- Aug 25, 2006
- 9,421
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Prospect Info: HFAvs Prospect Ranking Poll #4
- Thread starter McMetal
- Start date
I have more faith in Kovalenko as a future Bottom 6 forward than I do Bowers tbh. Just not convinced on Bowers NHL upside anymore.
EDIT: That probably came across as a more negative comment then I intended. Still like Bowers as a prospect and have him well inside the Top 10... But I'm not certain he's going to be an NHLer like some are in this thread and still think he has a little ways to go development wise before reaching that level, and I dont think he has upside for more then that of a 3C.
EDIT: That probably came across as a more negative comment then I intended. Still like Bowers as a prospect and have him well inside the Top 10... But I'm not certain he's going to be an NHLer like some are in this thread and still think he has a little ways to go development wise before reaching that level, and I dont think he has upside for more then that of a 3C.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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Agreed, Bowers needs to take some steps offensively before he's NHL ready in any capacity. He definitely has some blue collar type ability for goal scoring but the raw skill level needed to be even a 3C is questionable to me.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
- 40,152
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I think penciling Bowers anywhere with the letter “C” next to it is destined for failure. I feel he’s a winger through and through. A north south powerful speedster on the walls who doesn’t really make his linemates better always spells winger for me. His success when moved to the wing last year cements it even more for me.
+3
Sounds like the way Nuke makes his linemates better opening up space and doing some heavy lifting.
God knows Kadri needs a winger like that. Nice to have three down the left side now with Landy, Saad, and Nuke.
Bowers future left wing, Kaut future right wing in that mold makes me happy. They are perfect for how Bednar wants to play too.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
- 14,167
- 12,222
I think it's his defensive ability that cements his C status for me. He already had a well developed two-way game going into college, and I think if the Avs encourage that and develop him at center they can deploy him as a PEB-type defensive 4C who isn't going to wow you offensively enough to be an adequate 3C.
- Oct 24, 2008
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My thoughts as well. He needs to show some more offensive ability in the AHL before I'd be confident penciling him into a future NHL lineup. I know you dont need a lot of offense from your 4th line guys, but you still want to see that ability at least in the AHL before giving a guy a roster spot in the NHL.
There's really only 5 prospects in our entire farm system that I am 100% confident will be NHL players. And even with that 5, one of them is kind of iffy because of injuries.
Bowen Byram
Alex Newhook
Martin Kaut
Connor Timmins**
Logan O'Connor
That's the only 5 guys I would be extremely surprised with if they didn't end up regular NHL players at the very least(Injuries notwithstanding for Timmins).
Beyond that.... I think Kovalenko is the next best shot to be an NHLer for me. I think his game is made for NHL ice, he's got good speed, great energy, solid puck skills, strong two-way play. I personally dont have concerns about whether he comes to North America or not either. I know his Dad is pretty well involved in the KHL, but his Dad also spent years in the NHL and I'm sure even his father probably hopes his son can one day do the same. Even beyond that, Kovalenko came to North America for the draft despite not being a 1st round touted prospect, and came to the Colorado Prospect development camp(Both since being drafted maybe?), that's already quite a bit more involvement here in North America then some other guys that came over like Mironov and Shvyryov before him.
Bowers and Foudy have good shots to be NHL players as well... But Kovalenko is my top gun beyond the big 5 to be an NHL player for us in a few years.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
- 40,152
- 37,330
Man would it be nice for Foudy to work out.
The last forward the Avs drafted after 10th OA who became a full time NHL’er was Ryan O’Reilly 11 years ago.
The last forward the Avs drafted after 10th OA who became a full time NHL’er was Ryan O’Reilly 11 years ago.
- Feb 24, 2012
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I'm not sure how good Foudy will end up, but with his skating I can't see him not getting an extended chance. It being so elite can be a difference maker and make up for a lot of faults. Rico Fata got 230 NHL games during peak clutch and grab hockey simply based on how well he could skate. 
I personally feel more certain on Foudy being a NHL player than I do Timmins, Bowers, Kaut, Kovalenko, etc. I just don't know if his actual impact will ever be great.
I personally feel more certain on Foudy being a NHL player than I do Timmins, Bowers, Kaut, Kovalenko, etc. I just don't know if his actual impact will ever be great.
RockyMtnRedhawk
Registered User
I'm not sure how good Foudy will end up, but with his skating I can't see him not getting an extended chance. It being so elite can be a difference maker and make up for a lot of faults. Rico Fata got 230 NHL games during peak clutch and grab hockey simply based on how well he could skate.
I personally feel more certain on Foudy being a NHL player than I do Timmins, Bowers, Kaut, Kovalenko, etc. I just don't know if his actual impact will ever be great.
A great skater can carve out a nice long career as a bottom sixer. I could see Foudy being similar to Grabner or Hagelin with the potential of being even better if he can improve his shot. Great value from the third round.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
I like Bowers’ game but he’s looking at being 21 years old with no callup yet, it’s gotta happen soon. He has to cross that hurdle before I can take him making the team seriously.
