and reinvented.

For instance high tempo hockey was not invented by the Oilers, the Canadiens played similar hockey off an on for decades.

The Red Wings circa Howe were the free wheeling team at one time.

Then the Blackhawks in the 60's

Then you had a hockey inversion in the dark days of the Philly Flyers Broadstreet Bullies incarnation. Reinventing hockey in a bad way.

Then the Habs took the game over and played good pace hockey, free flowing, entertaining.

Then the Islanders brought System hockey (which had also happened several times before)

I could go on and on.

Hockey does not reform in one way or one direction or become uniformly a speed game, or a size game, or a skill game. Waves always exist where one team is utilizing a certain approach, has some success, and then others mimic, then that wave dies and another comes out. Often waves exist dynamically at the same time thus the Hawks and Kings winning cups vastly different ways.

AS for the "nobody wants to see that player that shuts down everything?!. One Word, Pronger. Of course people want to see that. Its the flips side of hockey, offense, defense, its its nature.

Of course people want to see that too. unless you're watching hockey only one way, and for one thing, in which case if its only scoring that moves ya then Basketball is a thing.

A final thing. The Dead puck era was death on ice to many people. A lot of people hated it. But it transformed hockey appeal in markets that were non typical, markets where football was more popular, D was more popular, cattle wrestling popular. I talked to many fans of Dallas back then. They thought their brand of hockey was the best thing ever and never had any notion that the form of hockey was very limiting. They loved seeing big D just haul people down, elbow their face into the ice as they're falling down. Derian Hatcher had perfected a hockey related jack hammer move. They loved that shit. They defended it at every turn.
Its a misnomer then to say fans won't like one form or the other. Fans like winning teams, and usually will accept that at any cost to the game.

 

[rboomercat90]

The list of things Hitchcock is willing to do for his team that Mclellan wouldn’t keeps growing.

 

[YakDavid]

My problem is these "veteran plays" means some players get more slack. I watched last night different officiating for both teams. I understand bad calls happen but it should be a rarity. The problem was there were calls that the ref just picked what to call. It wasn't even and was more than they had a strategy to the calls. Felt at times we only get automatic calls and even then we don't get them. There was a player who played the puck before getting on the ice which is a easy call but they ignore it. Then we get a delay of game after the puck hits the glass. I get it refs makes mistakes but it seems we are always on the same side of the call. We watch these "calls" that happen against our players then watch a McDavid shift. Gets hooked, held, and interfered with all the time. Other fans try and argue it happens to all stars but they just don't get the frustration we have. It happens every shift and it hampers McDavids ability to create offense.

 

[Fourier]

Who draws penalties in this league. Matthew Tkachuk. We saw him draw a 6 minute minor for roughling!! He got nothing for any of the crap he pulled. The League is terrified of players policing themselves but they won't do anything about the root cause which is a free license to abuse stars. Many others get similar treatment, but McDavid magnifies things because no one else skates like him.

 

[tabs]

or they will start scoring on the pk against our atrocious powerplay and we will kindly ask the league to stop calling penalties on Conner.

That’s the spirit.

 

[thadd]

No way he's getting fined.
He's not debating a specific play saying that it should be a penalty.
He's talking about a habit that's been adopted by the refs and explaining how it happens and how it isn't intentional.
He went out of his way to say how it isn't the refs fault while pointing out not the fault in the refs but the fault in the system that prevents one of his players from getting a fair shake on a shift-by-shift basis.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Probably time to start diving. Honour be damned, if names like Marchand, Tkachuk (and as evidenced last night rookie Petterson) are drawing more calls than McDavid, it's clear embellishment works.

 

[FrmrPlyr]

Lol are you kidding me? The Canucks were literally riding him half the night. Get real.

Not what I saw. Watched all but about 10 games this year and Connor has had way worse. Horvat was doing something most other teams don't do - he skated WITH Connor and that seemed to disrupt things a lot.

 

[Gret99zky]

This league never passes up the opportunity to embarrass itself.