Hitchcock vents on McDavid not getting calls

[TB12]

Stauffer mentioned last year that the refs are always asking McDavid for autographs before games and he always obliges. Bob made the suggestion that Connor should stop signing for these guys until they start to call the infractions against him.

McDavid must be a great guy because he’s still signing things for all these refs before games apparently. If I was him I think I’d sign a rule book for them the next time they asked me for something autographed.

 

[OilCountry93]

Neuters offence? Scoring is unprecedented this season, the highest its been in decades. By no means is this the dead puck era. Try doing what Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth and Bill Guerin were able to do against the dirtiest hacking I've ever seen. I'll say it too, the dirtiest team since the Broadstreet Bullies were the Hitchcock coached Dallas Stars. With Derian Hatcher crosschecking you any time he's in range and getting away with it.

I know we're supposed to rah rah everything the org does but Hitch complaining about infractions is a bit odd.

Did many people here watch the dead puck era Dallas Stars in the 90's? I wonder if the NHL will remind him that hacking, high sticking, hooking, holding cross checking were COACHED in Dallas as a game winning strategy.

I mean if we're being honest here we have a good old fashioned Western Canada head coach that made a career out of some rough and tumble tactics and holding. He loved players to stop opponents anyway they could. Now he hates that?

flame away I guess

You’re not wrong. Hitch has had a successful career by encouraging clutching, grabbing, and impeding the opposition at every turn and now that that strategy is being used against him it’s not fair? Comes off as a hypocrite.

 

[McBeastMode]

NFL fans react violently, over blatantly inept officiating...

 

[Drivesaitl]

You’re not wrong. Hitch has had a successful career by encouraging clutching, grabbing, and impeding the opposition at every turn and now that that strategy is being used against him it’s not fair? Comes off as a hypocrite.

I'm trying to figure it out honestly, and I didn't use that word, but I expect to be attacked here for rationally calling out his duplicity.

I mean this is Hitchcock complaining about hacking, holding, hooking. Theres no coach I can think of that brought more of this into the NHL game. Most fans here are probably too young to remember how his stars played and the crystal clear tactics they were coached to employ.

 

[Arpeggio]

It doesn't matter what Hitchcock coached teams played like 25 years ago. It wasn't his teams that brought that style of game into the league. At any point the NHL could have decided to start calling obstruction and put an end to that style of play, which they eventually did.

The issue is that if you're going to have a standard for obstruction that will be called, you can't just look the other way when it happens to one player more than everyone else. If Kassian gets hooked and the play is called a penalty, then the same should apply when McDavid gets hooked, regardless of whether it happens more to him. That's the issue, that the rules are not being consistently enforced. And that doesn't just apply across different players; game management has been an issue in the NHL for decades. International hockey is so much better in that regard. A penalty is a penalty, regardless of score, situation, or player.

 

[LaGu]

Neuters offence? Scoring is unprecedented this season, the highest its been in decades. By no means is this the dead puck era. Try doing what Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth and Bill Guerin were able to do against the dirtiest hacking I've ever seen. I'll say it too, the dirtiest team since the Broadstreet Bullies were the Hitchcock coached Dallas Stars. With Derian Hatcher crosschecking you any time he's in range and getting away with it.

I know we're supposed to rah rah everything the org does but Hitch complaining about infractions is a bit odd.

Did many people here watch the dead puck era Dallas Stars in the 90's? I wonder if the NHL will remind him that hacking, high sticking, hooking, holding cross checking were COACHED in Dallas as a game winning strategy.

I mean if we're being honest here we have a good old fashioned Western Canada head coach that made a career out of some rough and tumble tactics and holding. He loved players to stop opponents anyway they could. Now he hates that?

flame away I guess

For me the point isn't really to change what is going on now (even that would be nice).

It's about having the back of your players even if it sometimes will cost you. That has a lot of worth in building relationship between player/coach. It is used a lot amongst coaching in football (soccer for NAs I guess). The coach takes the heat, blame and/or fine and then the player will do almost anything for them.

 

[bone]

Neuters offence? Scoring is unprecedented this season, the highest its been in decades. By no means is this the dead puck era. Try doing what Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth and Bill Guerin were able to do against the dirtiest hacking I've ever seen. I'll say it too, the dirtiest team since the Broadstreet Bullies were the Hitchcock coached Dallas Stars. With Derian Hatcher crosschecking you any time he's in range and getting away with it.

I know we're supposed to rah rah everything the org does but Hitch complaining about infractions is a bit odd.

Did many people here watch the dead puck era Dallas Stars in the 90's? I wonder if the NHL will remind him that hacking, high sticking, hooking, holding cross checking were COACHED in Dallas as a game winning strategy.

