Proposal: Henrik Lundqvist to any team needing stronger goaltending

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think I’d prefer to keep him. I don’t want to pay Georgiyev’s next contract. It’s not going to be a good contract. He’ll have a high ask because the NYR media go to bat for him and paint average play as very good play that results in average stats due to the defense.

This is an overplayed narrative. He’s an average goaltender and his numbers have dropped every season of his career, as he’s gotten more time. The teams will meet in the middle, but it’ll still be more than he should be getting. If we tried to trade Hank, we’ll have to retain a lot. I’d rather not retain a lot to get nothing of value back. We don’t need to trade him. We can trade Georgiyev.

Hank can backup Shestyorkin for the next two seasons, and then we’ll have a different backup. We don’t need to keep Georgiyev for the sake of it.

 

[Elliman]

It can be done.

IE:

NYR deals Lundqvist @ 50% & a 2nd to Ottawa for a 3rd

Sens deal Lundqvist @ 50% to TEAM X for a 1st

TEAM X gets Lundqvist at $2.250 for a first rounder

Rangers shed $4.5 million for giving up 2nd round pick and gain a 5th round pick

Ottawa ponies up $2.250 & a 5th round pick for a first rounder and a second rounder.

 

[DutchNYR]

And that man is Elon Musk

Sioux City Musketeers are a juniors team.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

He’s not going anywhere. He loves NY and cares about more than hockey. He’s 38 and signed to a deal nobody wants. Lock it up

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

I think I’d prefer to keep him. I don’t want to pay Georgiyev’s next contract. It’s not going to be a good contract. He’ll have a high ask because the NYR media go to bat for him and paint average play as very good play that results in average stats due to the defense.

This is an overplayed narrative. He’s an average goaltender and his numbers have dropped every season of his career, as he’s gotten more time. The teams will meet in the middle, but it’ll still be more than he should be getting. If we tried to trade Hank, we’ll have to retain a lot. I’d rather not retain a lot to get nothing of value back. We don’t need to trade him. We can trade Georgiyev.

Hank can backup Shestyorkin for the next two seasons, and then we’ll have a different backup. We don’t need to keep Georgiyev for the sake of it.

Do you really think he has leverage to ask a contract you think will be deemed regrettable?

His resume is not great on paper, with 66gp, .913 sv pct, 3.02 GAA career. I get all of that is behind a NYR transition team, but in all reality contracts are not negotiated in fancy stats, high danger sv pct, etc. It's based on GAA, sv pct, wins, and games played (GMs are still largely the old boys club)

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of him, but knows the resume, I don't see how he realistically can get much more than a 4x$4-$4.5 (and that's generous on term and AAV)

 

[Chimpradamus]

He's about to turn 38, and has been a thoroughly mediocre goalie for a couple years now. If Lundqvist is an upgrade for your team, you're in more trouble than you think.

"Mediocre for a couple of years." Nope. NYR has had an absolutely terrible team though, especially the defense. Lundqvist played very solid hockey considering the circumstances and lead the league in advanced stats, while the NYR team was in the absolute bottom. Then NYR stopped playing him and he needs to play to stay on his toes. He's an old school workhorse.

There may be no player, in any sport, less likely to waive his NTC than Lundqvist. He's not going anywhere.

Such a stance can change quickly when NYR is in a three goalie rotation and management wants to play the younger goalies, so they gain experience. I mean sure, it can be fun earning $8.5m while eating popcorn, but it gets very tiresome, very quickly if you like to play hockey.

 

[bernmeister]

Unless Hank opens his NMC, these conversations are pretty moot. Rangers could retain salary then, opening a lot of options for other teams, but again it is all in his control. I don't see him going anywhere. Will most likely trade Georgy get a nice return, and let Hank back up for Igor next season and be his mentor.

this^.

I could MAYBE see that MAYBE if this was next season, and his contract is expiring, then MAYBE he waives to a contender. Maybe.

Today there is less than zero of that happening.

Hulska looks good, very preliminary, but still good, and we have Wall maybe others in the picture.
Gotta keep it moving.
Deal Geo for profit = keep Hank short term as long as he doesn't fall apart, which is not likely overnight.

 

[Leonardo87]

this^.

