HFNHL pending deals

[MatthewFlames]

Nice senor Matt and Happy birthday

Gracias Senor Alvaro....

 

[Wildman]

Amigo those 2 guy are Franchise to me.....a yes and Taylor Hall too

Taylor Hall who looked ugly a month ago when he was injured and Handsome Alvaro put him up for trade should I pull the board on this one Alvaro?

 

[Dempsey]

Ellis is going to be a good one. I drafted him, and didn't want to trade him, but he was a key part in a good trade for me. He gets undervalued.

 

[Dryden]

I already think he got the better end of the deal. Doughty is good but in real life he's worth more than he is in the sim.

Time will tell and both GM's have the right to do what they want. As long as the league approves of course.

 

[Ohio Jones]

Rumours out of Ohio suggest the Jackets are done trading, with two deals pending approval. The team made a splash last week picking up Franzen, Little and Nielsen, but had been shut out of the talks over elite players this week. In the end, it's suggested GM Doug Emerson went with a couple of value acquisitions to round out the team's playoff push, rather than dip further into the team's dwindling prospect pool. But will it be enough to keep up with the big-spending competition in an already insanely tough conference?

Said one fan on hearing the names rumoured to be coming: "Watch out - we're ready to kick ass and take... umm... drink orders. Or something like that."

 

[DiamondJoeQuimby]

When I read the posts in this thread regarding the two trades completed on the weekend, I almost went through the 7 stages of grief.

Shock and denial ("I'm not that much of an idiot, am I ?")

Anger ("Why the F do I have to answer to any other GM? It's my team and my players ...")

Reconstruction (" Ok, I can see why some would be upset... I should explain my reasoning...")

I really hope you reconsider your decision. As others have mentioned this is a fantastic league and I'm sure you get a lot of enjoyment interacting with the fine gentlemen (and Alvaro) that are your fellow GMs ........
.... also you might be wise to at least rob me of someone like Tavares before you leave.

It might lessen the bitter taste in your mouth.

No thanks on Tavares, I don't have any use for one-way forwards who don't play any defense.

Time for a long story....

I'm 29 and I joined my first GM type league in 1997 when I was 15 years old fearlessly competing against adults. The HFNHL was only the 4th GM type league I've been a part of in the past 15 years. I don't go quitting leagues when the first thing doesn't go my way. That first league I joined was called the PCHL. I only won 1 playoff series in 4 calendar years, which was over 10 seasons (we played multiple seasons on the same years ratings) and I kept coming back for more. That league ended about 1 year after a league "Civil War." I stuck with the original until it ended.

Then I joined the "rebel" league called FLASH. I came in the 3rd season and finished in last. Then in the 4th I pulled off a worst to first and won the division but lost in the 1st round again. In the 5th season I made a boneheaded trade and was out of the playoffs for the next 2 seasons. No didn't quit in frustration there either. When I was bad, I luckily asked for Mike Knuble as part of a deal and then he broke out in the NHL. Combined with some other breakout guys (Willie Mitchell, Scott Hannan, Andy Sutton) and I had a powerhouse team. That powerhouse lost a Game 7 of the Conference Final, Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final, Game 7 of the Conference Final again and a Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final again. That league was awesome, one of the best things about it was it had great parity and there no were no repeat champions until the very end. Both of my Cup Final losses were to repeat champs, I was 2 Game 7 victories away from being the only repeat champion. But it didn't happen and the lockout killed the league off.

After the lockout, during the 2007 playoffs one of the old FLASH GM's contacted me about joining a FHL league (later SimonT simulator) that seemed like it was right up my alley. It had AHL teams, the entry draft, prospect pools, stuff that I hadn't seen done before. I jumped right in and faced a Herculean task of rebuilding. I wasn't doing a great job, but did a good job in my 3 years and shockingly led a team full of checkers and grinders plus Brad Richards, Timonen and Souray to a playoff spot in the 09-10 season. Then the next season I loaded up for a good playoff run. I had a very good team and then the Sim got me (and REALLY got me), dead last in the entire league (you think your Flames have it bad Matt). I was pretty damn unhappy, didn't have my 1st round pick. The things I didn't care for really started sticking out, a couple of guys who kept pillaging new GMs when they came in and were allowed to get away with it, an asinine salary cap system that allows Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Kane, Lidstrom, Stamkos, Jack Johnson and Carey Price to be on the same team and other teams to have a 100 million payroll. Needless to say that was quickly becoming no fun. About 1/4 of the GMs have left the No Fun League since I did.