I mean if we're being honest here we have a good old fashioned Western Canada head coach that made a career out of some rough and tumble tactics and holding. He loved players to stop opponents anyway they could. Now he hates that?

flame away I guess

I'm pretty sure there is nothing more to Hitchcock's words than him trying to earn his team some favorable calls later on and show his team that he has their backs. I don't think it's relevent to coaching strategies he employed 20 years which were common coaching tactics at the time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It doesn't matter what Hitchcock coached teams played like 25 years ago. It wasn't his teams that brought that style of game into the league. At any point the NHL could have decided to start calling obstruction and put an end to that style of play, which they eventually did.

The issue is that if you're going to have a standard for obstruction that will be called, you can't just look the other way when it happens to one player more than everyone else. If Kassian gets hooked and the play is called a penalty, then the same should apply when McDavid gets hooked, regardless of whether it happens more to him. That's the issue, that the rules are not being consistently enforced. And that doesn't just apply across different players; game management has been an issue in the NHL for decades. International hockey is so much better in that regard. A penalty is a penalty, regardless of score, situation, or player.

You must be young stating this. Back in the 60's 70's in international hockey officiating was so bad all Canada had to do to get penalties was jump on the ice.

It might be better now, I don't watch a ton of international hockey. But objective and balanced officiating rarely exists in any sport I've ever watched. NHL officiating is bad, acknowledged, but it ALWAYS has been and Hitchcock himself took advantage of that for decades.

Hitch is an angel now advocating for hockey purely played without infraction?

Also, 16 yrs ago for the record. Hitch stopped his first Dallas run in 2002.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm pretty sure there is nothing more to Hitchcock's words than him trying to earn his team some favorable calls later on and show his team that he has their backs. I don't think it's relevent to coaching strategies he employed 20 years which were common coaching tactics at the time.

Yeah, just pointing out that there was no team WORSE with the described tactics than the Dallas Stars. There was no team more infuriating than the Dallas Stars of the 90's. If there was name the team. The stars were the worst at dirty, and constant obstruction tactics.

I've never seen a hockey play crosscheck more than Derian Hatcher. I saw Smyth get 10 in one game and stopped counting.

I'm just mentioning it for the people that might not have been around long enough to know.

Its great that Hitch is finding some other legacy here at the end of hockey life, I wish his endeavor well of course because its the Oilers. But the point is he instructed dirty and obstructionist hockey tactics far worse than anything going on now and nobody was more foremost in that hockey movement.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

You must be young stating this. Back in the 60's 70's in international hockey officiating was so bad all Canada had to do to get penalties was jump on the ice.

It might be better now, I don't watch a ton of international hockey. But objective and balanced officiating rarely exists in any sport I've ever watched. NHL officiating is bad, acknowledged, but it ALWAYS has been and Hitchcock himself took advantage of that for decades.

Hitch is an angel now advocating for hockey purely played without infraction?

Also, 16 yrs ago for the record. Hitch stopped his first Dallas run in 2002.

I don't think that's the issue Hitch is complaining about.

The issue is that it's unevenly called.

YES he obstructed and interfered when the entire league did it. YES he won cups employing this strategy. As did Detroit, and New Jersey.

Now that the league seems to be trying to crack down on obstruction, McDavid is targeted as someone who should never draw a penalty for some reason.

The Penguins won back to back cups with Speed and star power.
The Caps won their cup on speed and star power.

The league in the past few years has been trying ot move to more of a speed/skill league. So he's calling out the preferential mistreatment of McDavid. He also did mention if they didn't want to call it, we can pin down their players and make a mockery of the league as well.

 

[Arpeggio]

You must be young stating this. Back in the 60's 70's in international hockey officiating was so bad all Canada had to do to get penalties was jump on the ice.

It might be better now, I don't watch a ton of international hockey. But objective and balanced officiating rarely exists in any sport I've ever watched. NHL officiating is bad, acknowledged, but it ALWAYS has been and Hitchcock himself took advantage of that for decades.

Hitch is an angel now advocating for hockey purely played without infraction?

Also, 16 yrs ago for the record. Hitch stopped his first Dallas run in 2002.

I don't think I'd have to be young to have not watched international hockey in the 60's and 70's. From what I've watched, international hockey today (at least at the World Championship and World Junior Championship level) is fairly reffed. The teams that have the puck most of the game tend to draw the most penalties, even if the score is 5-1. The refs at least don't appear to actively ignore calls based on the player and score. I mean, in the NHL you get refs ignoring obvious high sticks because the offending team is already on the PK and they don't want to give a 5-3 PP. We've all seen that happen enough to know that they're not just missing calls. It's stupid.

