Here comes expansion! Part III - Bids Only from Vegas, Quebec City

[MNNumbers]

16. Well, let's play

1-Vegas
2- Quebec
3-Bellevue
4-SODO
5-Tukwila
6-Toronto (Roustan)

Other possibilities..
Hamilton
Duluth, MN
Houston
KC
Portland

Who else? Anyone guess....

 

[tsanuri]

If the NHL WANTED Portland and Seattle, they would have met with them, asked if they were interested and asked, "How long do you need to get this together and at what price are you interested?" If they could agree, there would have not been an announcement about accepting bids. Would have been done behind closed doors and then the league would have announced new franchises. Is there anyone in Portland besides Paul Allen that could own a team? Could they get an arena built if Allen didn't want them sharing with the Blazers or couldn't come to an acceptable agreement with the Blazers? The NHL would love to be in every major city and every quasi-major city that doesnt have their own pro-sports team, but there is a lot more to it than WANTING to be there.

Yes there someone else in Portland that could own a team but he doesn't want a team. That's Phil Knight

 

[Melrose Munch]

The shield confirms, Las Vegas and Qc: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=775295&cmpid=nhl-twt



Oh snap.

16 groups asked for applications.

Welp.

 

[cutchemist42]

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 5m5 minutes ago
Never seen league so publicly mean spirited. Guys in Toronto and Seattle have been working for years to try to get arena deals together...

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 5m5 minutes ago
...And because they couldn't in a two-week window, NHL says they have "merely dreams and aspirations." Looking very petty here.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

16. Well, let's play

1-Vegas
2- Quebec
3-Bellevue
4-SODO
5-Tukwila
6-Toronto (Roustan)

Other possibilities..
Hamilton
Duluth, MN
Houston
KC
Portland

Who else? Anyone guess....

Milwaukee maybe? Especially since they just got the new rink approved a few days ago.

Don't discount possibility there might have been 2 or 3 interested groups for a 2nd Toronto team.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

16. Well, let's play

1-Vegas
2- Quebec
3-Bellevue
4-SODO
5-Tukwila
6-Toronto (Roustan)

Other possibilities..
Hamilton
Duluth, MN
Houston
KC
Portland

Who else? Anyone guess....

I'm wondering if someone in Milwaukee might have sent a feeler out. And of course, if you ask some of the die-hardiest folks out there, someone in Hartford might have made contact too.

 

[Melrose Munch]

NHL is a pauper's league for those tweets.

 

[cutchemist42]

They can't have wanted either Seattle or Toronto that badly with that preposterous 500m expansion fee.

The thing is, with proper time and planning, $500m would be low for Tor2. $500m for Seattle though was a bad buy, and myself and numerous others here echoed the same.

I still think $500m for LV is scary considering the owner's age.

 

[JeanQuebecois]

16. Well, let's play

1-Vegas
2- Quebec
3-Bellevue
4-SODO
5-Tukwila
6-Toronto (Roustan)

Other possibilities..
Hamilton
Duluth, MN
Houston
KC
Portland

Who else? Anyone guess....

Duluth? That area have a population similar to Sakatoon. I assume you meant it as a joke

I'd add Oklahoma City to your list. San Antonio too perhaps?

 

[JayKing]

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 5m5 minutes ago
Never seen league so publicly mean spirited. Guys in Toronto and Seattle have been working for years to try to get arena deals together...

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 5m5 minutes ago
...And because they couldn't in a two-week window, NHL says they have "merely dreams and aspirations." Looking very petty here.

Seems more like Ken Campbell (edit: and looking at twitter right now I'd say Toronto sports media in general ) is the one being salty and petty because of the small amount of shade thrown at Toronto 2 if anything

 

[stchamp98]

Really petty, snide comment there. No need for that, regardless of whether they believe it to be true or not. Just be cordial and move along.

That said, the league is still in great shape here. I think they're gonna get great value from both groups should they choose to expand. I doubt they get 500M from each party (As I said weeks ago) but this isn't going to be a fire sale. They're gonna get full value.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 5m5 minutes ago
Never seen league so publicly mean spirited. Guys in Toronto and Seattle have been working for years to try to get arena deals together...

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 5m5 minutes ago
...And because they couldn't in a two-week window, NHL says they have "merely dreams and aspirations." Looking very petty here.

Like any highly competitive field/career, one has to be ready to apply when the window opens to have a reasonable chance of success. You don't leave critical qualifications unfulfilled until the last second in these situations. I agree that is what separates the serious candidates from those with "merely dreams and aspirations."

 

[Melrose Munch]

I don't think they overplayed their hand when frankly their hand is still plenty strong. They're still in a great position to land their target full value (Still don't believe that's 500M) for franchise ownership which is really all the expansion process should be about, value. I just think they played out this out like impatient high school kids who got tired of waiting for the girl they really wanted to dance with to empty her dance card. It's not overplaying a hand, it's simply playing it in a way that I personally wouldn't.

Really petty, snide comment there. No need for that, regardless of whether they believe it to be true or not. Just be cordial and move along.

That said, the league is still in great shape here. I think they're gonna get great value from both groups should they choose to expand. I doubt they get 500M from each party (As I said weeks ago) but this isn't going to be a fire sale. They're gonna get full value.

I still think 500 million is too much. But Seattle was given multiple chances.

Seems more like Ken Campbell is the one being salty about the shade thrown at Toronto 2.

Really? Because it looks like he's right.

 

[cutchemist42]

Really petty, snide comment there. No need for that, regardless of whether they believe it to be true or not. Just be cordial and move along.

That said, the league is still in great shape here. I think they're gonna get great value from both groups should they choose to expand. I doubt they get 500M from each party (As I said weeks ago) but this isn't going to be a fire sale. They're gonna get full value.

