HFHabs 2019 Prospect Rankings

Estimated_Prophet

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Mar 28, 2003
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It is also silly to exclude NCAA-aged players as prospects if we want to go that way.

I disagree as there are 23 and 24 year old NCAA players. I am talking about acting like teenagers are finished products.

You can make under 25 lists but as far as "prospects" are concerned it is ludicrous to exclude a teenager because he has played 25 games in the NHL. The term prospect implies the possibility of profound improvement which is very possible in any teenager regardless of what level they have already reached.
 

montreal

Go Habs Go
Mar 21, 2002
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I just don't put much stock into his stats with SC as he was not playing an offensive role and had to cover for and carry lesser linemates while playing the role of shut down center. We are in agreement that he is not going to be a huge point producer I just think that he will be a player who should make a bigger overall difference than Suzuki as he is far superior on two thirds of the rink.

I also believe that you may be surprised at how his goal/assist ratio should change in the pros. He scored 8 goals in 8 games when paired with superior linemates at the WJC and in his NHL debut. He is on record talking about how he buys into the role that he is given which was a shut down center at SC and a net presence at the WJC.

I absolutely think he is capable of scoring 30 goals in the NHL as he has all of the tools to be every bit as good as Gallagher in front of the net. If he gets PP time in this role he certainly has the potential to be a great weapon. I could absolutely see him having some 30-20-50 type of seasons while being a shutdown center. Much like Brady Tkachuk and Max Pacioretty, it is often not a linear statistical translation from the NCAA to the NHL. I am not putting a ton of stock into his NHL debut but he didn't surprise me either. That is exactly the type of game I expect him to play, obviously the points were fortunate as he won't score anywhere approaching that rate but the same chances are going to be there for him.

He was on the #1 PP unit and I believe they were among the top PP's in the NCAA but I'd have to look that up. In the first half of the season he was on the top line with Robby Jackson, the teams 2nd leading goal scorer and the guy he played all of the previous season with when he put up 14 goals. I just can't look past a 1st round pick that plays on the best team in the NCAA and the 2nd highest scoring and he goes out in the first half and scores in just 2 games.

In the 2nd half he was dropped down to play with his brothers, once again that's not a good sign that I can't overlook. Now he did manage to pick up the goal scoring with 5.

The WJC's he had a great game vs Sweden to get the hattrick but 1 goal vs Kazakhstan and 1 vs Finland the rest of the way with no points in any of the medal round games. I just wasn't too impressed outside of that great game vs Sweden and he did have another one vs Kazakhstan with 3 pts.

The NHL game was interesting, I just don't know how much we can read out of it as the leafs didn't have all their D dressed if I recall and they clearly didn't seem to interested. That said he did have a great game.

I would be surprised if he can pot 30 in the NHL because I just haven't seen him shoot enough or have a that good of a shot. That said I'd love it if he did, would be great for our future. Tkachuk certainly makes me hopefully Poehling can be much better NHLer then NCAAer as I wasn't too impressed with the few games I saw him although to be fair he was facing Primeau in all those games.

Pac I got to see in one USHL game and then a lot at Michigan, he was impressive for sure but also benefited from playing on what was considered to be the best line in the NCAA. I would have never expected him to change his game so much in the AHL when paired up with DD, that was crazy as he was clearly more of a playmaking winger although when you are a Freshman and your 2 linemates are ripping it up you likely will pass a lot to them. I know that when he left at the end of his Freshman year, his coach, one of the all time greatest coaches in NCAA history and former Hab Red Berenson told him he was making a big mistake and that he wasn't ready.


My point was that it is silly to exclude junior eligible players as prospects

these polls were always done with the HF rules for a prospect so it was just easier to go with that. I believe the cutoff was 60 NHL games or 40 I forget it's been so long.
 

Treb

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May 31, 2011
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Montreal
I disagree as there are 23 and 24 year old NCAA players. I am talking about acting like teenagers are finished products.

You can make under 25 lists but as far as "prospects" are concerned it is ludicrous to exclude a teenager because he has played 25 games in the NHL. The term prospect implies the possibility of profound improvement which is very possible in any teenager regardless of what level they have already reached.

The term prospect implies the possibility of making it. A ''person regarded as likely to succeed'' as per google. KK already succeeded. He can grow for sure, but he's not a prospect anymore. Unless you wanna say he's a prospective top 6 NHL C (since for now he was played as a 3rd C, but is likely to make it as a top 6 C), but in that case you can count pretty much any NHLer under 27 as a prospect of some kind.