That's when I noticed that there was a league here. I didn't post a lot here but I read the boards frequently, and paid attention to prospects here for draft purposes. I combed through the trade log and the rosters pretty extensively and liked what I saw. Saw some good teams obviously but much more realistic teams. Your ratings package was and still is far superior, you had a somewhat realistic UFA system and agents. So I jumped in and applied and promptly got the hell out of the No Fun League. I didn't care what team I ended up with, it was going to be better than the No Fun League.

I thought long and hard about what was the appropriate way to describe my rationale in making these moves. I didn't want to disparage the players I traded away (Alvaro's probably already shopping Doughty), I did not want to bring up examples of other NHL players that would impact their trade value within the HFNHL for my fellow general managers.

First off, thanks to Sean K, Doug, Rich and Adil for explaining/justifying some of my reasoning behind these moves.

I made the following trades because I felt it is in my best interest to rebuild my team and to create a team that has some depth beyond an elite forward, d-man and goalie. This is a new sim to me, but from my past experiences, depth and players that play specific roles ensure the greatest success as opposed to just pure star power.

Less than 12 months ago, there was a team with a couple elite forwards, a Norris trophy winning defenseman, and a pretty good goaltender. That team squeaked into the playoffs in 7th spot and took the Panthers to 7 games before losing. Then that offseason they built up their supporting player and shopped in the bargain bins. Then he made a great decision and did what he had wanted to do since getting the team, get the two best forwards he owned on the same line while still having good 2nd and 3rd lines behind them, and the team went on an incredible run. That's my former team of course.

I have a multi-year plan where things will get worse before they get better, but my goal is to be competitive year in and year out once the pain subsides.

I'll address the Doughty trade specifically because I feel I can use examples of other players without negatively affecting their trade value.

A year after the 2008 draft, the consensus would have been that LA would have been mad to trade Doughty in a package that included Tyler Myers as the main piece. After Myers' rookie season, there would be some that thought that Myers plus a top ten/top five pick for Doughty, might be a bad idea for Buffalo.

Look at the other d-men in that draft, Alex Pietrangelo's breakthrough year happened two years after Doughty's. Karlsson's 3 years. Hell, Zach Bogosian might still end up being the best of the bunch.

My point is that I think with young players, it's hard to accurately gauge their value until they are 25-26. They have ups and downs.

There's an old saying that whoever gets the best player in the deal, wins the trade. Doughty is the best player in the deal today and will likely be that way in 5 years and in 10 years.

However, I'm taking a chance that having a potential top pairing d-man (but not a future perennial Norris hopeful like Doughty) in Ellis, a top line winger in Nino and a < 25 d-man in Franson who is just now finding his stride (could end up a solid #4), coupled with the financial flexibility, will be better for my team in the long run than Doughty winning multiple HFNHL Norris Trophies.

It doesn't hurt that my team is worse today, which helps my first round pick as well.

Hope that makes some sense.

So you're saying that Doughty will be the best player for years to come, then why did you move him?

Here's a 22 year old defensemen who was already a Norris finalist once, and a 40 goal scorer in his prime, and the best player you got back is on pace for 40 points this NHL season and is in the doghouse. For some reason you didn't seem to mention him at all

None of the prospects that you got can play now and none of them will be ready next HFNHL season and maybe not even the season after that. Ryan Ellis won't be a top pairing defenseman, he's not going to be able to go against the other teams top line every night. Neiderreiter I like, but he's done nothing this season and probably should not be in the NHL right now. Plus there aren't many Islanders I'd be interested in acquiring because their a bad team, and they've screwed up a good number of previous prospects already.

Cody Franson is an NHLer, but he's not even a top 4 defenseman and probably won't be because of his skating.

McFarland is going to make Florida before guys like Huberdeau and Nick Bjugstad?

I don't even know who Macek and Engstrand are, why were they involved in this?