Hitchcock didn't say anything about the way the game should be played, all he's saying is that McDavid is experiencing more obstruction than other players in the league, and is not drawing the number of penalties he deserves to be.

 

[Yablo21]

I saw a similar thread on the mains and surprisingly other teams' fans generally agree with us!
When other teams' fans are on our side there must be something wrong going on here.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

Stauffer mentioned last year that the refs are always asking McDavid for autographs before games and he always obliges. Bob made the suggestion that Connor should stop signing for these guys until they start to call the infractions against him.

McDavid must be a great guy because he’s still signing things for all these refs before games apparently. If I was him I think I’d sign a rule book for them the next time they asked me for something autographed.

Refs shouldn’ask for anything from players let alone accept anything.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't think that's the issue Hitch is complaining about.

The issue is that it's unevenly called.

YES he obstructed and interfered when the entire league did it. YES he won cups employing this strategy. As did Detroit, and New Jersey.

Now that the league seems to be trying to crack down on obstruction, McDavid is targeted as someone who should never draw a penalty for some reason.

The Penguins won back to back cups with Speed and star power.
The Caps won their cup on speed and star power.

The league in the past few years has been trying ot move to more of a speed/skill league. So he's calling out the preferential mistreatment of McDavid. He also did mention if they didn't want to call it, we can pin down their players and make a mockery of the league as well.

Crosby has endured his whole career being called a whiner, a baby, and not getting the calls because he is a strong player that isn't some soccer primadonna falling all over the place because he's touched. McD is the same way. A guy that has pride in his strength, his ability to go through or around people. McD embraces that side of the game and doesn't like going down. The reality is that players that play act and implode upon slightest impact are the ones that get the calls. In hockey or in Soccer.

tbh I'm glad McD is this way. I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want an Arjen Robben professional foul milker here.

I literally could not be a fan of the Calgary Flames and Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I would give up hockey or find another team.

 

[TB12]

Refs shouldn’ask for anything from players let alone accept anything.

That has always happened, though. They have always had players signing things for them or their charities. Gretzky was constantly signing things for refs.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, just that it’s always happened.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Anyway, because I'm clearly not in agreement that this is the answer I will remove myself from the thread and others can discuss it. People have made their points, I've made mine, we all think differently.

If anybody wants me to respond or answer any question let me know.

cheers to all you passioned sorts.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Chiarelli needs to email a 30 minute clip of the blatant missed calls this year then hop on a charter for a face to face meet with league officials including Director of Officiating Steven Walkom asking for explanations and demanding the rules be enforced as written.

It worked when Burke went to NY to complain about the treatment the Flames were getting as a team after the Wideman suspension.

The silence on this subject from Chiarelli is maddening and he shows how out of touch he is with the fan base here who have had it and want to see someone fight for what is right for a change.

Nice to see Hitch step up and call those blind mice out.

I’m tired of watching a league protect the rats like Tkachuk x 2, Marchand and Bennett who draw calls from retaliation of their unsportsmanlike conduct and blatant disregard for the rules.

 

[Messrules11]

Yeah, just pointing out that there was no team WORSE with the described tactics than the Dallas Stars. There was no team more infuriating than the Dallas Stars of the 90's. If there was name the team. The stars were the worst at dirty, and constant obstruction tactics.

I've never seen a hockey play crosscheck more than Derian Hatcher. I saw Smyth get 10 in one game and stopped counting.

I'm just mentioning it for the people that might not have been around long enough to know.

Its great that Hitch is finding some other legacy here at the end of hockey life, I wish his endeavor well of course because its the Oilers. But the point is he instructed dirty and obstructionist hockey tactics far worse than anything going on now and nobody was more foremost in that hockey movement.

It really has no bearing at all what Hitch teams or Devils teams did 20 years ago. The game has changed, the clutch and grab era is over, they’ve removed the 2line pass rule and the game is faster than ever. All Hitch did with his comments is say call the game fairly, is that so hard to understand? Bringing up Hatcher crosschecks has nothing to do with the debate at all

 

[CornKicker]

meanwhile refs are calling the blues for illegal equipment when someone uses Poraykos stick. if they can see that detail there is no way they dont see the obvious calls on mcdavid every game.

 

[bone]

Yeah, just pointing out that there was no team WORSE with the described tactics than the Dallas Stars. There was no team more infuriating than the Dallas Stars of the 90's. If there was name the team. The stars were the worst at dirty, and constant obstruction tactics.