I could MAYBE see that MAYBE if this was next season, and his contract is expiring, then MAYBE he waives to a contender. Maybe.

Today there is less than zero of that happening.

Hulska looks good, very preliminary, but still good, and we have Wall maybe others in the picture.
Gotta keep it moving.
Deal Geo for profit = keep Hank short term as long as he doesn't fall apart, which is not likely overnight.

Hank is entering a point of his career that if he wants to stay in the game, would take on a Ryan Miller type role. Miller has played very well for Anahiem, even with their D issues. I would like that role to be with the Rangers moving forward. George may return like a 2nd or B prospect but he wants to be a starter so it makes more sense for him to move on than Hank. Even if the cap is really high for next season. One more year after this and the Rangers will be free of Staal, Smith, and Hank's current cap hit. Just gotta stay the course. Hank has to know that his career is not ending but certainly changing if he wants to stay in the game.

 

[tony d]

I think Lundqvist is a Ranger for life, he won't be traded anywhere.

 

[Jerkbait]

Never won a cup. Never got close to a cup. Back up role at best. There will be interest. He should mentor the younger NYR goalies on a cheap deal

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Never won a cup. Never got close to a cup. Back up role at best. There will be interest. He should mentor the younger NYR goalies on a cheap deal

2014 says hi

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Do you really think he has leverage to ask a contract you think will be deemed regrettable?

His resume is not great on paper, with 66gp, .913 sv pct, 3.02 GAA career. I get all of that is behind a NYR transition team, but in all reality contracts are not negotiated in fancy stats, high danger sv pct, etc. It's based on GAA, sv pct, wins, and games played (GMs are still largely the old boys club)

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of him, but knows the resume, I don't see how he realistically can get much more than a 4x$4-$4.5 (and that's generous on term and AAV)

His ask will be high. There are plenty who think he’s a lot better than he is. Do you think the arbitration award will be exactly what the team will offer? No, it’ll be somewhere in the middle, which’ll be an overpayment because his reputation is over-inflated.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

2014 says hi

Plays a Vézina, etc, etc records, guys tag name says it all

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Never won a cup. Never got close to a cup. Back up role at best. There will be interest. He should mentor the younger NYR goalies on a cheap deal

Fatso, is that you? Enjoying the sister in law?

 

[innitfam]

Carolina if they can ditch their current platoon?

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

His ask will be high. There are plenty who think he’s a lot better than he is. Do you think the arbitration award will be exactly what the team will offer? No, it’ll be somewhere in the middle, which’ll be an overpayment because his reputation is over-inflated.

again, with his numbers, his market comparables cant deem a high ask

i mean he is not close in his right mind to command or ask anything outrageous like $6 mil per with less than a full season of games on his resume. could he ask something like $5 per? sure i think thats reasonable for an arb ask and NYR probably offer something like $2-$2.5 which is why i think he logically settles around $4ish, which i dont think is outlandish

 

[beowulf]

And we certainly know all NHL executives are never wrong when judging a players value..

It's also that the NHL goalie market kind of has a glut both now and even a bigger one come the off season. The Sportsnet goalie edition power rankings saw it best I think

Rangers
The only goaltending situation more compelling than Pittsburgh or Washington’s is in the same division. New York is trying to keep three goalies happy. Henrik Lundqvist still has another year on his deal. Alexandar Georgiev is an RFA looking for a juicy raise. And Igor Shesterkin has earned more NHL starts. Trading Georgiev is the simplest solution, but GM’s seldom win a deal in which they give up on a 23-year-old backup with above-average results.

 

[Liferleafer]

It's also that the NHL goalie market kind of has a glut both now and even a bigger one come the off season. The Sportsnet goalie edition power rankings saw it best I think

Rangers
The only goaltending situation more compelling than Pittsburgh or Washington’s is in the same division. New York is trying to keep three goalies happy. Henrik Lundqvist still has another year on his deal. Alexandar Georgiev is an RFA looking for a juicy raise. And Igor Shesterkin has earned more NHL starts. Trading Georgiev is the simplest solution, but GM’s seldom win a deal in which they give up on a 23-year-old backup with above-average results.