As for why I don't want to be a GM anymore, deals like this really tick me off. I've seen plenty of them from newbies over the years (and if you never used the sim before coming in you're a newbie, I'm pretty newbie on the sim too, this was only the 2nd season I played on it). They shouldn't be allowed to happen in the first place, that's why there's a trade committee. Second they're an insult to everyone else in the league who is working hard trying to get to the top. Third they destroy the fun factor. What's fun about seeing a couple guys plunder stars from a new GM for next to nothing in return?

I don't feel that a league that allows these plundering type deals to stand is worth being in. Not worth the time and a little bit of money on magazines, draft previews, etc.

 

[Wildman]

For your information, Keith is not a newbie to this league. He was once proud GM of Ottawa that you currently own and he won the cup with the team.

 

[HFNHLOilers]

I think the deal is good Winnipeg has very little talent outside if doughty, taveres, fluery. He has zero organizational depth this adds a top 4 dman and top 6forward to the mix plus a decent defender. If i didnt have the depth id probably do a deal like that for Toews though id fetch more as hes a center and is a premier player yes Doughty is a top dman but has struggled the one year he challenged for the norris is is best season obviously hell have more but why pay 1star 7mill amd have zero help when you can have 2 or 3 scoring by committe for the same price

 

[MatthewFlames]

As a funny aside, Robb and I met in the PCHL in 1997 (if it was the same league)

 

[MatthewFlames]

Well Matt - thanks for posting your story.

Firstly let me say that this incident (which in my opinion isn't even an incident) certainly doesn't make the HFNHL the No Fun League. The HFNHL is by far the best and most stable fantasy hockey league of its kind on the net.

Of course the HFNHL may be the Full Fun League but it is also the All Drama All the time league. It has withstood owner and commissioner changes. Sim crashes and data losses. The lockout and more than its fair share of conflict between GM's and between GM's and the league.

I once quit because I had no time and so after a couple of years away I came back even though I had less time. And when I had EVEN less time I took up being the Sim Manager. I've almost quit a couple of times myself since then but never over something as trivial as a disagreement over my PERSPECTIVE of player value. And I apologize that that comment may seem condescending but I do believe it to be the truth. This really is the White Girl problem of all White Girl problems to have.

The two guys who run the DoPP office do it despite knowing that it will bring nothing into their lives but a ****storm of anger and hostility. And they do a great job. And their knowledge of hockey and players is unrivaled.

We have a handful of original GM's who are themselves coming up for the aforementioned 15 years into building their teams. The vast majority of GM's can claim 7 or more years. And all of these GM's can attest to many things - most importantly just how fun this place is. You'll notice on Facebook and by the messages on this forum - this place has also become a place for a big group of friends to hang out.

Friends in real life. I've met half the guys in this league in person - and have continued to be friends with some who are no longer here.

From Tony traveling around the world to visit us, to Doug reading my scripts and being a shoulder for me to cry on during a break up, to Nick helping me with my new business, to Robb and his wife spending New Years with me, to shopping for a vineyard with Alvaro, to getting killed (over and over) by Zac in COD, to Jeff almost winning my fantasy football league this year, to chatting daily with Dyden, Brock and others, to Keogh owing me fifty bucks and much much more.

We have GM's from all over the world who you would probably never meet any other way. It's too bad that you are not fully able to fully enjoy and appreciate all that the HFNHL has to offer.

 

[Ohio Jones]

Deleted, sent to Matt instead.

 

[Dryden]

I wish I could write like Matt and Doug...

But I don't have that much to say.

I will say this though. Growing up in the hood at the ripe old age of 2, or was it 3, I had the only set of hockey sticks and net on the ghetto I grew up in. Yep. I really lived in a ghetto in Toronto. Anyhow, as my mom likes to remind me if no kids played the game by the rules, which meant my way of playing I grabbed my sticks and net and went home. Sure was a lot of fun playing hockey by myself. Didn't work then. Doesn't work now.

So if you don't want to be part of Kershaws imaginary friends and you don't like any other leagues start your own. Control every team and trade. Run the asylum your way but it will never ever be this league. Best there is by far. With a 28 guys I'm glad to say I know. I'll let you think who the 1 is for yourself.

 

[kasper11]

I don't really see a need to defend the league like others. You are upset because you don't like a trade that two other, experienced GMs made, and you want to leave because of it?

Bye.

