HHOVG (Hockey Hall of Very Good)

[Iapyi]

Personally, I've looked at both of their careers quite closely recently.

I think Turgeon is underrated by many. He was a consistent prolific point-producer for a long time even if his peak wasn't that high. His peak wasn't exactly LOW, either; he did score 58 goals and 130+ points in a season, albeit it was in the inflated AF 1992-1993 season. Still, you can't just brush aside a 58 goal season.

Alfredsson was putting up a point-per-game pace over about 70/70+ games during the dead puck era. If it hadn't been for injuries, the guy could have hit 80 points quite a few more times.

Overall, it's a close call between, but Alf stands out more because he's Swedish (and happened to win Gold with Team Sweden) and is the face of a franchise.

Pierre was more of a journey-man type who happened to be from a country that has many players in the HOF who were as good or better.

would you mind explaining what country a player comes from has to do with whether or not they should be on the hhof? seems quite odd.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Does Shane doan deserve to at least get credit for the hall and why am I saying that. Cuz he played in a ****** market and that's why I think he belongs in the hhof cuz he played in such a small yet ****** market.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Does Shane doan deserve to at least get credit for the hall and why am I saying that. Cuz he played in a ****** market and that's why I think he belongs in the hhof cuz he played in such a small yet ****** market.

Nope Shane Doan is no where near HHOF caliber

 

[crobro]

Nope Shane Doan is no where near HHOF caliber

Shane Doan is in the Linden,Sanderson,Goring tier of players.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Shane Doan is in the Linden,Sanderson,Goring tier of players.

I'd induct goring in a heartbeat guy was reliable in the playoffs has a conn smythe, I think he has another trophy can't remember which one. Sanderson ain't a hall of famer. Doan because he played in such a horrible market is why I'm putting him in that conversation. Linden no, bondra id induct before linden. Even johnny leclair id induct before linden.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I'd induct goring in a heartbeat guy was reliable in the playoffs has a conn smythe, I think he has another trophy can't remember which one. Sanderson ain't a hall of famer. Doan because he played in such a horrible market is why I'm putting him in that conversation. Linden no, bondra id induct before linden. Even johnny leclair id induct before linden.

Sorry Leclair is far more deserving than any of the other guys in this post

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Sorry Leclair is far more deserving than any of the other guys in this post

LeClair probably gets enshrined eventually, now that both Lindros and Kariya are in.

 

[Sentinel]

Of the players mentioned on this page, I rank:

Leclair

Goring
Alfredsson
Bondra
Turgeon
Sanderson

Doan

 

[Neutrinos]

Of the players mentioned on this page, I rank:

Leclair

Goring
Alfredsson
Bondra
Turgeon
Sanderson

Doan

Ignoring Turgeon's first few years in the league, let's just look at their stats from the time Bondra entered the league in '91 to their respective retirements during the '07 season:

Bondra scored 503 goals, 892 points in 1081 games

Turgeon scored 427 goals, 1091 points in 1058 games

 

[Giotrapani91]

Of the players mentioned on this page, I rank:

Leclair

Goring
Alfredsson
Bondra
Turgeon
Sanderson

Doan

Sanderson ahead of doan, Doan did a lot more in his career than Sanderson.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Ignoring Turgeon's first few years in the league, let's just look at their stats from the time Bondra entered the league in '91 to their respective retirements during the '07 season:

Bondra scored 503 goals, 892 points in 1081 games

Turgeon scored 427 goals, 1091 points in 1058 games

Turgeon has the longevity to make it in the hall he just needs more time. I mean he has over 1'300 points.

 

[VanIslander]

Bondra scored 503 goals, 892 points in 1081 games

Turgeon scored 427 goals, 1091 points in 1058 games

I saw them both throughout their careers and I'd say the difference is: Bondra's speed and finishing ability versus Turgeon's hockey sense and perimeter play.

Bondra is more hustle and Turgeon more thoughtful.

I loved Bondra more but he lacked hockey sense was often easy to counter by the opposition, especially in big games. As a Caps fan since Langway joined them I was disappointed a bit in Bondra, he relying on teammates like Pivonka to generate scoring opportunities.

However much I detest Turgeon's lack of grit and lack of determination to play through traffic, he dang well knew what to do with the puck when pressured.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Of the players mentioned on this page, I rank:

Leclair

Goring
Alfredsson
Bondra
Turgeon
Sanderson

Doan

Alfredsson
LeClair
Turgeon

Bondra
Doan
Goring
Sanderson

Maybe I'm underrating Goring, but I don't think so.

 

[seventieslord]

Alfredsson
LeClair
Turgeon

Bondra
Doan
Goring
Sanderson

Maybe I'm underrating Goring, but I don't think so.