Those small little quips are very Bettman though, if you ever hear his interviews. Give bidders that short a timeframe, what did they truly expect? No one is truly running over themselves to get into the club...

I mean, dont be upset that even with almost two years notice that Seattle has not jumped as quickly to the NHL as it would have if it knew the NBA was coming within 2 years. The league ist just not as wanted.

 

[sandysan]

So now you support Vegas? Come on. Portland would be mid pack, Seattle top 10. Better then the coyotes.

Las vegas is a crap shoot, could be great, could be a dumpster fire could be somewhere in between. And there s no freaking way seattle is a top 10 revenue team. Zero. If seattle was such a sure bet with an established market yearning for nhl hockey, then the nhl first mou in sodo would have no problem in passing. But it didnt and was dead without the nba riding in wearing a white hat.

And if "better than the coyotes" is the new bar, god help us all.

 

[JayKing]

I still think 500 million is too much. But Seattle was given multiple chances.


Really? Because it looks like he's right.

Or maybe they just aren't as ready as Toronto media has made them out to be.

 

[MNNumbers]

Duluth? That area have a population similar to Sakatoon. I assume you meant it as a joke

I'd add Oklahoma City to your list. San Antonio too perhaps?

I am guessing not on places with a chance, but who actually may have asked for the materials. I saw a post here in the last 2 weeks with reference to a Duluth bid. It would never be serious, of course. Too small an area, with no rink. But I was trying to see who the 16 might be, so I included that because of the rumor.

 

[JeanQuebecois]

I am guessing not on places with a chance, but who actually may have asked for the materials. I saw a post here in the last 2 weeks with reference to a Duluth bid. It would never be serious, of course. Too small an area, with no rink. But I was trying to see who the 16 might be, so I included that because of the rumor.

I see, thank you for the clarification

 

[RandR]

The league's press release is a classic spin job, implying that they only got 2 bids but that's because all along their goal was to separate "bona fide expressions of interest" from "merely hopes or aspirations".

Evidence to me that, at minimum, the league mis-read the tea leaves and expected more than just the 2 bids that they got. (Having said that, it's still at least a "glass half full" situation for them.)

Seems more like Ken Campbell is the one being salty about the shade thrown at Toronto 2.

I think Campbell is also guilty of mis-reading the situation and isn't a happy camper either. Right now he is looking way off on his tweet yesterday afternoon

Lack of bids from Toronto and Seattle a hit to their expansion/relocation hopes, but neither is dead. Not by a longshot. Much can change.

 

[cutchemist42]

The league's press release is a classic spin job, implying that they only got 2 bids but that's because all along their goal was to separate "bona fide expressions of interest" from "merely hopes or aspirations".

Evidence to me that, at minimum, the league mis-read the tea leaves and expected more than just the 2 bids that they got. (Having said that, it's still at least a "glass half full" situation for them.)

I think Campbell is also guilty of mis-reading the situation and isn't a happy camper either. Right now he is looking way off on his tweet yesterday afternoon

I'm still conflicted though. Was this a genuine expansion process reasonably open to anyone and it fell flat, or was it a chirade the whole time and no one bid because the winners were obvious so why waste $2mil?

 

[RandR]

I'm still conflicted though. Was this a genuine expansion process reasonably open to anyone and it fell flat, or was it a chirade the whole time and no one bid because the winners were obvious so why waste $2mil?

I think mostly the first. I suspect that some of the potential bidders talked up a good game, but when push came to shove didn't put their money where their mouths were. I am not trying to defend Bettman, but it's quite possible that at least one of the potential bidders was not completely genuine and Bettman may legitimately feel betrayed. And he is not accustomed to losing anything.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Las vegas is a crap shoot, could be great, could be a dumpster fire could be somewhere in between. And there s no freaking way seattle is a top 10 revenue team. Zero. If seattle was such a sure bet with an established market yearning for nhl hockey, then the nhl first mou in sodo would have no problem in passing. But it didnt and was dead without the nba riding in wearing a white hat.

And if "better than the coyotes" is the new bar, god help us all.

That was revenue sharing re: the arena. If San Jose did fine so can seattle. You're just against it because they didn't blow 500 million in tax money.

Or maybe they just aren't as ready as Toronto media has made them out to be.

Who said that other than roustan himself.

 

[JeanQuebecois]

I'm still conflicted though. Was this a genuine expansion process reasonably open to anyone and it fell flat, or was it a chirade the whole time and no one bid because the winners were obvious so why waste $2mil?

I think the $2mil unrefundable fee is not that unreasonable. It does show that you have some cash available. The 500mil total price tag IS. How can this be justified considering half the current franchises aren't even worth that much?

I'm certain they would had gotten a lot more applicants had they settled for a more reasonable price, say 200mil?

Nahsville, Minny , Atlanta and Columbus paid $80 mil. Granted, that was 17 years ago but even accounting for 5% inflation annually, that's the equivalent of $183 millions today...

 

[GuelphStormer]

The excuses are ridiculous man. The was a window open and he didn't bid. Case Closed.

this was a very fast / truncated expansion bid period... which tells me the league needs to try to get their 500 million from cities willing to pony up as fast as possible because relocations are coming up fast....

this is a reasonable way to interpret things, MarkhamNHL.

 

[stchamp98]

I still think 500 million is too much. But Seattle was given multiple chances.

I agree. I've been treating that number since it was reported as little more than an opening gambit. I always thought something around 350-400 (Not math behind that, just a number that seems more in tune to me) was the real target value price. With 2 expansion teams at that price you're introducing 700-800M in unshared revenues to the owners current, you don't place nearly as heavy a burden on the new incoming organizations and I think 350-400M still places a nice, attractive value on the overall league product. I think it would callous to try and ask for an amount significantly higher than that range.