 

[HFNHLOilers]

to getting killed (over and over) by Zac in COD

Lol best line in this whole speech :p i remember that day you were like 3 and 40 lol

 

[Fooladelfia]

best league in the world I say it again. Best gm's too.

BTW Matt . I already have one vineyard http://silvanridge.com/ but we can buy another.

Well Matt - thanks for posting your story.

Firstly let me say that this incident (which in my opinion isn't even an incident) certainly doesn't make the HFNHL the No Fun League. The HFNHL is by far the best and most stable fantasy hockey league of its kind on the net.

Of course the HFNHL may be the Full Fun League but it is also the All Drama All the time league. It has withstood owner and commissioner changes. Sim crashes and data losses. The lockout and more than its fair share of conflict between GM's and between GM's and the league.

I once quit because I had no time and so after a couple of years away I came back even though I had less time. And when I had EVEN less time I took up being the Sim Manager. I've almost quit a couple of times myself since then but never over something as trivial as a disagreement over my PERSPECTIVE of player value. And I apologize that that comment may seem condescending but I do believe it to be the truth. This really is the White Girl problem of all White Girl problems to have.

The two guys who run the DoPP office do it despite knowing that it will bring nothing into their lives but a ****storm of anger and hostility. And they do a great job. And their knowledge of hockey and players is unrivaled.

We have a handful of original GM's who are themselves coming up for the aforementioned 15 years into building their teams. The vast majority of GM's can claim 7 or more years. And all of these GM's can attest to many things - most importantly just how fun this place is. You'll notice on Facebook and by the messages on this forum - this place has also become a place for a big group of friends to hang out.

Friends in real life. I've met half the guys in this league in person - and have continued to be friends with some who are no longer here.

From Tony traveling around the world to visit us, to Doug reading my scripts and being a shoulder for me to cry on during a break up, to Nick helping me with my new business, to Robb and his wife spending New Years with me, to shopping for a vineyard with Alvaro, to getting killed (over and over) by Zac in COD, to Jeff almost winning my fantasy football league this year, to chatting daily with Dyden, Brock and others, to Keogh owing me fifty bucks and much much more.

We have GM's from all over the world who you would probably never meet any other way. It's too bad that you are not fully able to fully enjoy and appreciate all that the HFNHL has to offer.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Lol best line in this whole speech :p i remember that day you were like 3 and 40 lol

Hey I dropped into the middle of a game that your team was dominating onto the wrong team and you were spawn camping. Cheater. . And I was like 12 and 60 btw. Lol.

 

[Vaive-Alive]

Beantown rumours...

Beantown (AP): GM Kruegs was seen drinking pints with another eastern conference GM at the Rusty Bean last night. Rumours are swirling in the streets of Beantown that a certain defender may be on the move. Stay tuned Bruin fans...

Bobby Orr
Boston Globe

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Personally, I am a big fan of plundering, as long as I'm the plunderer, and not the plunderee. But I don't see that deal as so tilted that the rejection is a clear alternative. Certainly not something to quit over, Keith. But maybe you feel like you have to now that you said you were. I'd take some time to think it over though, because there is no turning back. We have a number of veteran GM's who have pressed the quit button, only to undo within a week once they got a bit of perspective on it. Gotta love the passion, though.

But try losing in the first round every year. Seriously.

 

[Ohio Jones]

Personally, I am a big fan of plundering, as long as I'm the plunderer, and not the plunderee. But I don't see that deal as so tilted that the rejection is a clear alternative. Certainly not something to quit over, Keith. But maybe you feel like you have to now that you said you were. I'd take some time to think it over though, because there is no turning back. We have a number of veteran GM's who have pressed the quit button, only to undo within a week once they got a bit of perspective on it. Gotta love the passion, though.

But try losing in the first round every year. Seriously.

That's losing in the first round after winning the President's Trophy. Gotta be a good feeling.

It's Matt Gee that's pulling the chute, and I know there are candidates around to replace him, so it's no skin off the league's nose either way. Just a bit silly.

Like you said, maybe a moment to cool down will bring perspective.

 

[Wildman]

Personally, I am a big fan of plundering, as long as I'm the plunderer, and not the plunderee. But I don't see that deal as so tilted that the rejection is a clear alternative. Certainly not something to quit over, Keith. But maybe you feel like you have to now that you said you were. I'd take some time to think it over though, because there is no turning back. We have a number of veteran GM's who have pressed the quit button, only to undo within a week once they got a bit of perspective on it. Gotta love the passion, though.