The only complaint I would have about your list is you probably are underrating Goring.

 

[Giotrapani91]

What about Thomas steen does he have a shot.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

What about Thomas steen does he have a shot.

Outside shot of HHOVG. Zero shot at HHOF

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The only complaint I would have about your list is you probably are underrating Goring.

Perhaps I could see him over Bondra and Doan, but definitely not in the Alfredsson, LeClair, or (yuck) Turgeon range.

Doan is one of the hardest players for me to rate, as how many players with a solid overall game spent the better part of a decade as the clear cut best player on a crappy team, while still being well below HHOF level?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I'd induct goring in a heartbeat guy was reliable in the playoffs has a conn smythe, I think he has another trophy can't remember which one. Sanderson ain't a hall of famer. Doan because he played in such a horrible market is why I'm putting him in that conversation. Linden no, bondra id induct before linden. Even johnny leclair id induct before linden.

Why does Doan get bonus points for playing in a terrible market? That really makes no sense. If anything, it is almost a negative in the sense that he could have moved to a contender with a chance to win late in his career, but chose the status quo of playing in a no-pressure market for a team with no expectations of success.

 

[MXD]

What has caused Geoff Sanderson to be mentionned in the first place?

 

[seventieslord]

Perhaps I could see him over Bondra and Doan, but definitely not in the Alfredsson, LeClair, or (yuck) Turgeon range.

Doan is one of the hardest players for me to rate, as how many players with a solid overall game spent the better part of a decade as the clear cut best player on a crappy team, while still being well below HHOF level?

Without looking too closely, I wonder how many seasons Doan was actually the team's clear cut best player. They had Numminen until 2003, Tkachuk until 2002, OEL the last 7 years, Burke and Mike Smith flirting with eliteness, Roenick was there for 4 years, Yandle was really good for a while, Ray Whitney in 2011-12...

Aside from 07-08 and 08-09, which seem obvious it was Doan's team, I'm not sure where else I could say that.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Without looking too closely, I wonder how many seasons Doan was actually the team's clear cut best player. They had Numminen until 2003, Tkachuk until 2002, OEL the last 7 years, Burke and Mike Smith flirting with eliteness, Roenick was there for 4 years, Yandle was really good for a while, Ray Whitney in 2011-12...

Aside from 07-08 and 08-09, which seem obvious it was Doan's team, I'm not sure where else I could say that.

Eh, I guess you could argue Numminem or OEL for an extended period of time. Perhaps I should have said "clearcut best forward." That's basically what I meant anyway - that he was the driver of offense for his team, while most wingers with similar stats spent at least some amount of time playing with centers who were at least as good as they were.

See this thread by matnor, on the most times a player led his team in scoring. For some reason, I remembered Doan as pretty much standing alone as a clear cut non-HHOFer who led his team in scoring 7+ times, but I remembered wrong. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1580739

Anyway, this is as of 2012-13, the most times an eligible non-HHOFer led his team in scoring:

Yashin 9
Roenick, Weight 8
Doan, Naslund, Satan, Turgeon, Whitney 7

Then when I see Doan is tied with Satan and Whitney and below Yashin, it makes the achievement basically meaningless, except other than Roenick (who legit has a shot at the HHOF eventually, unlike Doan), Doan is the only one of these guys to lead his team in scoring so many times "honestly," by playing an all-round game.

Again, it's largely trivia, but when a player leads his team in scoring this many times, I do think a bit more highly of him than a player who put up similar stats, while surrounded by talent.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Why does Doan get bonus points for playing in a terrible market? That really makes no sense. If anything, it is almost a negative in the sense that he could have moved to a contender with a chance to win late in his career, but chose the status quo of playing in a no-pressure market for a team with no expectations of success.

Mogilny played in two bad markets buffalo, and Vancouver at the time wasn't a good market all they had when mogilny came in were linden, and Bure.

 

[crobro]

Bernie Nichols should be in HHOF as should Alex Mogilny.

 

[Iapyi]

Why does Doan get bonus points for playing in a terrible market? That really makes no sense. If anything, it is almost a negative in the sense that he could have moved to a contender with a chance to win late in his career, but chose the status quo of playing in a no-pressure market for a team with no expectations of success.

i know what you're saying and agree completely that playing in a terrible market shouldn't give him bonus points, at the same time showing loyalty shouldn't be a negative either.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Mogilny played in two bad markets buffalo, and Vancouver at the time wasn't a good market all they had when mogilny came in were linden, and Bure.

And...?

Mogilny is not in the HOF and probably never will be. I don't think playing in bad markets (Buffalo and Vancouver are not generally seen as bad markets anyway) has anything to do with it.