If KK is in, guys like Mete and Juulsen 100% should be in as they have a possibility of ''profound improvement''. Hell, even Lehkonen could improve tremendously.
 
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Estimated_Prophet

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Mar 28, 2003
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The term prospect implies the possibility of making it. A ''person regarded as likely to succeed'' as per google. KK already succeeded. He can grow for sure, but he's not a prospect anymore. Unless you wanna say he's a prospective top 6 NHL C (since for now he was played as a 3rd C, but is likely to make it as a top 6 C), but in that case you can count pretty much any NHLer under 27 as a prospect of some kind.

If KK is in, guys like Mete and Juulsen 100% should be in as they have a possibility of ''profound improvement''. Hell, even Lehkonen could improve tremendously.

I feel like you are seriously struggling to comprehend the simplicity of my proposal. I am only referring to these prospect lists and how silly it is that we have a kid that is younger than almost the entire list but is left off of it due to a silly rule.

The fact that you are arguing it is mind boggling
 

Estimated_Prophet

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Mar 28, 2003
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these polls were always done with the HF rules for a prospect so it was just easier to go with that. I believe the cutoff was 60 NHL games or 40 I forget it's been so long.

Wasn't meant to disparage your method as I understand why it was done this way. I just wanted to point out how silly it is and that everybody just seems to accept it.
 
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montreal

Go Habs Go
Mar 21, 2002
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Wasn't meant to disparage your method as I understand why it was done this way. I just wanted to point out how silly it is and that everybody just seems to accept it.

I wasn't the one who came up with these summer polls, I have run them a few times and I couldn't say who's idea it was. Being prospect related and since I was usually a mod I often was involved in the process. I also don't remember how HF came up with their rules on what is a prospect or not. I started writing for them sometime in late '02 or so I believe. I used to write a lot of stuff about the prospects when they were the Citadelles and Komisarek was at Michigan, etc... At some point they made big changes after a new editor was brought in and they came up with the rules.

I can see the point, on one hand Kotka being so young he should count but on the other it's not often you have 18 year olds in the NHL or wasn't as much back then when they came up with the rules. I'd say around '04. I know it was after the whole HF scouting magazine scandal is when they made some changes but I can't remember what rules where there before. I've been to a lot of Grateful Dead/Phish concerts in my days so that should explain a lot.

But perhaps before the next ranking in July the posters can vote on what they think the rules should be. I know some wanted older players like Barber, Belzile, etc.. and while I don't really care one way or the other, I do believe there should be a cut off since it's not fair to compare a 26 year old to an 18 year old so just because he's closer to the NHL shouldn't matter imo.

As for Kotka I think most would have him at #1 if he was in this poll but if posters want to come up with different parameters then so be it.
 
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Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,447
28,432
Montreal
I feel like you are seriously struggling to comprehend the simplicity of my proposal. I am only referring to these prospect lists and how silly it is that we have a kid that is younger than almost the entire list but is left off of it due to a silly rule.

The fact that you are arguing it is mind boggling

And it is mind boggling for me why you would consider KK as a prospect even with his age.

I guess we agree to disagree.
 

Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
39,517
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Montreal
#1 - Ryan Poehling
#2 - Cole Caufield
#3 - Nick Suzuki
#4 - Josh Brook
#5 - Alexander Romanov
#6 - Cayden Primeau
#7 - Jesse Ylonen
#8 - Jayden Struble
#9 - Cale Fleury
#10 - Jordan Harris
#11 - Joni Ikonen
#12 - Mattias Norlinder
#13 - Jake Evans
#14 - Joel Teasdale
#15 - Jacob Olofsson
#16 - Cam Hillis
#17 - Rhett Pitlick
#18 - Cole Fonstad
#19 - Gianni Fairbrother
#20 - Allen McShane
#21 - Otto Leskinen
#22 - Michael McNiven
#23 - Lukas Vejdemo
#24 - Brett Stapley
#25 - Jack Gorniak
#26 - Arsen Khisamutdinov
#27 - Jacob LeGuerrier
#28 - Frederik Dichow
#29 - Rafael Harvey-Pinard
#30 - Alexandre Alain
#31 - David Sklenicka
#32 - Hayden Verbeek
#33 - Samuel Houde
#34 - Michael Pezzetta
#35 - Kieran Ruscheinski
#36 - Antoine Waked
#37 - Arvid Henriksson

I'm fairly certain McCarron ranks higher than some of these players. I'm looking for a huge camp out of him this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets at least 20 games again this season.
 

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