I absolutely love the way Kovalenko plays but for some reason he tends to not stick in the lineup in the KHL, either he keeps getting dinged up or he’s easy to scratch. So I’m a little more apprehensive than I was before but I too think he’ll come over but he’s also gonna need some sort of promises. Like Miro it will prob be clear early on if it’s going to work or not.
Foudy should get some sort of chance but we are a long way from that. I like the pick and upside but he’s going to have to not get buried first.
I absolutely love the way Kovalenko plays but for some reason he tends to not stick in the lineup in the KHL, either he keeps getting dinged up or he’s easy to scratch. So I’m a little more apprehensive than I was before but I too think he’ll come over but he’s also gonna need some sort of promises. Like Miro it will prob be clear early on if it’s going to work or not.
Foudy should get some sort of chance but we are a long way from that. I like the pick and upside but he’s going to have to not get buried first.
- Apr 25, 2006
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Wow, Pierce I am almost in complete agreement with your entire post. The only thing I'd add is that I'm also pretty hopeful about Justus, I think there's NHL upside there
The problem with these lists - and every fanbase does this - is it tends to get turned into "who's most ready for the NHL" over "who's the most talented" at each position. Kaut is good prospect, but hard to say he's better than Foudy in terms of head to head talent.
RockyMtnRedhawk
Registered User
Yeah, I agree. Everyone has their own criteria for who should be ranked higher. For me it's a matter of ceiling combined with "what has the player done to prove he can reach that ceiling" or "how likely is that player to reach that ceiling". I do think that once the final ratings come in, it's a pretty good reflection of the prospects though.
- Apr 25, 2006
- 49,567
- 52,744
Our draft and development sucked so much in the last decade that we're instinctively looking for a high floor for anyone drafted out of the top 10. If Kaut becomes a regular NHLer we'll take that over the riskier pick.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Prospect forecasting is a lot about upside but especially given the development difficulties here having any idea on a proactive path has to be given weight.
I have always believed in Kaut and was probably the last person who still believed in him before his call up. He’s a 16th overall pick, it’s not like the guy doesn’t have talent.
I have always believed in Kaut and was probably the last person who still believed in him before his call up. He’s a 16th overall pick, it’s not like the guy doesn’t have talent.
- Aug 25, 2006
- 9,421
- 7,548
I never gave up on Kaut as well. I mentioned in the past that he could become a Landy-type of player but with a lower ceiling. He doesn't drive his own line but I always thought he could be a very good complimentary player for the 2nd line. I believe that at his peak he could provide for the 2nd line what Landy provides for the top line. At the very least he could become a high-end two-way 3rd liner.
UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
- 14,167
- 12,222
I think people underrate his talent because he has so little flash and dash to his game. He IS talented, he just isn't going to dangle his way through the neutral zone or split the D. He has a heavy shot and some decent goal scorer's instincts around the net, but he isn't going to make a lot of highlight reels in his career. Nevertheless, there is real value in that kind of player, and the Avs could definitely use someone like him to do some dirty work and slam home some goals with his shot. I still see potential 2nd liner to his game if he can fully realize that nose for the net he hinted at during his 9 games.
In these polls, I do tend to rate NHL readiness a little bit heavier than others. The further a player is from making an NHL team, the more potential stumbling blocks he could hit on his way there. Plenty of promising prospects on the Avs and around the league have plateaued at some stage of their development and failed to take the next step, so when the next step is "NHL regular" it's a lot easier to project both their ceiling and their value to the team than with a raw 18 year old like Foudy.
Richard88
John 3:16
- Jun 29, 2019
- 19,180
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I don't think he's ever going to be a guy who scores more than 10-15 goals even in his prime. His game is simply built around playmaking too much.
Duncan Siemens was once an 11th overall pick. Just because you're a 1st round selection doesn't always mean you have lots of talent.
Strictly on talent, Kaut would be well down my list(He's not #3 anyway for me). But the trick in these lists is balancing talent and pure upside versus NHL readiness and the likelihood of being an NHLer.
A guy like Weiss has lots of skill, Alex Beaucage has lots of skill and booming shot... But are the weaknesses in their games going to prevent them from making it to the NHL? In both cases the very likely result is thag yes it will.
On then flip side a guy like Kaut isn't as skilled, but does a lot of the little things right that should allow him ton be a solid NHLer at least.
Strictly on talent, Kaut would be well down my list(He's not #3 anyway for me). But the trick in these lists is balancing talent and pure upside versus NHL readiness and the likelihood of being an NHLer.
A guy like Weiss has lots of skill, Alex Beaucage has lots of skill and booming shot... But are the weaknesses in their games going to prevent them from making it to the NHL? In both cases the very likely result is thag yes it will.
On then flip side a guy like Kaut isn't as skilled, but does a lot of the little things right that should allow him ton be a solid NHLer at least.