Please don't take this as baiting or trolling, but honest question, what makes Georgiev's results above average? When looking at previous young goalies that were backups and traded with the sameish NHL experience, his stats are not as good as any of Bernier/Talbot/Jones/Raanta at the time of their trades.

 

[SA16]

Please don't take this as baiting or trolling, but honest question, what makes Georgiev's results above average? When looking at previous young goalies that were backups and traded with the sameish NHL experience, his stats are not as good as any of Bernier/Talbot/Jones/Raanta at the time of their trades.

It's a higher scoring era these days and the Rangers defense now is worse than the other goalies had to deal with.

 

[Liferleafer]

It's a higher scoring era these days and the Rangers defense now is worse than the other goalies had to deal with.

Again, not trying to knock Geo...but:

Bernier:
58 games played
1435 shots faced
120 goals allowed
.916 sv%
Average shots per game 25

Talbot:
57 games played
1558 shots faced
110 goals allowed
.929 sv%
Average shots per game 27

Jones:
34 games played
807 shots faced
62 goals allowed
.921 sv%
Average shots per game 24

Raanta:
39 games played
999 shots faced
88 goals allowed
.912 sv%
Average shots per game 26

Georgiev:
66 games played
2119 shots faced
184 goals allowed
.913 sv%
Average shots per game 32

Compared to those other young goalies that were traded, he's in the bottom half of sv% while facing a few more shots per game. He;s a good looking young goalie, but he's not better than average compared to goalies in the same situation in the past.

 

[Derg12]

If Hank wants a Cup, he's got to go about getting one Ray Bourque style. Of all the guys in the league who deserve a shot at a cup, Hank is right there with Jumbo.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

again, with his numbers, his market comparables cant deem a high ask

i mean he is not close in his right mind to command or ask anything outrageous like $6 mil per with less than a full season of games on his resume. could he ask something like $5 per? sure i think thats reasonable for an arb ask and NYR probably offer something like $2-$2.5 which is why i think he logically settles around $4ish, which i dont think is outlandish

I don't know if it's outlandish, but it's not a contract I'd want to be paying. You have to consider the value of your assets and the salary cap. If I'm already paying Lundqvist, and no one's going to take his salary and give us anything back without retaining, why would I want to end up paying three salaries at the position when I can pay two?

 

[Blackjack]

Fatso, is that you? Enjoying the sister in law?

I absolutely love that you guys are still not over Marty Brodeur. Rent free.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

I don't know if it's outlandish, but it's not a contract I'd want to be paying. You have to consider the value of your assets and the salary cap. If I'm already paying Lundqvist, and no one's going to take his salary and give us anything back without retaining, why would I want to end up paying three salaries at the position when I can pay two?

thats fair. i guess you are looking at it holistically and im just focusing on what Georgiev is actually and justifiably worth. but to your point, yeah, throwing $13 mil over the wall in the cap for goalies next year doesnt make sense, but in Georgiev and his agents fair judgement, thats not their fault or their problem. they still will ask what hes worth and NYR can't exactly negotiate otherwise because they point to the other two goalies they are carrying, and an arbitrator will agree

 

[SA16]

Again, not trying to knock Geo...but:

Bernier:
58 games played
1435 shots faced
120 goals allowed
.916 sv%
Average shots per game 25

Talbot:
57 games played
1558 shots faced
110 goals allowed
.929 sv%
Average shots per game 27

Jones:
34 games played
807 shots faced
62 goals allowed
.921 sv%
Average shots per game 24

Raanta:
39 games played
999 shots faced
88 goals allowed
.912 sv%
Average shots per game 26

Georgiev:
66 games played
2119 shots faced
184 goals allowed
.913 sv%
Average shots per game 32

Compared to those other young goalies that were traded, he's in the bottom half of sv% while facing a few more shots per game. He;s a good looking young goalie, but he's not better than average compared to goalies in the same situation in the past.

League Average SV%/GAA

19-20 (Georgiev) .908/2.85
16-17 (Raanta) - .913/2.59
14-15 (Jones and Talbot) - .915/2.52
12-13 (Bernier) - .912/2.54

Teams score on a higher percentage of their shots now and thus more per game so any basic save percentage or GA analysis is obviously flawed. This also doesn't consider the quality of shots faced.