But try losing in the first round every year. Seriously.

I see this as someone hinting Keith to quit after losing out on the Daughty bid

 

[Hossa]

I think this is really a non-issue at this point. The GMs who had an opinion on the matter have voiced their views, but there is no administrative decision to be taken. While I do sincerely hope that you reconsider quitting, Matt G, I think that decision is really yours and yours alone since there is nothing at issue here which actually involves your team and your position as GM. WIth that said, I want to address, briefly, a couple of things mentioned in this thread.

First, I do indeed owe the esteemed GM from Calgary 50$. So while you all reasonably assumed that statement was nothing but slander, I do have a debt to the Sim God which will be repaid soon enough.

Second, as far as the DoPP is concerned, our involvement with individual trades ends when a decision is taken. The only exception is when new information comes to light, usually because GMs try to trade an asset (typically a draft pick, a mistake we've all made) they don't actually own, at which point we have to take a step back. But for obvious reasons, once a trade is processed, there is no appeal process, certainly not form third parties.

But in terms of dialogue on the specifics of the trades, we try to get the perspectives we need before a decision, and anything after that is just chatter. GMs are free to react and over-react to the trades on the boards and the blog as they would like, but official discussions are done by e-mail. This is specifically why we ask that details of trades not be released until a decision is taken, so that opinions like these are not influencing the process. Now if individual GMs are unhappy with the performance of the DoPP in general, then they're welcome to express those concerns to us, or to other admins, but that would again be best dealt with by e-mail.

Third, just to be clear, all blockbuster trades get a thorough review. This is why these things aren't automatic and why it can take a couple of days to approve a trade - it's not just a question of the volume of trades in the Inbox and alcohol in our bloodstream. Trades get delayed because Jeff and I will discuss the relevant considerations, and in some instances (and this has happened in the last week), will seek additional insight from other senior admin members.

In other words, controversial trades like this are not, I don't think, approved due to negligence. If you don't agree with our decision that's fair, and certainly the GMs involved in the trade often don't, but you can be confident that the decision was made based on the discussions of at least TWO league representatives, if not more. While the DOPP can certainly make mistakes (no matter who is involved in that decision), and people have different opinions on what should be grounds for rejection, the insinuation that we did not do our job in this case is simply BS.

 

[Fooladelfia]

No thanks on Tavares, I don't have any use for one-way forwards who don't play any defense.

Ryan Ellis won't be a top pairing defenseman, he's not going to be able to go against the other teams top line every night. Neiderreiter I like, but he's done nothing this season and probably should not be in the NHL right now. Cody Franson is an NHLer, but he's not even a top 4 defenseman and probably won't be because of his skating.

Now you're joking no??
Tavares no thanks???....RYAN ELLIS NOT A TOP PAIRING DMAN LOL...stop stop don't say a thing no more u don't helping you.........................

 

[MatthewFlames]

Well said Sean. And in the case of the trades in question several senior members were consulted and there were no dissenting opinions that the trades should not go through. Also - didn't mean to be slanderous Mr. Keogh regarding the $$$. Just an insinuation that it takes real human trust in your imaginary friend to buy them a redline report and ship it to Geneva.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Well said Sean. And in the case of the trades in question several senior members were consulted and there were no dissenting opinions that the trades should not go through. Also - didn't mean to be slanderous Mr. Keogh regarding the $$$. Just an insinuation that it takes real human trust in your imaginary friend to buy them a redline report and ship it to Geneva.

at least he offered to pay you ... i dont even pretend, i just ask if you will share ;-)

 

[Brock]

Rumour has the Panthers acquiring another top 6 winger...who will actually play on the team's 3rd line. This winger has a PA of 78 and great intangibles.

This will give the Panthers a top 9 of...

Parise - Richards - Moulson
Neal - Savard - Sharp
Knuble - Reinprecht - Mysterious winger

It has now been confirmed.

The mystery winger is Jamie Langenbrunner.

Now to figure out what mystery 2nd pairing defenseman I've acquired. A slight hint. He's played for 3 NHL teams.