I've never seen a hockey play crosscheck more than Derian Hatcher. I saw Smyth get 10 in one game and stopped counting.

I'm just mentioning it for the people that might not have been around long enough to know.

Its great that Hitch is finding some other legacy here at the end of hockey life, I wish his endeavor well of course because its the Oilers. But the point is he instructed dirty and obstructionist hockey tactics far worse than anything going on now and nobody was more foremost in that hockey movement.

Trust me I remember those years and despising that team. I just didn't watch enough other teams to know whether they were truly the worst or whether just seemed that way as our biggest rival who we'd face 8-11 games a year (losing at least 7 of those games each year) during that run.

 

[LaGu]

Anyway, because I'm clearly not in agreement that this is the answer I will remove myself from the thread and others can discuss it. People have made their points, I've made mine, we all think differently.

If anybody wants me to respond or answer any question let me know.

cheers to all you passioned sorts.

You're going over the top with it imo.

Hitchcock himself in his comments specifically spoke about it being a give and go normally, but that this was more than that and that the league needs to consider if it is the way to go or not. Then he said that no matter they will obviously adapt to and deal with whatever the case may be.

I don't see why what Hitch coached before has anything to do with it. He said himself when he came that coaching has to be based on and adapted to the players he has available. And he is a coach who has changed approach on more than one occassion since he is a still (alledgedly) a student of the game and of leadership.

It's pretty odd to judge a guy from what happened so many years ago. I don't know about you but every 10 (even 5) years I seem to change profoundly in what I do and how I do it. Many factors play in, most prominently the environment I am in.

Edit: to be clear I wanted AV as coach, and still did until recently... But you cannot really argue with the record since Hitch took over.

 

[Frank the Tank]

meanwhile refs are calling the blues for illegal equipment when someone uses Poraykos stick. if they can see that detail there is no way they dont see the obvious calls on mcdavid every game.

They see it, but I think McDavid unintentionally puts them in an uncomfortable position.

Us Oilers fans see this situation evolve every game. In the first few minutes McDavid blows by a defender, who's not prepared for his speed. There's always two responses, probably prompted by the opposing coaches:

1. The opposing forwards are basically told to jam McDavid at the line (i.e., when he's breaking out of the Oilers zone without the puck) so he can't gain speed and separation. They also pin him against the boards for a few extra seconds (or 10 if you're Kesler).
2. Opposing defenders start clawing, flailing, etc... whatever you want to call it as McDavid attacks them wide.

The refs see this and begin to think that if they start calling these infractions, they'll be filling the box all game. I think a lot of them don't want to be that ref so that relax their standards, thinking that McDavid has the ability to fight through it. As a result, they artificially create a higher barrier to McDavid drawing calls because they feel sorry for the defensemen, especially the veterans who can no longer keep up. Remember how much extra interference guys like Niskanen, Suter, and Stralman were allowed to get away with?

 

[Louis Cypher]

Good on Hitch. Finally someone sats something. The crap hooking calls that get called on other players when the blatant hooks and slashes go unpunished on MCD is ridiculous. Kassian also. That was a total interference and hook prior to the partial breakaway.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

i kind of understand the refs perspective because he's so freaking deadly he can get a call at any time.

But you can't jsut let a team neautralize a top line player illegally. Or at the very least you can't call penalties against Connor's team for similar offenses.....or BS calls. That becomes a huge disadvantage created by the officials.

But to to Hitchcock's discredit.....a functional PP would go a long way as well.

 

[CornKicker]

They see it, but I think McDavid unintentionally puts them in an uncomfortable position.

Us Oilers fans see this situation evolve every game. In the first few minutes McDavid blows by a defender, who's not prepared for his speed. There's always two responses, probably prompted by the opposing coaches:

1. The opposing forwards are basically told to jam McDavid at the line (i.e., when he's breaking out of the Oilers zone without the puck) so he can't gain speed and separation. They also pin him against the boards for a few extra seconds (or 10 if you're Kesler).
2. Opposing defenders start clawing, flailing, etc... whatever you want to call it as McDavid attacks them wide.

The refs see this and begin to think that if they start calling these infractions, they'll be filling the box all game. I think a lot of them don't want to be that ref so that relax their standards, thinking that McDavid has the ability to fight through it. As a result, they artificially create a higher barrier to McDavid drawing calls because they feel sorry for the defensemen, especially the veterans who can no longer keep up. Remember how much extra interference guys like Niskanen, Suter, and Stralman were allowed to get away with?

i think the most frustrating part from an oilers fan perspective is that literally everytime mcdavid gets the puck hes a treat to score. he makes impossible happen. so everyone one of these interference calls are taking away actual scoring chances.